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NBA TRADE TALK: TDL over
#61
(08-17-2021, 12:01 PM)Branduil Wrote: Glad Ben Simmons is practicing how to drive to the hoop when three guys overguard him on the perimeter. That's a totally real situation that will happen to him all the time.

ha ha! The next drill is the shooting over a sagging defense drill. They haven't decided yet, though, which hand he will use in that drill.
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#62
(08-17-2021, 12:08 PM)fifteenth Wrote: ha ha! The next drill is the shooting over a sagging defense drill. They haven't decided yet, though, which hand he will use in that drill.
Or the defense fouling him and taking FTs!
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#63
https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2021/08/e...tions.html


Super interesting names here that could fit really well here: 

"Any -- and all -- impactful free agents are gone. The Cavs spoke with the New Orleans Pelicans about the possibility of a Josh Hart sign-and-trade, sources tell cleveland.com, but that possibility apparently vanished Monday, when Hart moved closer to a three-year, $38 million deal to stay in New Orleans. Cleveland has also explored the trade market. Kyle Anderson, Terrence Ross, Joe Ingles, Bojan Bogdanovic, Cam Reddish, T.J. Warren, Thaddeus Young, Tobias Harris, Jeremy Lamb and Harrison Barnes are all said to be available. Reddish is a player the Cavs liked in the 2019 draft. They’ve been in contact with Atlanta about him. But wings don’t come cheap."
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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#64
(08-11-2021, 09:53 PM)cow Wrote: If abominable is how you'd describe Rivers, and I'd barely argue that, I'd hate how to see how you describe Kidd's resume.  Kidd was out of the league for a reason and until he proves otherwise, he's an absolute failure as a head coach.

All things considered, Kidd has absolutely one of the worst coaching resumes I’ve ever seen. Abject failure in two previous stops. Nonsensical coaching decisions like ordering end of game missed free throws up by 3??  A failed coup attempt early in his first job, wtf?  Stupid mind games and punishment for stuff like not having an iPhone.  Outside of on the court decision making, you’d think he has the mind of an adolescent, at best.  The idiotic 100% blitz defense that practically ruined a promising Bucks season. Oh, and his teams have by and large been on the wrong side of .500.  And, so many other things. How the hell did he get a third job?  The only possible saving grace is that he’s coaching a full fledged superstar now who won’t take one once of his crap.  Not an ounce. So, maybe he realizes where the power really lies and controls his worst impulses. Maybe. But, I’m not hopeful. I’d be surprised if he lasts the season.
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#65
(08-17-2021, 12:01 PM)Branduil Wrote: Glad Ben Simmons is practicing how to drive to the hoop when three guys overguard him on the perimeter. That's a totally real situation that will happen to him all the time.

Shoot the freakin 3 with people in your face, with crowd noise, and people yelling insults from the side instead of cheering when you do something "meh" like that...and turn off that music that no one hears in a game also....THEN post a video and we'll think you are serious about improving.  I'll think you are serious about improving.

Oh and run a 3-4 suicides (or whatever you kids do these days) BEFORE you start that drill, so you are doing it fatigued.

If you really want to impress me...don't shoot 50 in a row and get a rhythm....shoot the shot on a catch and shoot, and then run two laps a 2/3 speed between each attempt (3 laps for every one you miss)...and hit most of them.

I'm just a dude...but that would be telling regular joe me how serious you are.
"There are no friends on the court." - Luka Doncic
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#66
Is there any deadline for Markkanen/Chicago qualifying offer situation?
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#67
(08-18-2021, 02:29 PM)omahen Wrote: Is there any deadline for Markkanen/Chicago qualifying offer situation?

No, I think he could go to play overseas and he will still be RFA in the NBA. At least that was the case in older CBA 
At some point I wonder if it is better for him to just take the QO and hit the market in 2022
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#68
(08-18-2021, 02:38 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: At some point I wonder if it is better for him to just take the QO and hit the market in 2022


QO might make him less interesting for teams like Dallas who are still building, but he would become a very attractive target for all win now teams. Simple low salary contract to trade for.
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#69
(08-18-2021, 02:29 PM)omahen Wrote: Is there any deadline for Markkanen/Chicago qualifying offer situation?

Yes. Oct 1. After that date, everything changes and it would be disaster for LM.

On Oct 2, there is no QO that he can accept. But he's still a RFA, and at the mercy of whatever offer CHI wants to make, for however many years and at whatever amount. And if he signs nothing, he continues to be RFA again the next season, so long as CHI gives him that QO from season start to Oct 1.

In other words, unless he's really stupid, he WILL do something by Oct 1 (which could be part of the mythical Dragic-LM to Dallas package on that day that needs Brown to be included), but that's the latest he will let it go.
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#70
(08-18-2021, 02:52 PM)omahen Wrote: QO might make him less interesting for teams like Dallas who are still building, but he would become a very attractive target for all win now teams. Simple low salary contract to trade for.

CHI won't get much, since he will be just a rental who is on a MLE=size salary with no ability to be re-signed. And instead of trading for him for just a 2-month gig, teams can opt for signing buyouts who will only be needing the minimum, with no need to trade for them, to fill short term needs. 

IOW if he signs the QO, CHI loses almost all chance of getting ANY value in return. They might as well trade him and get something. The fact that his trade value is not that high, they can wish it was higher, but it is what it is.
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#71
@"F Gump" what's your gut on this:

Is everything on hold with LM because of the tampering investigation against CHI and MIA?

Do you think there is legitimate smoke to the possibility that the Mavs might be trying to work a three way with CHI and TOR?
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#72
(08-18-2021, 03:24 PM)Kammrath Wrote: @"F Gump" what's your gut on this:

Is everything on hold with LM because of the tampering investigation against CHI and MIA?

No, I doubt it. It hasn't stopped either CHI or TOR from doing whatever else they have decided to do, so the idea it has some bearing on just a deal with DAL really makes no sense.

Do you think there is legitimate smoke to the possibility that the Mavs might be trying to work a three way with CHI and TOR?

The odds are very small, because 3 teams and because Mavs get stuff they need at attractive prices and because all the other barriers we have heard, and because multiplied over 3 teams, and etc etc etc. But ...


I do see things that can be used to make such a scenario necessary in a way, small though it may be.
*Brown can't be used as a salary match piece until Oct 1.
*Simply trading for LM using the TPE, without a big man outgoing, further clogs an already over-clogged big man rotation. But they don't want Powell at his salary.
*On the other hand, simply trading away DP to TOR, with both DP and Brown outgoing, over-thins the Mavs of bigs. 
*But a trade that has both of "DP/Brown outgoing" PLUS "LM incoming"? Ahhh, yeah.
*In addition, by combining both an LM trade and a Dragic trade into one, the outgoing salary-match pieces can be split between the two other teams, where neither gets a cumbersome payroll burden, and yet there's some value sent to each. Powell would definitely go to TOR, and then either Brown, Player X, or both might go to CHI.

It still means that you have to satisfy all of TOR, CHI, and LM in order to make that deal. So that keeps it way unlikely. But it's a scenario that does check some boxes that might otherwise be obstacles, so it makes a fun pipe dream to keep in mind until something else happens, or until Oct 2.
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#73
(08-18-2021, 07:23 PM)F Gump Wrote: I do see things that can be used to make such a scenario necessary in a way, small though it may be.
*Brown can't be used as a salary match piece until Oct 1.
*Simply trading for LM using the TPE, without a big man outgoing, further clogs an already over-clogged big man rotation. But they don't want Powell at his salary.
*On the other hand, simply trading away DP to TOR, with both DP and Brown outgoing, over-thins the Mavs of bigs. 
*But a trade that has both of "DP/Brown outgoing" PLUS "LM incoming"? Ahhh, yeah.
*In addition, by combining both an LM trade and a Dragic trade into one, the outgoing salary-match pieces can be split between the two other teams, where neither gets a cumbersome payroll burden, and yet there's some value sent to each. Powell would definitely go to TOR, and then either Brown, Player X, or both might go to CHI.

It still means that you have to satisfy all of TOR, CHI, and LM in order to make that deal. So that keeps it way unlikely. But it's a scenario that does check some boxes that might otherwise be obstacles, so it makes a fun pipe dream to keep in mind until something else happens, or until Oct 2.

There is no 3way where we sent less salary out.
If we want to match Dragic at 19 Mio and LM over our TPE we have to sent over 20 Mio. That's not happening.

The problem is either the bulls management trying to play hardball or LM not taking the TPE-money.
Or maybe it's the same thing which hold up the trade with Boston, we want them to take Moses Brown.

The thing about the trade with Toronto is, there is no trade for Dragic.
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#74
(08-18-2021, 11:59 PM)Mapka Wrote: There is no 3way where we sent less salary out.
If we want to match Dragic at 19 Mio and LM over our TPE we have to sent over 20 Mio. That's not happening.

The problem is either the bulls management trying to play hardball or LM not taking the TPE-money.
Or maybe it's the same thing which hold up the trade with Boston, we want them to take Moses Brown.

The thing about the trade with Toronto is, there is no trade for Dragic.
Chicago has their own TPE so we could divert a player to them that’s used to match salaries. 

Chicago: TPE, Terry

Toronto: Powell, Green

Dallas: Dragic, LM

Swap Green/Terry if you want and still works
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#75
(08-19-2021, 05:54 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Chicago has their own TPE so we could divert a player to them that’s used to match salaries. 

Chicago: TPE, Terry

Toronto: Powell, Green

Dallas: Dragic, LM

Swap Green/Terry if you want and still works
I keep hearing these proposals of Green and Terry going to Chi. They have SO many of those type of guys on their roster. What they don't have is bigs. That very well could be the holdup, or it was discovered that the trade is dead in the water because we won't give up what they want (and what we have an abundance of) and that's why news isn't coming up anymore. I do wonder if the TPE and WCS (instead of Green or Terry) is the answer to that part of the equation. That may be acceptable to CHI, but LM doesn't want to take the TPE as his next 3 year salary.
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#76
The more i read about Larry Nance the last hour and checked out certain stats, he probably should be the target no 1 over Lauri. And would fit into the TPE. Especially since the overall goal should be to build a top 10 defense around Luka.

Defense + Lob threat (78th percentile pick and roll) + 88th percentile of attacking the rim. But also being able to knock down open 3's.


- Cavs 5th best defense with him on the floor
- Worst defense in the NBA with him off the floor
- Finished 25th in DefRtg

What the heck Big Grin
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#77
(08-19-2021, 07:10 AM)sefant Wrote: The more i read about Larry Nance the last hour and checked out certain stats, he probably should be the target no 1 over Lauri. And would fit into the TPE. Especially since the overall goal should be to build a top 10 defense around Luka.

Defense + Lob threat (78th percentile pick and roll) + 88th percentile of attacking the rim. But also being able to knock down open 3's.


- Cavs 5th best defense with him on the floor
- Worst defense in the NBA with him off the floor
- Finished 25th in DefRtg


Nance is the best defender that is likely attainable, no question. BUT I don't know about his off court (strange illness?) and locker room issues that might be causing teams to not have interest.
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#78
(08-19-2021, 06:03 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I keep hearing these proposals of Green and Terry going to Chi. They have SO many of those type of guys on their roster. What they don't have is bigs. 

There are two versions of LM to Dallas...Trade Match and TPE.  Trade Match could be done already even if it included Moses because of the Chicago TPE allowing it to be done on a non-aggregated basis (unless you believe LM wants more than 3/$44).  A straight TPE single team trade with Chicago-only could similarly be done already.

There is a TPE version that involves getting Dragic and LM with the outgoing salary matching Dragic and being split between Tor/Chi.  If Moses is needed for matching outgoing salary, then the deal has to wait.

One of Powell or Maxi has to be outgoing in any scenario (outgoing big).

The other mix and match options are WCS/Moses/Green/Terry/Burke.  I agree Chicago needs more size and we have too much of it (especially if LM is added).  There have been plenty of trade ideas posted that solve that issue.
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#79
(08-19-2021, 07:39 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: There are two versions of LM to Dallas...Trade Match and TPE.  Trade Match could be done already even if it included Moses because of the Chicago TPE allowing it to be done on a non-aggregated basis (unless you believe LM wants more than 3/$44).  A straight TPE single team trade with Chicago-only could similarly be done already.

There is a TPE version that involves getting Dragic and LM with the outgoing salary matching Dragic and being split between Tor/Chi.  If Moses is needed for matching outgoing salary, then the deal has to wait.

One of Powell or Maxi has to be outgoing in any scenario (outgoing big).

The other mix and match options are WCS/Moses/Green/Terry/Burke.  I agree Chicago needs more size and we have too much of it (especially if LM is added).  There have been plenty of trade ideas posted that solve that issue.
I get it, been following this thought pretty closely. I’m just not sure if there is a hold up, or the more likely scenario of we don’t have what either team wants and trade talks are currently dead while they explore other options, since there is currently no reason to make a deal (no real deadline). 


Doesn’t mean the start of the season won’t create a deadline for either or both teams, just that right now I’m not sure there is much left to be said. The exact pieces in the trade are almost always different than what is mainly discussed. I will say, I appreciate your “non-specific” thoughts to the discussion more than specific trades although for a while it is fun to discuss the specifics. But your framework is the basis of getting things going.
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#80
(08-19-2021, 07:20 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Nance is the best defender that is likely attainable, no question. BUT I don't know about his off court (strange illness?) and locker room issues that might be causing teams to not have interest.

Really strange case. He suffers from Crohn´s disease but mentioned that it wasn´t the cause of his illness. Also not COVID related.
On court fit is great but he might be one of the few players with even bigger health concerns than KP.
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