2022 NBA Draft: #37 Jaden Hardy (6' 3", 6' 9" WS) to DAL | two 2nds to SAC

[Dundalis]

Kamm, you now have me scared about the athleticism.  I don’t really care about the stat line and also don’t think the G League is a good developmental league for HS guys at all.  I also like the shooting stroke a lot.  I also don’t mind and actually like the irrationally confident player provided he can be coached. 

But more I’m digging and watching and I’m leaning your way on the athleticism concerns.  Hoping some of the athletic concerns…particularly the first step.  Trusting the Mavs saw something different in the workout.  This org is all about defining roles so will be interesting to see what role they intend to develop him for and more importantly if he is ready to accept that role. 

Still would have preferred Liddell, but I’ll give Nico and co. The benefit of the doubt on their first swing…especially since it’s a small one.

Not seeing this below average athlete. He looks a bit flat footed on plays, but that may have been a confidence thing, I'm seeing him blow past G League players also, and he clearly has a very good handle, which makes athleticism less of an issue offensively as he can leave defenders flat footed pretty easily. He doesn't have elite athleticism, but I think it's very much in the sneaky athlete tier. Much better athlete than say Brunson coming out of college IMO.

[dirkfansince1998]

Not seeing this below average athlete. He looks a bit flat footed on plays, but that may have been a confidence thing, I'm seeing him blow past G League players also, and he clearly has a very good handle, which makes athleticism less of an issue offensively as he can leave defenders flat footed pretty easily. He doesn't have elite athleticism, but I think it's very much in the sneaky athlete tier. Much better athlete than say Brunson coming out of college IMO.

It looks like he has straight line speed but I would argue that Brunson has superior basketball specific athleticism. First step. Change of pace and direction. And as a big RED FLAG. His lateral quickness is a problem.

[Dundalis]

It looks like he has straight line speed but I would argue that Brunson has superior basketball specific athleticism. First step. Change of pace and direction. And as a big RED FLAG. His lateral quickness is a problem.

Fair enough although I feel like Brunson has developed a lot of that post college. He just looked like a bad athlete coming out of college and in his first season where you did not see much of the Luka like stop start, speed changes he shows off right now. Also think Brunson's ball handling was more basic too. He's developed significantly  with both ball handling and foot work since his first season.

Brunson is a strong dude, but he's still small, Hardy looks like he has the body to be able to barrel and bully backpeddling defenders much more effectively at his size especially as he gets into an NBA program, and will have to do less jerk and jive type dribbling to get to the rim than Brunson does. Also has a much more refined isolation scoring game than Brunson had coming out of college. Kinda shows just how much Brunson has developed when you think about it.

One thing I still don't like about Brunson is his pull up 3 game off the dribble. It's not very good, and means he often needs to penetrate the paint as the primary ball handler unless he passes it out. It makes him predictable and is currently a big limiter on his scoring potential I think.

[dirkfansince1998]

Leaves the contract question? Two-way. Standard rookie. Using a part of the taxMLE.

[Hogmelon]

This is a weird conversation. I’ve known who Hollinger is for years. I dislike his analysis and was trying to talk smack about him. I still don’t get your point. He’s a writer. He never balled. I’m unimpressed with his takes. You are of course welcome to be unimpressed with mine.

No, Jommybone, what I am really "unimpressed with" is your jumping on my ass ("My reaction is who the hell is Hollinger and why do we quote him here? Did he even play ball? His formula for rating players sucks.") when all I had done was post two comments that were ONLY verbatim excerpts from an article in The Athletic that had been previously posted and discussed numerous times in this forum.  I repeat  ---  my posts contained ONLY relevant verbatim excerpts from the relevant article, with ZERO additional words of my own (as in ... ZILCH).

John Hollinger had been quoted or referenced literally HUNDREDS of times in this forum before I did so.  Did you ever ask, "Who the hell is Hollinger and why do we quote him here? Did he even play ball?" on ANY of those previous HUNDREDS of occasions?  

I rarely post here any more because of situations just like this --- I can't even post two simple comments that are verbatim excerpts from an article (with NO WORDS AT ALL of my own) without catching hell from some mean-spirited pompous asshole.

So ... if you "still don't get [my] point," then don't worry about it, because you never will.

[Mavs2021]

My first reaction is that the summary misrepresents the number of games he played in the G League. It was 12, not 21. My second reaction is that I think it's funny to ignore a kid's entire career where he was a top draft prospect and describe him like he sucks based on just 12 games.

Furthermore nobody has any insights on how high school draft prospects should perform in the G-League compared to college or Europe. I´d probably have taken Liddell over him, but at some point it simply becomes worth it to take a swing on a projected lottery pick. If his head is right, this will fire him up to prove everybody wrong. We have to start somewhere with the youth development.

Funny I checked in twice during the draft and last time was at #36 thinking same old Mavs. LOL. Maybe the new infrastructure is getting to Cuban.

I´d also hold off judgment on the money angle. If they unload somebody before July 1st, having 6M in cash to cushion the blow for the other team could be useful. $6M are "just" $6M for Cuban, while $6M in salary are $6M+tax.

[Mavs2021]

I’ll say one last thing (for now) about Hardy not being a top flight athlete.  If you were going to have to learn how to survive without elite athleticism and have to rely on different tricks, pace and footwork to maximize your game…there may not be a better duo (assuming Mavs retain Brunson) to learn from than Luka and JB.  

Those two utilize ELITE footwork, strength and savvy to make up for other guys being able to out athlete them.

I was thinking that, if they had measured Luka athletically at the combine, we probably could have gotten a future 1st round pick from the Cavs and taken Luka at #9.  


Luka during vertical.


Measurement guy: Did you slip or something? Wanna jump again?

Luka: Nah, I´m good.

Scouts: No vertical and lazy, too. Drinks coke as well.

[SleepingHero]

Wow. 

I'm shocked the Mavs actually selected one of my guys I was high on. Hardy's counting stats weren't super impressive. I'm worried about his rim finishing, defense, and just general consistency...

BUT the dude can create his shot over anyone. Watching some of his games it was apparent he had talent offensively. I was shocked he fell to 37. I am even more shocked the Mavs grabbed him. I hope he proves my scouting skills right, because I am really high on the dude. He has the skills. Usually the Mavs in the past have grabbed the athletic guys that don't have skills and attempt to teach it to them. 

This is the first time since 2018 imo where the Mavs grabbed a guy with skills already and are going to work around his limitations. 


---------------------------------------

Second, I don't know why we're all suddenly worried about the Knicks and Brunson, as if them creating space makes their pursuit of him more real. They were always going to do that. I wasn't surprised they made trades to get there. Even now they only have 18 mil at the most if they renounce everyone. 

If the Knicks want to go ahead and throw Brunson 4 years 100 mil, I hope the Mavs just laugh in their face and give Brunson 5/115. This is a losing battle for the Knicks. I thought their deals were absolutely terrible and I hope it blows up in their face. Cuban just needs to write a blank check and call it that. Given we've already heard rumors from Jake Fischer himself saying "Brunson is telling his current/former teammates his return to the Mavs are essentially done" and even Brad Townsend "I expect a Brunson deal back to the Mavs to happen a few minutes after Free Agency begins", I am not worried.

[Dundalis]

Wow. 

I'm shocked the Mavs actually selected one of my guys I was high on. Hardy's counting stats weren't super impressive. I'm worried about his rim finishing, defense, and just general consistency...

BUT the dude can create his shot over anyone. Watching some of his games it was apparent he had talent offensively. I was shocked he fell to 37. I am even more shocked the Mavs grabbed him. I hope he proves my scouting skills right, because I am really high on the dude. He has the skills. Usually the Mavs in the past have grabbed the athletic guys that don't have skills and attempt to teach it to them. 

This is the first time since 2018 imo where the Mavs grabbed a guy with skills already and are going to work around his limitations. 


---------------------------------------

Second, I don't know why we're all suddenly worried about the Knicks and Brunson, as if them creating space makes their pursuit of him more real. They were always going to do that. I wasn't surprised they made trades to get there. Even now they only have 18 mil at the most if they renounce everyone. 

If the Knicks want to go ahead and throw Brunson 4 years 100 mil, I hope the Mavs just laugh in their face and give Brunson 5/115. This is a losing battle for the Knicks. I thought their deals were absolutely terrible and I hope it blows up in their face. Cuban just needs to write a blank check and call it that. Given we've already heard rumors from Jake Fischer himself saying "Brunson is telling his current/former teammates his return to the Mavs are essentially done" and even Brad Townsend "I expect a Brunson deal back to the Mavs to happen a few minutes after Free Agency begins", I am not worried.

Signing Brunson to a deal that makes him untradeable does worry me. I don't want to lose Brunson for nothing, but losing any flexibility to move him and that contract in the near future to me is a problem that could really handicap the ability to build the team out effectively.

[Branduil]

I don't care too much about Brunson being "untradeable" because I can't imagine the Mavs wanting to trade him.

[SleepingHero]

Signing Brunson to a deal that makes him untradeable does worry me. I don't want to lose Brunson for nothing, but losing any flexibility to move him and that contract in the near future to me is a problem that could really handicap the ability to build the team out effectively.

Very hard to imagine an untradeable number for Brunson that he could realistically be offered this summer. Is $28 a year too much? 30? 

Sure it makes him grossly overpaid, but the Mavs will 1000% be better in the short term at that number and wouldn't even look to trade him anyways. Even as long as Brunson stays healthy and remains the player that he is, he'll still have value at a big number for contract matching purposes, even if it has to happen in the 3rd or 4th year of the deal.

I don't think he's going to get more than $25 mil a year this summer, which while I deem a slight overpay, isn't even remotely close to some of the albatrosses that are currently in the NBA with guys getting handed $50 mil contracts.

[sefant]

Much better athlete than say Brunson coming out of college IMO.

Brunson seems like the ultimate pro (the reason i don't mind paying him, my fear is low that he is starting to slack once paid), working out like a maniac with picture perfect diet (my assumption). Which seems to be rather rare in the NBA, because NBA teams letting players do whatever they want.

Since diet is ultra complicated (unless you doing hours/days of research) or getting prof. help, most young NBA players probably have rather avg/bad diet traits.

Its up to the player to properly handle it and have the self disclipine to eat properly. While european soccer teams basically "forcing" teens in their academy to eat right and even established players eating ~ 80 % of their food provided by their clubs.

I said it before, and i say it again: if Luka had Brunson workout/diet traits, he would already won a MVP.

Timeline:

- Brunson torn labrum in his shoulder (bubble season), march 2020
- 9 months break
- Brunson looks like a "monster" compared to before: got noticeable faster (quicker first step), got stronger, got more athletic

[SleepingHero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W533ERPpqko

[Halfnir]

If the Knicks want to go ahead and throw Brunson 4 years 100 mil, I hope the Mavs just laugh in their face and give Brunson 5/115. 

I'm reading this a second time now ... If i'm Brunson, i'd be pissed with that counter-offer because you are questioning his math skills. 

The counter to trump 4/100 is at least 5/125 with last year as PO.

[Kammrath]

I hope he proves my scouting skills right

We need to log this one away as....

@"Chicagojk" & @"SleepingHero"

VERSUS

@"dirkfansince1998" & @"Kammrath"

One of our evaluation reputations will take a big hit and one of our evaluation reputations will get a huge boost based on how this turns out.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/...4508784641

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1540231009198825473

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1540231688231571456

[Branduil]

Seems like a very low-risk move. I doubt picks in the #50s have any more chance of success than this one.

[Kammrath]

22-55 on layups for Jaden Hardy?

Is he possibly a WORSE finisher than Josh Green was coming out of college??