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TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS
(02-10-2022, 03:39 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yes. 

And, right or wrong, the Mavs clearly expect to have more luck getting something out of either Dinwiddie, Bertans or even both on the court in the meantime than they thought they could get out of KP. 

My biggest regret is that this didn't go down at the LAST TDL or over this past summer, now that we know what they were gong to have to settle for (the debate on KP's value is over).

You guys must all have Stockholm syndrome.

John Wall for Kristaps Porzingis

Wall money left:  $70M
Porzingis money left: $85M

You can easily build a trade around that and Wall´s contract expires in 2023 not in 2025.

Two days ago Harrell + KCP + Hachimura was not an acceptable trade return, but now Bertans + Dinwiddie are.

 This could very well be our starting five next year. 

Luka
Dinwiddie
Bullock
Bertans
Powell

 Thank God that 2023 Knicks pick has a top 10 protection. Big Grin
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(02-10-2022, 03:47 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Dimwiddie is terrible off the ball


He is shooting 34.4% in catch and shoot threes this year....40% last year (limited time), 37.3% the year before, and 36.8% the year before that.

KP is shooting 29.6% on catch and shoot threes this year.
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(02-10-2022, 03:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Whether we can see how right now or not...whether we even believe it's possible or not, I have to believe the Mavs feel it will be easier to transition out of those two, smaller bad deals next year than it was to turn KP into something good now.

I get this line of thinking but these guys aren't even expiring NEXT year so there won't be too much we can do still.

I honestly don't mind have Bertans here if he can round his shooting back into form but I don't see Dimwiddie fitting ANYWHERE on this roster.
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Wouldn´t be suprised if this is just setting up the next offseason. Bertans and Dinwindie (THJ as well) have contracts that are perfect salary matches for quite a few of the names we discussed (Turner, Grant, Brogdon and many more). With the 2022 first and maybe a future pick some of them should be within range.
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(02-10-2022, 03:52 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Two days ago Harrell + KCP + Hachimura was not an acceptable trade return, but now Bertans + Dinwiddie are.


It's not about "acceptable" because we don't even know what was "possible." 

Based on this return, I'd say your idea above was not possible. But, if it helps, I would've preferred it!
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(02-10-2022, 03:53 PM)Kammrath Wrote: He is shooting 34.4% in catch and shoot threes this year....40% last year (limited time), 37.3% the year before, and 36.8% the year before that.

KP is shooting 29.6% on catch and shoot threes this year.

I get that KP was garbage shooting the ball but those numbers you listed for Dimwiddie are not good catch and shoot numbers other than his limited time last year.  He needs the ball to be really productive, plain and simple.

I'm glad we found another guy who can dribble and pass but we needed more of that from the wing position, not our backcourt.
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[Image: twittter.png]
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Does getting Dinwiddie, mean they are out on Dragic?
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(02-10-2022, 03:53 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I get this line of thinking but these guys aren't even expiring NEXT year so there won't be too much we can do still.


I think it's a big assumption to think they'd have to be expiring to move them. 

I think maybe we're underestimating how much a worse a bad MAX deal is than just a normal bad contract. 

I don't WANT to defend this trade - I hate it. Just trying to accurately understand it. 

I think the thing we're missing is that the Mavs REALLY WANTED TO BE RID OF PORZINGIS. Start from that point, and then assume this was the best package they could get, and it starts to make sense. Both Dinwiddie and Bertans WILL play in the playoff rotation, so technically they moved up from 7 guys to 8.
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(02-10-2022, 03:56 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: Does getting Dinwiddie, mean they are out on Dragic?

Hopefully. Mavs don´t have the minutes for Brunson, Dragic and Dinwindie. Not to mention Green and Frank.
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(02-10-2022, 03:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I HATE Dinwiddie. HATE his game.
Could you elaborate on that?

What's done is done - those are our pieces now, so I'm interested to figure out how they gonna mesh with what we already have.

I for myself expext both to be looking at the very least better than their current value after the end of the season.
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(02-10-2022, 03:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Regrettably, this is probably true. 

I hope people don't think WAS is the only place they tried. 

Today is the first day after the terrible, awful KP era. It's not a fun place to be, but at least the healing can now begin.

Love you KL but I am not giving the Mavs any benefit of doubt. 

This is not about dumping KP but taking two equally bad contracts for lesser players ( I don’t care about the fit).  You cannot convince me that the Wiz were not desperate to move out of those two contracts either. 

KP if healthy did give us some hope for taking down some good teams in the playoffs when paired with a healthy Luka. Even if you don’t feel his game was a good fit here, you have to get a FRP from the Wiz or not budge. Why do the MBT and fans always act as if we are the only ones desperate to send off a player?  If this was the best they could do, just punt it to next off season and try again. No need to rush into this.
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(02-10-2022, 03:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Regrettably, this is probably true. 

I hope people don't think WAS is the only place they tried. 

Today is the first day after the terrible, awful KP era. It's not a fun place to be, but at least the healing can now begin.

What I don´t understand is that after 10 years of LITERALLY only terrible decisions with one exception (the Luka/Brunson draft). It´s not even hyberbole to say this LITERALLY. Every single trade, every single draft, every single free agency. It´s been awful. What in the world makes you think it will now suddenly get better? If the sun rises in the East for millions of years. What makes you think you´ll wake up tomorrow and it rises in the West? It´s still the same terrible owner.
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(02-10-2022, 03:55 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I get that KP was garbage shooting the ball but those numbers you listed for Dimwiddie are not good catch and shoot numbers other than his limited time last year.  He needs the ball to be really productive, plain and simple.


But KP the two years before was 38% and 36%. Point is this: KP was used as a "floor spacer" and his catch and shoot shooting is not much, if ANY, better than this guy you are saying cannot play off-ball. 

And Bertans?  In his 6 years in the NBA this is the only year he has shot BELOW 40% from three on catch and shoot. 5 of 6 years above 40% on catch and shoot threes. 

Point being? KP was not a good shooter, for all the hype. Dinwiddie isn't much worse (if at all) and Bertans is WAY better.
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(02-10-2022, 03:03 PM)cow Wrote: They aren't in the same hemisphere.  Jerry's problem isn't getting/retaining talent or having an attractive destination and the Cowboys actually draft really well now.

They just need a HC. McCarthy sucks.
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(02-10-2022, 03:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think it's a big assumption to think they'd have to be expiring to move them. 

I think maybe we're underestimating how much a worse a bad MAX deal is than just a normal bad contract. 

I don't WANT to defend this trade - I hate it. Just trying to accurately understand it. 

I think the thing we're missing is that the Mavs REALLY WANTED TO BE RID OF PORZINGIS. Start from that point, and then assume this was the best package they could get, and it starts to make sense. Both Dinwiddie and Bertans WILL play in the playoff rotation, so technically they moved up from 7 guys to 8.

I totally get that we needed to move KP and we are more flexible.  I've been on the "we need to trade KP sooner rather than later" train for a good while now.  I think that we can move Dimwiddie somewhat easily down the road but the concerns about what this means for Brunson are whats really bugging me.  If these contracts were for frontcourt and wing players I'd feel a lot better about everything.

Also, starting to wonder if this means Hardaway is out for the season.
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(02-10-2022, 04:00 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: They just need a HC. McCarthy sucks.

SP after his one year break.  Smile
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(02-10-2022, 03:58 PM)WillE Wrote: Could you elaborate on that?

What's done is done - those are our pieces now, so I'm interested to figure out how they gonna mesh with what we already have.


Start with a baseline of THJ in your mind.

Subtract most of the shooting ability. Add 30% better handling. Basketball IQ is about the same, only Dinwiddie is an initiator of the offense, so his inability to make great choices matters way more. He has a slightly worse pull up game than THJ, which matters, because he's supposed to be the guy handling the ball. He's at least as bad defensively as THJ, maybe worse. He's really into crypto, represents himself, and shows signs of being a little bit crazy (or just innovative as a thinker, depending on your POV). Basketball does not often seem like his primary love in life, at least to me. 

That's Dinwiddie.
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(02-10-2022, 04:00 PM)Kammrath Wrote: But KP the two years before was 38% and 36%. Point is this: KP was used as a "floor spacer" and his catch and shoot shooting is not much, if ANY, better than this guy you are saying cannot play off-ball. 

And Bertans?  In his 6 years in the NBA this is the only year he has shot BELOW 40% from three on catch and shoot. 5 of 6 years above 40% on catch and shoot threes. 

Point being? KP was not a good shooter, for all the hype. Dinwiddie isn't much worse (if at all) and Bertans is WAY better.

These are all fair points.  I actually think Bertans will end up looking really good here (on one end of the floor at least).

I obviously want Dimwiddie to prove me wrong and I really enjoyed him when he was in Brooklyn and got to see him a little here in Boulder when he was at CU, maybe he'll shoot just fine and I'll happily eat crow.  None of it makes me feel ok about Brunson's future here right now.
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(02-10-2022, 03:58 PM)WillE Wrote: Could you elaborate on that?

What's done is done - those are our pieces now, so I'm interested to figure out how they gonna mesh with what we already have.

I for myself expext both to be looking at the very least better than their current value after the end of the season.

Like someone else said, he's Russell Westbrook without the athleticism.
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