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MISSING: Mavsluvr (his last picture)
#21
Well the rules are the rules I guess. 

Could still be a chance for you to reflect on the way you handle conflict, kamm, if you get riled up on a message board and feel "attacked" and "trolled" when, as far as I can tell, nobody shares your recollection of the events. I certainly don't.

I don't mean this in any way condescending or mean, just some honest advice. If you think you managed this well, fair enough, who am I to lecture you. But if there is something to improve along the way, all the better.
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#22
(01-11-2022, 09:12 AM)meistermatze Wrote: Well the rules are the rules I guess. 


Do you think it is unreasonable for posters to respect the boundaries of others? 

As a parallel, do you think it is unreasonable that if you are in a bar and someone touches you and you ask them to stop, that they should stop?


The mods are always open to revisiting and taking input on how we try to cultivate a healthy culture on this board.
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#23
(01-11-2022, 01:48 AM)meistermatze Wrote: However, I have to disagree with your stance: Like Dahl explained, I don't think mavsluvr was "trolling" per se.


I never said that mavslurv was trolling Kam. In fact, I don't think he was. I think mavsluvr gets frustrated by Kam's posts about Luka and responds in that frustration by exagerating and/or strawmanning what Kam posts. Kam doesn't like it and asked him to stop. 


(01-11-2022, 01:48 AM)meistermatze Wrote: In the real world "please stop, your words are making me feel bad" is not the way to progress in any way shape or form.


Pal, this just isn't true at all!!
Not very astute ^^^^
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#24
(01-11-2022, 09:06 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: https://www.mavsboard.com/showthread.php?tid=1173

Curious what this link was too.  Says the thread doesn't exist.
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#25
(01-11-2022, 11:57 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Curious what this link was too.  Says the thread doesn't exist.

It was the old thread between fifteenth and jesusshuttlesworth82 and both of them airing their grievances. I can restore the thread if you're curious but all that's there is just fif telling JS82 don't be rude.

Let me know if you want to see it. It will be in the troll cave.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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#26
(01-10-2022, 04:40 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: Agreed, ML and Kamm are both outstanding posters.  Luka and Djokovic?  Nice.  I guess Kamm has to be the tennis star in this comparision?  Big Grin 

I think the criticism and the defense of Luka are both very valid too in terms of the substance of the discussion.  Luka's shooting numbers, turrible, but his impact on the game as a triple double threat is bonafide.  If he shoots better with the rest of the Mavs roster taking on J. Kidd's style, this team could make some real noise. 

Agree. I was comparing Luvr to both Luka/Djokovic, the sport elite from our Balkans, that I know well Smile I wanted to illustrate this as a general concept that people that are doing something really well, are often the subject to stronger than usual opinions and misinterpretations. 

I hope ML will be back on this board, and that he will receive an apology which he deserves. I don't see anything wrong in what he wrote, and he did not agree to a statement and he was never personal, last mentioned critical to avoid on a forum. If that was wrong, what Luvr wrote, then I'm also really afraid myself in future here to express different opinions and praise Luka, as ML did, which could also make me consider continuing. I totally agree Dahl that Luka's 3pt shooting at this moment is below his standard and hope he will improve it.
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#27
(01-11-2022, 12:02 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: It was the old thread between fifteenth and jesusshuttlesworth82 and both of them airing their grievances. I can restore the thread if you're curious but all that's there is just fif telling JS82 don't be rude.

Let me know if you want to see it. It will be in the troll cave.

Oh thank you.  I'm all good.  Just a little curious is all.
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#28
(01-11-2022, 12:02 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: It was the old thread between fifteenth and jesusshuttlesworth82 and both of them airing their grievances. I can restore the thread if you're curious but all that's there is just fif telling JS82 don't be rude.

Let me know if you want to see it. It will be in the troll cave.

I guess the JS82 thing was offered up as an example of one of the few times mods have had to take action on someone attacking posters. JS was verbally attacking multiple posters, and wouldn't stop. 

To be clear, just so there is no confusion. No moderation was performed in the Kam/mavsluvr conversation!!! And none was needed. Kam and mavsluvr had a conversation between two posters about their own interactions. Each had said stuff that the bothered the other person. It happens. 

I'll offer this as well: Mods are just posters who help organize the board, detete spammers, and keep posters from attacking other posters. And that's especially true in the case of Mavsboard. 

Maybe it was just me, but I viewed it that way at Fish's place too. Mac and I got sideways quite a few times. I was out of line quite a few times, and he used his mod powers as he saw fit. But if Mak had ever said "leave" to me I would have laughed and said, "you leave". I felt I had as much ownership of the forum as he did just because I was a participant. I mean, ultimately, he was just another dude with a keyboard....AND SO WAS I...just another dude with a keyboard.

Point being, I'm still just another dude with a keyboard. So is Kam. So is Clutch, Killer, IGT, SH. We're not special. Everyone else has just as much ownership of this forum as the people listed in the previous sentence. mavsuluvr has just as much ownership of this place as Kam.

When the thing happened with Kam and mavsluvr I was the only one that claimed to do any "modding". And all I did was ask both of them to please move on and not have to have the last word. 

I'd still repeat the same encrouagement to each of those guys. 

For Kam, thanks for not continuing with the back and forth!

For mavsluvr, EVERYONE loves your contribution and wants you here. Please take Kam's words as a statement from a poster who was upset by y'alls interaction and not as a request from the Mods. It would be sad for everyone to miss out on friendship with you and on your contributions to the community based on a dust up you had with one poster. Please stay and hang out with us. And if you need to discuss any frustration or feel that we handled this all wrong (which is always possible), then PM me, or heck, tell us in this thread. We can hash it out together.
Not very astute ^^^^
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#29
(01-11-2022, 12:47 PM)fifteenth Wrote: Point being, I'm still just another dude with a keyboard. So is Kam. So is Clutch, Killer, IGT, SH. We're not special. Everyone else has just as much ownership of this forum as the people listed in the previous sentence. mavsuluvr has just as much ownership of this place as Kam.


Just want to reiterate this. 

This is a co-op board. We're all in this together. I know I'm just as disappointed as everyone else when mavsluvr decided to go on a break. I truly hope he comes back soon.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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#30
(01-11-2022, 08:52 AM)Kammrath Wrote: When the mods huddled over two years ago to come up with rules we decided on something very simple as the heart of this new (transplanted) community: "Be respectful." (https://www.mavsboard.com/announcements.php?aid=3)

The dictionary definition of respect: "due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others."

We desired this to be a board and community of adults--people who have regard for and honor the boundaries of others. Adults listen to and respect the boundaries requested and put in place by others ("no means no" when dealing with adults being respectful with each other). Adults operating with respect have no need of "block" or "ignore" functions or needing to have mods intervene, because they can put up a boundary and it will be honored and respected by others. 

That is the kind of board we are trying to create here. The mods have banned only a couple posters in over two years and it was because those posters repeatedly refused to honor and respect the boundaries of others--it was an absolute last resort after many appeals and it was voted on by the mods that were not directly involved in the incidents. 

Hopefully that is helpful for understanding where the mods are coming from on these things.

P.S. To be clear, mavsluvr has not been banned in anyway. (S)he is a desired part of this community.

I'm just a bit bummed that you're doubling/tripling down on how you handled the situation
A retrospective "whoops I guess I could have handled that a bit better" would be nice to see.
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#31
(01-11-2022, 01:29 PM)Jym Wrote: I'm just a bit bummed that you're doubling/tripling down on how you handled the situation
A retrospective "whoops I guess I could have handled that a bit better" would be nice to see.


I am an intense person and the only thing I would change is to probably ratchet down my intensity. However, I purposely ratcheted up my intensity because I had made multiple requests over the course of months to be left alone and didn't know if more intensity would finally allow me to be heard. 

I did not like the way I was being interacted with. I requested it to stop. When it persisted I requested to be ignored. When it kept persisting I reiterated all of it with more intensity.  

I have reflected on this quite a bit by putting myself on the other side and also taking myself out of the situation completely. And I stand by the fact that it is 100% appropriate to request certain interactions to stop and to request being left alone/ignored if those interactions won't change. Every single person should have that right on this board (and in life in general). 

P.S. And maybe I would take back the words "or leave"....but not because they are wrong, but because they could be misinterpreted (as they have been) coming from a mod. But we ALL have three options on this board: 1) Interact with respect with a person. 2) Not interact with a person. 3) Leave. Those are our choices.
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#32
(01-11-2022, 01:29 PM)Jym Wrote: I'm just a bit bummed that you're doubling/tripling down on how you handled the situation
A retrospective "whoops I guess I could have handled that a bit better" would be nice to see.

My 2c

I like ML's recaps and think they are very enjoyable. But to be fair to Kamm, what I observed was that ML had been trolling Kamm, did troll him (again) when Kamm called him on it, and that ML chose to double down and attack Kamm even more personally and openly, after Kamm asked him to please stop.

Since ML is an expert wordsmith who revels in his mastery of nuance, I wouldn't think it was an accident, although maybe ML thinks cleverly nuanced personal attacks and derision are good manners (which they aren't). If one wants to get along with others and have a nice enjoyable place for all to converse, I would have expected an apology or at least a statement that "I didn't intend it and won't do that again" rather than even more attacks on Kamm. When someone says ''you are hurting me, please stop,' it's not nice to attack personally even more, and it's no way to play with others.

It's not my rules. But personally, I do think this is a better place with those who play nice and let it be enjoyable to all, and do what's necessary to make amends when crossing lines.
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#33
I say unto you my dude‘s, there’s no reason for us to fight for Josh Green is here to unite us all.
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#34
(01-11-2022, 02:50 PM)BasketballJones41 Wrote: I say unto you my dude‘s, there’s no reason for us to fight for Josh Green is here to unite us all.

God King gets no respect.
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#35
Kamm's bit on Luka this year has been intentionally inflammatory and over the top IMO.  My opinion of the situation is that he drew ML offsides, and then threatened to ban him.  I don't buy that he was telling ML to leave the board as a fellow poster.
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#36
(01-11-2022, 03:04 PM)Benskix2 Wrote: Kamm's bit on Luka this year has been intentionally inflammatory and over the top IMO.  My opinion of the situation is that he drew ML offsides, and then threatened to ban him.  I don't buy that he was telling ML to leave the board as a fellow poster.

Kam hasn't been intentionally inflammatory, he's been typing what he really thinks. And he didn't threaten to ban anyone. What was actually said matters. "Threatened to ban" is just making something up.
Not very astute ^^^^
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#37
(01-11-2022, 02:07 PM)F Gump Wrote: My 2c

I like ML's recaps and think they are very enjoyable. But to be fair to Kamm, what I observed was that ML had been trolling Kamm, did troll him (again) when Kamm called him on it, and that ML chose to double down and attack Kamm even more personally and openly, after Kamm asked him to please stop.

Since ML is an expert wordsmith who revels in his mastery of nuance, I wouldn't think it was an accident, although maybe ML thinks cleverly nuanced personal attacks and derision are good manners (which they aren't). If one wants to get along with others and have a nice enjoyable place for all to converse, I would have expected an apology or at least a statement that "I didn't intend it and won't do that again" rather than even more attacks on Kamm. When someone says ''you are hurting me, please stop,' it's not nice to attack personally even more, and it's no way to play with others.

It's not my rules. But personally, I do think this is a better place with those who play nice and let it be enjoyable to all, and do what's necessary to make amends when crossing lines.

F Gump, I wonder where you find this? I read that thread multiple times and I don't see it. I see that ML only disagreed with Kamm's statements without being personal at all, and this resulted in a sudden personal attack on him.

https://www.mavsboard.com/showthread.php?tid=1604

Below I summarize my shortened conclusion from the initial messages.

First message from Kamm: "My theory is that Luka can't and doesn't raise level of NBA level players"

Second message reply from ML: "I don't agree with that statement that Luka cant raise the level of NBA players, he certainly does and is a great NBA player, and we have many other critical problems as a team that decrease or level of play"

Third message reply from Kamm: "Your reading comprehension of anything I post is completely lacking. You are trolling me. If it is the first, please ask me questions or don't comment on my posts. If it is the second, please stop it or leave the board. Trolling is not welcome here. Just because you pretend to be Followill does not make you exempt from the rules all the rest of us follow."


Kamm stepped all of sudden into the personal territory here, which is not OK IMO. I believe this should not the way to discuss things on a forum. Personal messages should be sent in private, as this is not nice to read about in public. I appreciate a lot Kamms other posts, he is an excellent poster. But to me all of the above suggests that we should never disagree with Kamm's opinions - otherwise he will turn personal against one and we will be asked to leave this place. Honestly, this is not only about Kamm and ML but everyone. It should be possible to disagree with the opinions of others without personal messages all of sudden and dictating who should be allowed to reply on someones posts or not.

I hope this will result in an apology to ML, for turning this from an opinion-based into a personal-based conversation, and so we can have ML return back to this forum.
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#38
(01-11-2022, 03:09 PM)fifteenth Wrote: Kam hasn't been intentionally inflammatory, he's been typing what he really thinks. And he didn't threaten to ban anyone. What was actually said matters. "Threatened to ban" is just making something up.

Things can be tricky coming from a position of authority.  You probably need to consider your moderation hat along with you "just one of the guys" hat when communicating.  

I get pretty fired up in conversations but at the end of the day, it's just fandom and nothing serious.  As much as I really like everyone here (even Scott), it's something I can easily walk away from if I'm getting frazzled.
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#39
I don't know the history here. Frankly I don't really care. All I know is that while the team is playing some of its best basketball of the season, the board is being overtaken by increasing negativity with people relentlessly ranting about certain players, openly bickering with each other, and taking no joy in the game. I don't get it.

Go outside. Play basketball at a nearby park. Watch the games with the computer or smartphone completely off or in the other room. Remember why we're all here to begin with. Be kind to each other. And understand that it's not all about you. We're a community, and negativity drags down everyone. Please don't ruin a good thing.
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#40
(01-11-2022, 03:31 PM)Tyler Wrote: I don't know the history here. Frankly I don't really care. All I know is that while the team is playing some of its best basketball of the season, the board is being overtaken by increasing negativity with people relentlessly ranting about certain players, openly bickering with each other, and taking no joy in the game. I don't get it.

Go outside. Play basketball at a nearby park. Watch the games with the computer or smartphone completely off or in the other room. Remember why we're all here to begin with. Be kind to each other. And understand that it's not all about you. We're a community, and negativity drags down everyone. Please don't ruin a good thing.

I'll happily admit I was wrong.  I really though the tank was in our near future.  I was even a bit skeptical with the GSW win (Curry played REALLY bad) but the Chicago win has really made me think there might be hope.  Sprinkle in a little Josh Green magic and the world is upside down...but in a good way.
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