Poll: Brunson:
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65.22%
30 65.22%
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8.70%
4 8.70%
Trade
26.09%
12 26.09%
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BRUNSON BURNER: to NYK for 4yrs/$104M (no SnT) | NYK docked 2025 2nd for tampering
(05-31-2022, 07:34 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: I may be misremembering, but I thought there was a max they could offer using an extension and brunson would be able to make way more on the open market (even before his playoff surge).

I think the real mistake was giving him a contract without the usual option that would allow him to be a RFA this season instead of a UFA.

At least, that's what my (often faulty) memory is telling me.

4 years $55M was the max they could give. Would that have been enough? Since Dallas never made an offer until after the trade deadline, we can only speculate. I think he would have accepted it at the beginning of the year and Rick Brunson was apparently still interested in January. 

But I completely agree it was a mistake not to include the team option and make him a RFA after 3 years. Between that and the extension, they really had to work hard to botch this one.
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(05-31-2022, 07:34 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: I may be misremembering, but I thought there was a max they could offer using an extension and brunson would be able to make way more on the open market (even before his playoff surge).

I think the real mistake was giving him a contract without the usual option that would allow him to be a RFA this season instead of a UFA.

At least, that's what my (often faulty) memory is telling me.

Your memory is correct.

An extension for Brunson was limited to the same type of deal that DFS ended up taking. The starting salary could only be 105% of the average salary for 2022, which gets defined at the end of the 2021-22 NBA year. Last summer, that number was projected to land at about 10.5M or maybe 11.0M. (Revenues have grown, so now that number looks like it will be about 12.5M.)

Also coming into play last summer, and even well into the season, was the question of what JB was worth. Was Brunson, who had just been played off the floor in the playoffs and was thought to be backup-caliber at best, even going to be worth keeping at that 10.5M or so? It was debated. It's easy to forget that he has come so far so quickly.

As for whether the Mavs messed up on the original deal, it's hard to say. If they knew then what they know now, then of course. But what he got (4 years at the minimum, with year 4 a team option) was the "going rate" for players picked at that point in that draft (Mitchell Robinson, for example, got the EXACT same deal.) The Mavs did get the benefit of 4 cheap years, if he worked out.

Let's also admit that as iffy as it looked in Dallas for him last summer, with him stuck behind Luka and sucking in the playoffs, maybe someone with a PG opening decides to take a strong run at him. Are we sure the Mavs would have matched? It's only this season where he's emerged.
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(05-31-2022, 08:53 PM)F Gump Wrote: As for whether the Mavs messed up on the original deal, it's hard to say. If they knew then what they know now, then of course. But what he got (4 years at the minimum, with year 4 a team option) was the "going rate" for players picked at that point in that draft (Mitchell Robinson, for example, got the EXACT same deal.) The Mavs did get the benefit of 4 cheap years, if he worked out.

Thanks for clarifying this, this actually makes me feel a little better and what they did. I was thinking it had been a "they just forgot to add that" issue with the contract.
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(05-31-2022, 03:10 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: I'm definitely gagging on the numbers a bit because I am 100% still salty they didn't extend him.  He would now be one of the best value contracts in the NBA and a massive trade piece if/when they felt there was an opportunity.

They didn't extend.  I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.  

It was a miss by the FO, but it's over and done with.  I have to remind myself of this and accept that he is going to get "overpaid" but they absolutely need to keep him here because it's hard to imagine any SnT that makes sense with the BYC in play.

We've found the guy that orders pizza from his favorite pizza shop even though hes within delivery radius but its a far drive....only tips 2 bucks....and self medicates on it being "individual responsibility for the driver to say its not worth it" or "find a new job if you dont like the tips"

Wow.  You should buy a farm and sell cows.  Spare me the "business is business" crap.   "charge it to the game"...cool.

The Dallas Morning News article on the subject...IF TRUE...you read that IF TRUE...makes it sound like Rick advised JB's agent to get Dallas to sign an extension that was offered previously but declined....the Mavs didnt respond this time or declined(thankfully for JB and his Fam)....and now JB is in a perfect spot.

JB almost got screwed by fear.  Now its the Mavs.  Which is why Rick said in the article "There is no discount".   They almost got screwed...now its pay market value or JB is leaving.

Contracts are for getting screwed in most cases.   There should be a better way that is variable.
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https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/153...7276040225

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/...0080480268
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(06-02-2022, 03:19 PM)Kammrath Wrote: https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/153...7276040225

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/...0080480268

So, is Jericho Sims a good rebounder?  Too soon?
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If Brunson wants to leave there are options to get him to New York via S&T

Burks + Mitchell S&T $12.5 million --> Dallas

Brunson S&T $25 million --> New York

I'd hate to lose Brunson, but if he's gone, he's gone, and Burks could be a sneaky good acquisition. Another big, tough versatile guard/wing in the DFS and Bullock mold. He's a 40% three point shooter, but he can also handle. He won the starting PG position over Kemba Walker. He's a smart, hard-nosed defender, a veteran, and I can see him as Kidd type player. I could definitely see him starting next to Luka, or more likely coming off the bench in a do-everything role.

Mitchell is your classic rebounding, rim protector who will set screens and defend.
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(06-02-2022, 05:46 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: If Brunson wants to leave there are options to get him to New York via S&T

Burks + Mitchell S&T $12.5 million --> Dallas

Brunson S&T $25 million --> New York

That breaks all sorts of trade rules, since both JB and Mitchell would be base year restricted. Doesn't match either way. Bobby Marks noted very recently about this very sort of idea (a DAL-NY swap involving both Robinson and Brunson) that he has NEVER seen big raise snt players swapped for each other, because satisfying the match with a base year obstacle on both sides is virtually impossible.

And as we have discussed many times here, if the Mavs keep Brunson (or, sign-and-trade him with equivalent salary coming back), the Mavs ability to accept a player via SNT will be virtually impossible, as they will be far over the 155M apron.
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If the Mavs handled their business during the season and come with a competitive offer, I believe they will be fine.   

I am sure playing for your father holds some appeal.  But there are some drawbacks as well.    Heck, if the Knicks don't make the playoffs next year, the whole coaching staff may be out.   
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So, with dad joining the Knick’s staff, maybe we should model this out so we can see how a NY S&T might work…just in case.  I’ll take a stab and hopefully there won’t be too many cap mistakes.  First, we have to pick a starting number for Brunson.  I’m going to use $22mm as it seems to be in the middle of the range most often talked about.  Brunson would count as $22mm incoming to NY.  The Knicks would have to send out (not all to Dallas necessarily) at least $17mm using the $5mm trade spread rule.  

Brunson counts $11mm as outgoing from Dallas.  Currently, Dallas is limited to 125% plus $100k and can’t use the $5mm trade spread.  So, $13.85 is the most we can take back for just Brunson if he starts at $22mm.  Those amounts don’t “cross”, so even if you could come up with the exact contracts to get to $17mm coming from NY, you can’t get there.  This is why you often hear about S&T’s needing a third team to work.

Next step is to add some players to try to bridge the gap.  If NY had a player or two who made/combined for just under $13.85mm they could send that combo to Dallas and another player who bridges the gap to a third team.  That doesn’t exactly do anything to compensate Dallas though unless there is a pick coming back.  So, we will park, but not discard that idea.

Instead, let’s see what happens if Dallas adds a player(s).  Brown makes a round $3mm, so the math is easy.  The Dallas outgoing with the 125% for Brunson/Brown moves to $17.6mm.  Brown plus Brunson count as $25mm as NY’s incoming.  They have to send at least $19.9mm out.  The spread got tighter, but we still don’t quite match if you are trying to do this as a two-team deal.  However, if you send Brown to a third team Dallas still gets to count the $17.6mm outgoing, but we go back to the $17mm incoming from NY.  Those numbers cross and we have a range for NY to hit in terms of what they send here.  The key is finding a third team to take one of our smaller salary guys.  BTW, yes we could send out a larger salary like THJ instead of Brown.  That would be the technique for expanding the deal into something that brings back a larger salary to “star” to Dallas without the third team needing to absorb as much salary.

Now let’s look at some NY salaries.  Is there a combo from NY that falls between $17mm and $17.6mm.  BTW, I don’t think this happens based on incoming NY talent (if it happens at all).  NY can get cap room.  They will have to pay to get it, so the negotiation for Dallas starts at what it takes for NY to create cap space.  That is probably an expiring vet or two, a youngster and a pick.  If the Brunson S&T gets much more expensive than that, NY will just go the cap room route.  The main benefit to playing along with a S&T is Dallas getting its 2023 pick back which frees the pursuit of bigger name guys.  

Yes, there are combo’s that fall within the required range.  I think you start with one of Rose ($14.5mm), Burks ($10.2mm), Kemba ($9.2mm) or Noel ($9.2mm).  All are either expiring or TO’s for 2023.  If it is any of the last three, you add one of the $5mm-ish guys (Reddish, Toppin or Gibson) and one of the $2mm-ish guys (Quickley, Grimes or McBride).  So, for fun let’s do Burks, Gibson and Grimes.  They combine for $17.44mm, so NY can take back as much as $22.54mm which fits the starting number we picked for Brunson.  Dallas, again, is sending Brunson to NY and Brown to a third team.  They count as $17.6mm as outgoing.  Add in the 2023 pick and you have a framework.  

Obviously this can be adjusted by playing around with Brunson’s number if you want a different grouping.  You could also send out a second small salary guy like Chriss to provide additional flexibility.  But, this is probably the neighborhood we are talking about for a Brunson S&T. It isn’t equal value.  It was NEVER GOING TO BE.  Some of what you are getting is useful (either to Dallas or to another team in an expanded deal that brings a star to Dallas).  The key to me is getting a tradable 2023 pick which opens our trove of picks for a ____________ trade (fill in your favorite star).
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I agree, getting the 23 back is the minimum of what I want from NY for JB. In all honesty, I’d prefer a 3rd team give us the players cause I hate being Knicks of the West!
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(06-03-2022, 07:17 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I am sure playing for your father holds some appeal.
I know every situation is different, but the time I spent working for my dad was the hardest job I ever had. Decided that college and a whole other field was just what the doctor ordered. 


Just saying that JB's father as coach may not be the carrot to sign with NYKs some have implied.
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For what it's worth, it has been reported that JB's dad told confidants that Jalen should just take the best deal. Both the Knicks and Mavs expect JB to sign with the Mavs. 

The S&T thing is pretty complicated to say the least. Unless Jalen is adamant about leaving, I expect Brunson to be back in Mavs-land with a new contract.

Knicks Notes: Brunson, Etienne, Harper, Draft | Hoops Rumors
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Been traveling a lot recently for various reasons which explains my limited posts, but it also allows me to binge on basically any and every basketball podcast out there. 

In my consumption I stumbled on the Dunc'd on Podcast and he had on Jake Fischer where he had a very interesting tidbit on Brunson's impending free agency:

Context for the conversation was about Toronto's options and how Masai is always looking for ways to get better, Where Fischer mentions how expensive a theoretical OG deal would be, but he's not untouchable. Duncan goes on to talk about how their cap sheet is relatively clean in a couple of years. Which flows into the Knicks recent hire of Rick Brunson.

This is where Fischer says

Duncan: "I wanted to ask you because you're probably more tied in than either of us are at this point...who are going to be the linchpins of this transaction period?"

Fischer: "So someone else told me this afternoon because we both agreed...the word overwhelmingly around the league, even with Rick Brunson being hired to the Knicks coaching staff, you know people are writing Jalen Brunson back to Dallas in sharpie. I don't know if that's going to be the true outcome right? Like literally everyone in the league is saying that."

SO lets hope Fischer gets this one right and JB is a Mav for the foreseeable future!! (Also says he doesn't expect Lavine to leave CHI but that's for another thread!)

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ja...0565656470
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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Quote:The Knicks looking to hire Rick Brunson, per Ian Begley of SNY, isn't a coincidence. His son, Dallas Mavericks free-agent Jalen Brunson, may be next. While New York won't have the cap room, multiple sources believe Dallas may blink at Brunson's asking price, compelled to sign and trade him to the Knicks.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1003...fore-draft
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I think I would be open to doing a sign and trade of JB to NYK if I could get TWO first round picks in return (for example, #11 this year, depending on who NYK chooses, AND the 2023 pick back from the KP trade).

If NYK cannot get the room, then the Mavs have all the leverage in the situation. I also like the Mavs just signing JB.
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Sign him, feature him for a few months, then trade him if you must. Trading him this summer is a big mistake.
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(06-13-2022, 10:23 PM)Jommybone Wrote: Sign him, feature him for a few months, then trade him if you must.


Definitely my preferred route.
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(06-13-2022, 10:45 AM)Kammrath Wrote: I think I would be open to doing a sign and trade of JB to NYK if I could get TWO first round picks in return (for example, #11 this year, depending on who NYK chooses, AND the 2023 pick back from the KP trade).

If NYK cannot get the room, then the Mavs have all the leverage in the situation. I also like the Mavs just signing JB.

I can't imagine it would cost the Nicks two first to generate the room on their own.  The return on a Brunson to Nick's S&T would likely be wildly disappointing.
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(06-13-2022, 11:12 PM)mvossman Wrote: I can't imagine it would cost the Nicks two first to generate the room on their own.  The return on a Brunson to Nick's S&T would likely be wildly disappointing.

I suspect the cost to get that much cap room would be significant. It would probably be 25-30M needing to be moved with nothing in return. (If it's less than that, then aren't they outbid by DAL and maybe others?) And to get that much room, there's not only what bribe it takes to get your players taken for no return, but also the loss of those players themselves.

Plus, who do they get the room from? There's not many teams with a big pile of cap room to sell, and some (if not most) of those will be using it on their own targets.

The bigger question is, how much will JB actually get offered? I can't see him getting max offers, or even close. As much as I hope the Mavs keep him, I do think there is a number that's too big to make sense.
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