MISSING: Mavsluvr (his last picture)

[KillerLeft]

Is the THT debate already settled?

I kind of thought it was settled the other way.

[cow]

I kind of thought it was settled the other way.

[fifteenth]

Is the THT debate already settled?

THT wouldn't work. Mavs catering wouldn't be able to feed him and Luka both!!!

[dirkfansince1998]

I want to see a Frank N vs THT debate. With @"Kammrath" and @"cow" as the main acts.

[cow]

I want to see a Frank N vs THT debate. With @"Kammrath" and @"cow" as the main acts.

Bees don't waste their time explaining to flies why honey is better than shit.

[Kammrath]

Bees don't waste their time explaining to flies why honey is better than shit.

[burekemde]

That's the thing. What you put in quotes was never said by me and was never my opinion.

What I have taken issue with repeatedly is my actual opinion being misrepresented in blatant ways (what I am referring to when I say "strawman"). My opinion on Luka is nothing like it has been characterized to be in these interactions. And when I have tried to clarify I have not been listened to.

That is all perfectly fine. We misunderstand our opinions all the time, this is part of posting and exchanging opinions and ideas. Perhaps ML misunderstood your point, just like I do. Perhaps you misunderstand his opinions. That part is not the core of what I tried to illustrate.

Your initial Post 1 was opinion-based and a very good post (despite that I would not agree to its opinions). ML's Post 2 was also opinion based. Your post 3 however was all of sudden personal, alone because post 2 disagreed. What I try to illustrate is the transition from opinion-based to personal-based text. 

I am not bringing this up to escalate the situation. On the contrary, my hope is that this could potentially help realise the sudden transition from opinions to personal text. I have illustrated the point now and will not attempt further, with the hope this will contribute to a constructive outcome. I certainly do enjoy your all other contributions to the forum even when not agreeing to the statements. It's all part of challenging each others views.

[Kammrath]

That is all perfectly fine. We misunderstand our opinions all the time, this is part of posting and exchanging opinions and ideas. Perhaps ML misunderstood your point, just like I do. Perhaps you misunderstand his opinions. That part is not the core of what I tried to illustrate.

Your initial Post 1 was opinion-based and a very good post (despite that I would not agree to its opinions). ML's Post 2 was also opinion based. Your post 3 however was all of sudden personal, alone because post 2 disagreed. What I try to illustrate is the transition from opinion-based to personal-based text. 

I am not bringing this up to escalate the situation. On the contrary, my hope is that this could potentially help realise the sudden transition from opinions to personal text. I have illustrated the point now and will attempt further, with the hope this will contribute to a constructive outcome. I certainly do enjoy your all other contributions to the forum even when not agreeing to the statements. It's all part of challenging each others views.

Yes, absolutely, we will misunderstand each other. No question that will happen. And when it does we need to listen to each other and allow ourselves to be corrected in our misunderstandings.

But again, this was a pattern that literally went back months. My opinions (especially on Luka) were being repeatedly portrayed in a false way. I had much, much more patience the first, second, third, etc. times. But I eventually got exhausted and asked to be left alone, because no matter how hard I tried to explain myself, I was met with what felt to me like condescension and a refusal to listen to my actual nuanced stance. There is a LOT more I could say about the specific dynamics, but I do not believe it would be helpful.

[burekemde]

Yes, absolutely, we will misunderstand each other. No question that will happen. And when it does we need to listen to each other and allow ourselves to be corrected in our misunderstandings.

But again, this was a pattern that literally went back months. My opinions (especially on Luka) were being repeatedly portrayed in a false way. I had much, much more patience the first, second, third, etc. times. But I eventually got exhausted and asked to be left alone, because no matter how hard I tried to explain myself, I was met with what felt to me like condescension and a refusal to listen to my actual nuanced stance. There is a LOT more I could say about the specific dynamics, but I do not believe it would be helpful.

When it happens repeated times, the misunderstandings, I think I can definitely visualize for me this disseapointment and a sensation of not being understood and heard continuously. I can understand the exhaustion at this point. Most likely it's a misunderstanding (before, as well as now) from both sides, as it can be really difficult to understand each others views, especially when these views are of opposing nature. The best in that case are two options, either to not reply further, or reply and continue the debate in an opinion-based manner. Asking the other part not to reply further is a difficult and a risky strategy, as it can be very hard to remember who one replies to. I believe ML also wrote that, and I also am of the similar nature in fact, as most of the times when I reply I actually reply on posts/opinions and don't even know/look up who I am replying to (not always, but for large part). I read an opinion and press reply without even looking up the name of the poster. If someone asked me not to reply in future, I would have most likely replied at some point of time, as this is behaviour of being focused on opinions and not looking up the names, I most likely never can change.

The best is probably not to reply at all if one doesn't want a continuation of a debate and it will quickly fade away. Its the strategy I use when I can see that a conversation is not leading anywhere at this moment. Its frustrating for me not to get the last word however.

It boiled over for you in that post 3. This is fine and it can happen for everyone, its part of basketball. It also boils over for Luka in almost every game, and its not good, and I always try to picture that and understand what must be going on in his mind when he confronts the refs and try to see it from a positive standpoint. It is most likely beneficial to admit that its not acceptable to transition posts over in personal way and the other part will most likely admit and respect that. I am trying to put my self in MLs position after post 3, and it certainly must have been bad to read that. I do also try to position myself in your place after post 2 if that disagreement of opinion happened many times before, and I do understand the frustration of no progress in understanding.

The thing is that the Mavs needs both of you, hopefully this will all end well. Many of these opposing views is also a large part of basketball teams and players and coaches - 99.99% stuff my guess is we never hear about and is dealt internally. Its the same thing we experience here. Key is keep continuing the debate and trying understand each other. And if too much and it leads nowhere in understanding, taking some breaks from replying, even if the other replies and letting it fade away. Keep up the great work Kamm!

[BackToSquareOne]

This is a great point. For example we had a pretty big argument in the discord on Sunday that made this whole Kamm/Mavsluvr thing look like a nothing burger. Things got pretty chippy over there.

We did? I don't even remember it. :lol:

Probably was over which rule the Mavs should teach Moses next once he gets "3 seconds" and "basket interference" down pat.

[BasketballJones41]

We did? I don't even remember it. :lol:

Probably was over which rule the Mavs should teach Moses next once he gets "3 seconds" and "basket interference" down pat.

Lol. No it was actually about the Luka criticisms and whether they were getting ridiculous and over-the-top or not. Opinions were strong and emotions ran high. Discussing Moses might’ve been more productive.

[fifteenth]

What's Discord?

[dirkfansince1998]

We did? I don't even remember it. :lol:

Probably was over which rule the Mavs should teach Moses next once he gets "3 seconds" and "basket interference" down pat.

Can we ban @"BackToSquareOne" for slander. He is a non believer. The prophet shall not be questioned 

[BackToSquareOne]

Can we ban @"BackToSquareOne" for slander. He is a non believer. The phropet shall not be questioned 

I'm the echt-Moses believer. Search my posts. But he .. lacks certain useful pieces of information .. that could turn him into a greater, even sea-parting, phropet.

---

Lol. No it was actually about the Luka criticisms and whether they were getting ridiculous and over-the-top or not. Opinions were strong and emotions ran high. Discussing Moses might’ve been more productive.

Oh that. Yeah. Trade Luka, build around JB & KP. ldo. I don't know why that's controversial. Luka's still taking 8 3ptA/game and making 31.x%  - right on line with all of his non-empty-area years stats. If he hasn't developed after 4 years there's really no hope. Maybe there were one or two doubters, but I'm sure they ended up convinced.

[BackToSquareOne]

What's Discord?

Search on your search-engine site for "Hail Eris!" 

[BackToSquareOne]

fwiw, I did some research (= lurked medium term) on a number of Mavs forums before signing up. This is by far the most sophisticated (overall) in terms of discussion (on the forum - ofc in the in game takes on discord are great, but inevitably not usually deep), and by far the least toxic amongst any I found. 

now, ok, the competition may not make that quite the complement it seems .. but .. let's rock with it anyway.

[fifteenth]

Next mavsluvr post everyone on the forum at that moment gets two free Jack-in-the-Box tacos!

It's like waiting for the team to score 100 back in the day.

Moses says, "let my people eat!"

[SleepingHero]

I'm still waiting for the "cow was right" WCS apology thread.  And let's just hope everyone forgets how much I loved Bagley.

At least I can sleep at night being right about Millsap, Will The Thrill and THT.

All I'm saying is I was anti-WCS 13 games after the trade was made and was dumbfounded Donnie gave him a contract.

[cow]

All I'm saying is I was anti-WCS 13 games after the trade was made and was dumbfounded Donnie gave him a contract.

I called it before he played in one game.  Even worse was resigning him.  I still remember the +/- comparisons to Maxi after WCS had one good half of play.

[dirkfansince1998]

I called it before he played in one game.  Even worse was resigning him.  I still remember the +/- comparisons to Maxi after WCS had one good half of play.

Don´t remind me. Burke, WCS and Terry. MLE gone.