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MISSING: Mavsluvr (his last picture)
#81
POSTING UPDATE

I am posting this update on leaving the board for anyone who still might care about why that happened (and I’m not saying anyone should!).


PREAMBLE

I had hoped to be the old soldier who just faded quietly away after the recent controversy on the board, but some of the people who have reached out to me have suggested that the posters who are disappointed by the disappearance of the recaps might be “owed an explanation,” and their case seemed reasonable. 

I wanted to wait a week or two for any intense emotions (including mine) to cool down some, and I think enough time has elapsed now. I do want to emphasize that my purpose in offering these thoughts is not to continue any dispute, or even constitute a basis for further discussion, but rather to let my friends know that I didn’t reach the decision lightly, and to give them a serious, thorough review on what the thought process was and assure them that no part of it was about them. 

TL;DR.  I had grown tired of being the subject of what I regarded as long-continuing abusive posts that showed no sign of letting up. It appeared to me that the board “government” doubled down on allowing this to continue by denying that it was happening. Or, that maybe they honestly believed that he was right, in which case, there was nothing left for me to say. Be that as it may, I didn’t have the spirit left for continuing to try to post energy-consuming articles like recaps, and took Kenny Rogers’ advice to “know when to fold ‘em.” 

For anyone who wants the nitty-gritty, here is the long version. Warning: I have great respect for everyone on the board, but being open requires me to make a few comments about the board culture, and it might be perceived as stepping on a few toes. It is deeply distasteful to me to complain about other posters (even ones who complain about me), so I’ll try to make this explanation as neutral as possible. 


HOW WE GOT HERE

After the debacle in the Denver game thread, I did sit down to try to write the recaps in the following couple of games, but it seemed like a pointless and masochistic enterprise, and I just couldn’t make myself do it.

My decision was not only about that particular thread. In truth, I had been considering dialing back on posting here for a while, as it had gotten more and more grating to make the effort to write good posts, only to face the constant jabs. My plan had been to avoid saying anything, finish the season out, and then assess whether it seemed worth it to continue. But when any chance to resolve the issue in a discreet, non-confrontational way vanished, it seemed foolish to keep putting myself through this. 

Believe it or not, game recaps, podcast/article summaries, and such didn’t just magically flow out of my computer. It actually took summoning up a substantial degree of emotional and intellectual energy to try to always come up with something that was substantive enough to be interesting and also reasonably fun to read. (I realize that I probably fell short many times, but the point is that it always involved mustering a substantial effort to do the best I could at the time.) In the words of Gordon Lightfoot, "I don't know where we went wrong, but the feeling's gone and I just can't get it back."


THE “LAST-STRAW” THREAD

Although my decision was not based just on the Denver recap thread, it serves as well as anything as an illustrative example of some elements of the culture that left me surprised and disappointed.

Refusing to acknowledge that certain members’ nasty posts are abusive. 

For example, the statements of the poster in the referenced recap thread were summed up as a “polite request,” for reasons I doubt if I will ever understand. Among other things, the poster in question:

—  called me a “condescending, narcissistic gas-lighter;”

—  accused me of being “completely lacking in reading comprehension” and/or a “troll;”

—  lied about me representing myself as Mark Followill, and used that lie as a basis for suggesting that I considered myself exempt from the rules; and, 

—  threatened to kick me off the board if I said anything else that fit into some nebulous, undefined concept of trolling.

I honestly didn’t get why these comments could have possibly considered polite or respectful, while a statement supporting the idea that Luka could help an NBA team was apparently beyond the pale. Objectively speaking, I didn’t see anything remotely polite or respectful in any of the above statements; frankly, I considered all of those comments outrageous, and was stunned at the refusal to recognize that.  

Supporting threats of banishment by insisting they didn’t happen. 

When a mod gives an ultimatum to a poster to do X or leave the board, then ten times out of ten, that is perceived as a threat to ban the poster. I realize that, after the fact, the member here claimed that he was making that threat as an individual poster, but there was nothing in the post to suggest that, and I didn’t consider it relevant whether he secretly harbored an intent not to officially act on his threat.

But what if the threat really was made in his individual capacity? Imho, it was still highly inappropriate. If the rules have now evolved so that any individual poster gets to decide who can and can’t reply to him, can order another poster to leave the board, can tell other posters what they can and can’t post about, or that they can only respond to his posts in this or that way, I honestly never got the memo. As for whether I “should have known,” the practice of that much individual agency seemed inconsistent with the culture of any sports board I had ever been a part of (excepting, of course, posts that are clearly out of line). 

I emphasize this point because imho, threats to dismiss someone from the community are extremely harsh and should only ever be made in the case of serious misconduct.  If the board thinks that I indeed should have been threatened with being thrown out, then I don’t know why we couldn’t have just said that and explained it, instead of denying that it happened, when it clearly did.


To be more forthright than I would have preferred, it seemed to me that these denials that abusiveness and threats of banishment happened were, more than anything else, the sub rosa announcement of a policy, in the case of selected posters, of not admitting it when they might occasionally cross the line, or even throw their “mod weight” around inappropriately. Since I had gotten on the wrong side of what seemed to me to be one of those posters, that didn’t seem to bode well for my having a comfortable future here. 

I understand that it was “officially” decided that I could still post here (for now), but the fact that my status as a permitted poster was even in serious question was enough to make me realize how much my position here had deteriorated. Having to keep taking abuse, and having to keep fighting being tossed every time another “non-threat” arose just didn’t seem worth it. 

The lack of any discernible standards as to what is and isn’t  unacceptable trolling.  

I still don’t know what was wrong with the post that triggered all this. From my window, there was nothing antagonistic toward any particular poster in it; it was a lighthearted challenge to the idea that Luka doesn’t elevate his NBA rosters. I don’t get why challenging that idea was a problem. I have seen way worse comments here that did not attract any particular attention, including some of the ones the poster in question made in the noted thread. 

Sometimes posters (perhaps even including myself) do make controversial comments which seem to be actually baiting a spirited response. I don’t know why any of us should be able to forbid people from commenting on our own provocative statements. I guess now we know, but it’s nothing I conceived to be the rule at the time. 

In short, I don’t have any idea what constitutes unacceptable “trolling” on this board for a regular member any more. If something as mildly snarky as the post in question is now fair game for a poster being abused and threatened with dismissal, it seemed to me that, in fairness, we should have received notice to that effect, and that that standard should have been enforced consistently and predictably. Not that I am suggesting that should be the standard — I actually thought we were conducting a fan board, not high tea in the Queen’s garden, lol.  

I note that a couple of people insisted that there indeed was a clear and understandable rule, which was simply to be respectful of other posters. I respectfully have to call major BS on that. The fact, for example, that calling me a “condescending, narcissistic gas-lighter” was considered within bounds seemed to me to be case-in-point evidence that no such respectfulness rule existed in practice, or at the least, only certain posters were entitled to the benefit of it, and I was clearly not one of them. 


NO END IN SIGHT

For the reasons above stated, I became convinced that there was little or no possibility of a satisfactory resolution of this matter. 

Proposed resolutions

The few solutions proposed, while presumably well-intended, seemed to me to be more an official backing of the status quo than anything else, if you will pardon my bluntness. 

—  Kamm and I were forbidden to reply to each other. I didn’t know what that was supposed to solve. The pain for me was the same, whether the name-calling and accusations were contained in a post officially constituting a reply to me, or were simply positioned in an independent post. 

— The implicit suggestion that if another poster told me to leave, I should reply in kind, didn’t seem to be an answer. I didn’t want to be, and don’t ever want to be, that high-handed and rude. And it would be an empty threat anyway in my case, whereas it’s an actual threat when it comes from a moderator. The proposition that individual posters have the same authority on the board as the mods is simply not the case.

— A few people have suggested that I should have just moved past it, and I certainly wish I had, as to the offending thread. Unfortunately, moving past it in general sounds like a fine idea, even to me, on paper, but since this continues to be an ongoing issue, the option of putting it behind me didn’t exist. I surely could have kept sucking it up, if I could still have mustered the enthusiasm, but being someone’s personal punching bag isn’t the day at the beach that some might think it is, and after the “explosion,” I found that my emotional reserves in this respect had already eroded. It’s like water dripping on a stone — you think you’re not even noticing it, but after a while, you realize that it has just worn you down. I realize that many may feel that this situation shouldn’t have been that important to me, but in fact, posting here had become less and less enjoyable on that account, to the point where it eventually turned into a negative experience.

My own possible fault in these matters

—  I really don’t know how I had been “treating” Kamm for “the last several months” that he referenced. He clearly thought it was pretty bad. I would be very surprised if I had many posts replying to him at all, since, if I noticed a post was from him, my standard practice for some time had been not to engage with him, and many times to just quickly skim past his posts. 

I had/have no animus toward any poster, including him, just a growing sense of being more and more tired of dealing with this issue. In the case of the particular post we have been using as an example, I don’t remember noticing whether it was him I was replying to, but it certainly wasn’t intended to be the catalyst for a wholesale unravelling of the social fabric. 

I do acknowledge, however, that I had realized for a while that this particular poster had taken a singular dislike to me. It is possible that I was a little short or sharp with him on occasion, I don’t know. It is probably more likely that I responded to some of his posts with humor that he did not appreciate. The only times I actually remembered him asking me to do anything different were an occasion or two when he asked me to put him on ignore, which I took as so extreme as to be rhetorical. And maybe couching a couple of vague requests to “stop misunderstanding him" in what seemed to me a rude and pompous fashion, which I “moved on” from, since I didn’t know what he specifically meant and didn’t want to get into it with him. Whatever the case may be, if I hurt his feelings, I regret that, as being hurtful was never my intent. 

But I do know that I never leveled the kind of personal, over-the-top accusations that I was increasingly on the receiving end of, because that’s not the way I roll. In my view, I tried very hard to be “the bigger man” and ignore the attacks, hoping that we could peacefully co-exist. Sadly, the situation escalated wildly and showed every sign of getting worse, not better. It seemed the better part of valor just to bring it to a merciful close. 


ROLE OF THE MODS

I want to make a special point of saying that I did not blame the mods, most of whom I respect and admire. I also did not think that it was appropriate for me to ask them to intervene, even if I had thought they might have any such inclination (which I didn’t, and didn’t think they necessarily should have). 

The mods have difficult decisions to make. In any organization, some individuals may be so important that their running people off from time to time is just a necessary cost of getting to have them around. I get that. Or, maybe the powers that be really believed that the poster in question was right. It doesn’t matter. 

Whatever the reasons, I am sure that letting the current state of affairs continue made sense to them as being in the best interest of the board. I believe they were acting in good faith and didn’t mean anything personal, and it’s not my place to come here and argue with them about it. The board is bigger than any one poster, and if I was generating too much controversy, it may well have been for the best for me to move along. I, in turn, had to make the decision that was right for me in the circumstances.


SUMMATION

Anyway, if anyone is still reading by now, all I ever wanted in coming here was to talk about the Mavs, not to fight with other posters. The continuing prospect of having to constantly defend myself from personal attacks, continually try to make a case for why I should be allowed to post here, try to refrain from using satire or humor (which takes a lot of the joy out of writing), filter every sentence I write to try to anticipate whether it is something that another poster might find a way to be offended about, etc., left me drained of energy for it.

In any event, I suppose all of the above lengthy screed is more than anyone really wanted to know, and is probably neither here nor there at this point. I hate having to air all this dirty laundry. I am sure various people will disagree with parts or all of it, and I wish those who do a long and happy life. Long story short, I used to look forward to coming here and posting, but after all this, I just lost the requisite enthusiasm for it. Who knows, life is long, and maybe in some distant and re-imagined future I will want to join the party again. 

A part of me wishes I didn’t feel this way, because posting here was something I enjoyed, and I loved interacting with the other posters. But at the end of the day, the heart wants what it wants, and in this case, it was to not continue making myself miserable by remaining in what, for me, had become a toxic and bewildering situation. 

Thanks to all the posters who reached out in support, privately or on the board. I realize this isn’t the result you hoped for, and I honestly am sorry about that, but hopefully, whether you agree with me or not, you can at least understand my reluctant conclusion that there was just no other way out of all this continuing unpleasantness. I don’t think it is really that big of a deal, in the big picture. I tried to make the recaps special, but since we’re getting down to brass tacks, I have to admit that game recaps are easily available all over the internet. To those posters who are just as glad to see the back of me, congratulations then, lol, and no hard feelings. 

I encourage the people posting here to continue. There are a lot of people with good basketball minds who have interesting things to say here. "Stuff happens" in every board and organization, and I just found myself in a position where I couldn’t get out of the way of it. At the risk of coming across like Mrs. Lincoln complimenting the play, I still think it is the best fan board I ever came across, notwithstanding my own individual circumstance, and I hope that it will remain so. 

Enjoyed talking hoops with everyone. All the best. Go Mavs!

mavsluvr
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#82
Is @"omahen" done, too? I haven't seen him around for roughly the same period of time.
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#83
I'll definitely miss the @mavsluvr posts, especially the recaps. Always enjoyed his perspective.

I was hoping we'd get the privilege of more of those, but I understand and wish him the best.
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#84
(01-14-2022, 06:27 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: I'll definitely miss the @mavsluvr posts, especially the recaps. Always enjoyed his perspective.

I was hoping we'd get the privilege of more of those, but I understand and wish him the best.

No doubt. He was one of our best. Hopefully, he'll change his mind soon. 

Honestly, I think he'll miss me too much to stay away. How could he not??!
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#85
(01-14-2022, 06:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: No doubt. He was one of our best. Hopefully, he'll change his mind soon. 

Honestly, I think he'll miss me too much to stay away. How could he not??!

This post is nothing but truth!
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#86
@"mavsluvr" Here's an idea: 

Would need to run this by the others, but what if you got my Mod spot and could address some of these concerns in a more official capacity? I would happily step aside if it meant there was a way to get past all of this.
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#87
Wow, looks like I screwed up and ran off an important member of the community. I should definitely be the one to step down!! @"mavsluvr" can have my spot.
Not very astute ^^^^
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#88
(01-14-2022, 07:09 PM)fifteenth Wrote: Wow, looks like I screwed up and ran off an important member of the community. I should definitely be the one to step down!! @"mavsluvr" can have my spot.

Nah, you were just trying to be the glue guy, like you always do. You can DFS your way onto my team any day, pal!
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#89
Wow...I am sorry to read this.  I must have missed a lot of this.   I have really enjoyed this board.   I have been on other boards in the past...some better than others.    But I have found this board very active, really knowledgeable and generally respectful.   I am sorry to see two good  being caught up in this.  I hope Omahen is also not caught up in this as well.   I think he is another valued poster.  

We all post here because we love the Mavs.   But we should all do things in our free time that brings us joy.   I am sorry to hear some have not been having a fun time discussing our Mavs.
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#90
(01-14-2022, 05:58 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: The lack of any discernible standards as to what is and isn’t  unacceptable trolling.  

I still don’t know what was wrong with the post that triggered all this. From my window, there was nothing antagonistic toward any particular poster in it; it was a lighthearted challenge to the idea that Luka doesn’t elevate his NBA rosters. I don’t get why challenging that idea was a problem. I have seen way worse comments here that did not attract any particular attention, including some of the ones the poster in question made in the noted thread. 

Sometimes posters (perhaps even including myself) do make controversial comments which seem to be actually baiting a spirited response. I don’t know why any of us should be able to forbid people from commenting on our own provocative statements. I guess now we know, but it’s nothing I conceived to be the rule at the time. 

In short, I don’t have any idea what constitutes unacceptable “trolling” on this board for a regular member any more. If something as mildly snarky as the post in question is now fair game for a poster being abused and threatened with dismissal, it seemed to me that, in fairness, we should have received notice to that effect, and that that standard should have been enforced consistently and predictably. Not that I am suggesting that should be the standard — I actually thought we were conducting a fan board, not high tea in the Queen’s garden, lol.  

I note that a couple of people insisted that there indeed was a clear and understandable rule, which was simply to be respectful of other posters. I respectfully have to call major BS on that. The fact, for example, that calling me a “condescending, narcissistic gas-lighter” was considered within bounds seemed to me to be case-in-point evidence that no such respectfulness rule existed in practice, or at the least, only certain posters were entitled to the benefit of it, and I was clearly not one of them. 


That´s the part that should lead to some changes in the future. I already tried to highlight this a few days ago. Agree with every single word. If light banter and snarkiness aren´t allowed it needs to be enforced all the time (I don´t think it should). Otherwise we are creating double standards.
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#91
Mavsluvr.  Please continue to post whenever you feel like it. Doesn’t have to be game recaps or nothing.  As you said those things and the other things that you post take a lot of time and when one puts a lot of energy into something it is easier to snap too at any perceived, correctly or incorrectly, slighting. 

In this particular instance, I can see both sides since I was also surprised by some of your responses too wrt Luka.  You were resorting to hyperboles to dismiss negatives directed at Luka which seemed very different from your usual posts  I too was a recipient of a couple of those from you. Kamm snapped eventually at that though he should have been careful on how he responded. If a mod asks someone to leave, and other mods stay silent, it can hurt more. You are correct. What should have happened is what Kamm does when two posters get into it. When cow and I got into our nonsense ( and cow owes me an apology now that I was correct about Josh Green Smile), Kamm stepped in and deleted all our posts as it was adding no value and gave us both a warning . While I felt upset that I was getting a double T for no reason (just as cow too might have felt that he was the victim), it was the correct decision and things cooled down immediately. I would suggest that be the way when two folks start getting into it on a thread going forward. Even if one of those folks is a mod. It adds no value and the rest of the folks are probably stunned and helpless just being in the verbal crossfire. Another mod should step in and delete the posts.  If a poster truly deserves banning, most of us can see that anyway for days.  

Anyway, I respect your decision to step away, but Kamm is a good guy too and both of you are great posters. Please feel free to come back anytime.  Hopefully in the very near future.
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#92
(01-14-2022, 05:58 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: called me a “condescending, narcissistic gas-lighter;”


For the record, my actual words:

Quote:"I find your interactions with me to be narcissistic, condescending, filled with gaslighting, and lacking in respect, again almost all centered around not engaging with my actual arguments and positions but twisting them into something they are not. I am not saying this is done with everyone (and with most posters you are great and respectful in your interactions and add a lot to this board). But the way I am interacted with, especially going back to November (though a couple times before that as well) are not something I am willing to put up with and it is not acceptable."


I did not claim mavsluvr was these things (i.e. "a gas-lighter"), instead I said the specific interactions with me came across that way. HUGE difference. For instance, anyone can be or come across as condescending in certain interactions but that does not make them a "condescending person" (which I never claimed). And also made it clear that mavsluvr was actually respectful and great with most posters. 


(01-14-2022, 05:58 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: accused me of being “completely lacking in reading comprehension” and/or a “troll;”

lied about me representing myself as Mark Followill, and used that lie as a basis for suggesting that I considered myself exempt from the rules; and,

—  threatened to kick me off the board if I said anything else that fit into some nebulous, undefined concept of trolling.


For the record, my actual words:

Quote:"One of two things is happening here:

1) Your reading comprehension of anything I post is completely lacking.

2) You are trolling me.

If it is the first, please ask me questions or don't comment on my posts.

If it is the second, please stop it or leave the board. Trolling is not welcome here. Just because you pretend to be Followill does not make you exempt from the rules all the rest of us follow."

I suggested that one of two possible things was happening. The first was the possibility that the comprehension of my posts (not everyone's, but mine) was lacking. OR that my posts were understood and I was being "trolled." The dictionary definition of "trolling" is: "to antagonize (others) online." So my belief was that I was either being misunderstood in fundamental ways OR I was being purposely antagonized. I then laid out possible ways forward based on what was happening (which I still don't know). That 1) I be asked questions OR be left alone because the misunderstandings were so frequent or 2) that the purposeful antagonizing stop. I also suggested that the poster leave on their own accord if they would not respect my request. I in no way "threatened" to kick them off the board. 


This is all a very unfortunate ending. I did not and still do not want @"mavsluvr" to leave. And my actual words make that very clear. I just wanted my simple request to be respected and honored. I just didn't want to be repeatedly misrepresented and misquoted.
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#93
ML is an amazing poster, and his absence is felt! Luvr was treated horribly in a personal-manner by defending Luka in a non-personal manner. And understandably taking a break when treated as such. An apology is deserved to be be given to him, and if not provided, then support by all other posters could hopefully help getting him back to the forum. He deserves this.
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#94
Thanks for all your time and efforts ML, hope you change your mind in the future.
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#95
My 2 cents. I think what is being talked about is The Ol' Boy Network. Sometimes the powers-that-be don't realize that it's in place or that they're a part of it. Years ago I was banned from a particular Mavs forum for a period of time for, what I thought, was defending myself by giving back exactly as I was being given. I was banned, those doing the giving were not. I haven't been back to that forum since. This was back in the days of the Josh Howard draft, for a point of reference. Disagreement/comments revolving around that. The Ol' Boys on THAT forum didn't see any fault/double-standard. Hope that's not the case here. Sometimes it's hard to see the forest with all those trees in the way.
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#96
(01-14-2022, 07:33 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: That´s the part that should lead to some changes in the future. I already tried to highlight this a few days ago. Agree with every single word. If light banter and snarkiness aren´t allowed it needs to be enforced all the time (I don´t think it should). Otherwise we are creating double standards.

Agree. ML did not attack anyone in person. He simply disagreed with the opinion that Luka can't play with great NBA players. Which is what triggered everything. The particular opinion is irrelevant, whether it is this or that - as long the posts are opinion-based. We should all be allowed to have opinions and disagree with others. What is RELEVANT is that ML stated his own opinion in a normal non-personal manner. It was a pure opinion-based post - exactly the way our interactions should occur.

However, all of sudden, he was attacked in a highly personal-directed manner. A rule on the forum should be, as I believe it is on most forums, that personal attacks should be prohibited.

If this does not lead to an official apology, and in case ML doesn't return, I will definitely stop posting and reading this forum as well. What this overall tells me is that we can get attacked in personal manner on this forum for having certain opinions (such as those favouring Luka at the moment, although this is highly irrelevant - it is the concept that is the important). I agree with many posters stating that having single standards is important. No personal-based attacks. Stick to opinion-based basketball posts as ML did.
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#97
Count me in as one of those who would like Mavsluvr to come back and interact with all, or most, of the fine posters on this forum.  I also got crosswise once with another poster and can understand how he feels.  It took me a week or two before I was comfortable again.  And I still don't like that certain poster, but I will interact with him if/when he posts something decent.   So...ML...I hope to see you back one day...soon.
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#98
(01-15-2022, 10:13 AM)burekemde Wrote: Agree. ML did not attack anyone in person. He simply disagreed with the opinion that Luka can't play with great NBA players. Which is what triggered everything. The particular opinion is irrelevant, whether it is this or that - as long the posts are opinion-based. We should all be allowed to have opinions and disagree with others. What is RELEVANT is that ML stated his own opinion in a normal non-personal manner. It was a pure opinion-based post - exactly the way our interactions should occur.

However, all of sudden, he was attacked in a highly personal-directed manner. A rule on the forum should be, as I believe it is on most forums, that personal attacks should be prohibited. 

If this does not lead to an official apology, and in case ML doesn't return, I will definitely stop posting and reading this forum as well. What this overall tells me is that we can get attacked in personal manner on this forum for having certain opinions (such as those favouring Luka at the moment, although this is highly irrelevant - it is the concept that is the important). I agree with many posters stating that having single standards is important. No personal-based attacks. Stick to opinion-based basketball posts as ML did.

I don’t think there has been any issues with disagreeing with folks. I have disagreed, sometimes vehemently, with Kamm going back to previous boards. I have never felt under any threat. 

What happened here is mavsluvr got annoyed at what he felt were unfair attacks on Luka, and did on a very few occasions engage in sarcastic hyperbole though the people criticizing Luka never said anything like that ( for eg your statement that Luka couldn’t play with great players. Not one poster has said that). 
At the same time it was not every post and most of mavsluvr’s posts were as usual respectfu and added value. 

It is just that Kamm too snapped finally at one of those hyperbolic misrepresentations. To me the whole thing was par for the course on a message board. Things happen and I understand why Kamm snapped. 

Where I disagree with Kamm, and it comes across p again in his latest clarification, is that regardless of nuances, when a mod tells someone they can leave a board, it will be perceived differently and garner more attention than any words before or after that. Intended or not, it does come across as a veiled threat. Those words certainly caught my attention and so for someone who has contributed so much to this board like mavsluvr has, you can see why he suddenly felt alone as no other mod stepped in to clarify or take control. 

Again, I will go to bat for Kamm as I have had many interactions with him and he certainly doesn’t try to censor differing opinions. However on the net where words used a bit casually can easily be misinterpreted one has to be always careful.

Hey we won against the currrent flavor of the month.  Let’s all get back to discussing that and looking forward to mavsluvr, Kamm and everyone else continuing with their great posts even if we disagree or get annoyed sometimes with opinions that don’t match ours. Cheers.
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#99
(01-15-2022, 12:45 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: Where I disagree with Kamm, and it comes across p again in his latest clarification, is that regardless of nuances, when a mod tells someone they can leave a board, it will be perceived differently and garner more attention than any words before or after that. Intended or not, it does come across as a veiled threat. Those words certainly caught my attention and so for someone who has contributed so much to this board like mavsluvr has, you can see why he suddenly felt alone as no other mod stepped in to clarify or take control. 


I 100% respect this take. @"fifteenth" has also privately shared the same with me. 

I will never use the language of "leave" again in my discourse here. I have learned my lesson on the illocutionary force of that word and I repent of using it. 

I have repeatedly made as clear as possible that my goal was never to have @"mavsluvr" leave. And that still isn't my goal. And I have also tried to make clear that I have no real power to ban someone. I would NEVER ban someone (and I never have) and even if I did, the other mods would just undo it.
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I also apologize for not trying to navigate that instance. In my head I was being told to say something, but I couldn’t figure out the right words to calm the situation down and be impartial to both posters. I absolutely LOVE both posters contributions to this community and didn’t want to screw up and say something wrong to either. 

From my seat I saw what HF said (GREAT post by the way) too. There was fault on both sides and I thought less of the “or you can leave (on your own accord, not by me banning you)”. That’s how I read the statement, and seems how Kamm meant it. I can see how it put mavsluvr on an island though.

Anyway, for my part in this, I apologize to both involved and the forum. I think in the future we should probably just ask the posters to take it to pm’s if you want to continue with this.
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