2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[KillerLeft]

I'm out on all this talk of DFS and Maxi trading.

[sefant]

I'm out on all this talk of DFS and Maxi trading.  Lets find a third team (charlotte) and do an effective swap KP for Turner (and prolly Lamb for salary matching).  Turner and two defensive wings (DFS and Bullock) allows us to have a plus defense while starting Luka and Brunson.  That also drops payroll by 16 mil, which gets us most of the way to avoiding tax and still signing DFS and Brunson.

I said it already on the Discord. Maxi and Brunson are pretty close. Like friendship beyond basketball close. Not saying Brunson leaves, if you get rid of Kleber. But it might make his decision a little easier, if he has 2nd thoughts about staying.

You rarely ever seen team mates spend time together in the offseason during vacation.



https://www.instagram.com/p/CSer4thrRI2/



Friendships can totally sway free agency in one or the other direction.

[sterlingmallory]

IMO THJ, KP, Powell are the players to move.

So the guys that have zero trade value. Got it. I don't want to see any of you that refuse to even consider trading someone like DFS or Maxi be upset when the trade deadline passes and nothing gets done and news starts to come out that the Mavs dangled THJ, KP, and Powell but couldn't find any takers. No one wants our overpaid role players.

[fifteenth]

I'm out on all this talk of DFS and Maxi trading.  Lets find a third team (charlotte) and do an effective swap KP for Turner (and prolly Lamb for salary matching).  Turner and two defensive wings (DFS and Bullock) allows us to have a plus defense while starting Luka and Brunson.  That also drops payroll by 16 mil, which gets us most of the way to avoiding tax and still signing DFS and Brunson.

/end

[dirkfansince1998]

So the guys that have zero trade value. Got it. I don't want to see any of you that refuse to even consider trading someone like DFS or Maxi be upset when the trade deadline passes and nothing gets done and news starts to come out that the Mavs dangled THJ, KP, and Powell but couldn't find any takers. No one wants our overpaid role players.

Nostalgia. That´s how it is done in Dallas. And five years later Cuban will tell us that the Mavs nearly traded for ... (insert random star player like Shaq, Kobe, Howard).

[burekemde]

So the guys that have zero trade value. Got it. I don't want to see any of you that refuse to even consider trading someone like DFS or Maxi be upset when the trade deadline passes and nothing gets done and news starts to come out that the Mavs dangled THJ, KP, and Powell but couldn't find any takers. No one wants our overpaid role players.

Its a fine argument. It can also be turned around. If Maxi and DFS were on other teams, they would be many of ours prime targets. Why trade the players with great value and risk to get some in return that are not? The key is to keep the players that do well and that are fit with Luka. Its not only making a trade, for the sake of making a trade. But improve as a team.

Need to keep the great players that fit, and trade the ones that dont. If they have less value, they have less value, then we need to be better identifying who we can realistically trade them for and perhaps lower the expectations somewhat. Im am convinced with the KP, Powell and THJ we could make something happen to improve us. A player that is a better fit.

In the strategy you suggest, the huge risk is keep further piling on players that are not a fit, and trading away those that are a fit, which increases the team related issues.

[fifteenth]

o the guys that have zero trade value. Got it. I don't want to see any of you that refuse to even consider trading someone like DFS or Maxi be upset when the trade deadline passes and nothing gets done and news starts to come out that the Mavs dangled THJ, KP, and Powell but couldn't find any takers. No one wants our overpaid role players.

I've only listed one guy that I wouldn't trade. And I didn't actually say I wouldn't trade him. I'm sure I have my price. But I wouldn't trade him for Turner. That was the discussion.

[ClutchDirk]

Yeah...the trade might be Turner for DFS/Cow/Killer/Fifteenth  

That might actually make the deal even more attractive to some folks around here! 

---

Yeah. I viewed it as the Mavs beginning to step into the present regarding roster building. It was just a few days ago that we were in awe of what a stable of long wings can do on a basketball court together. It was just a few years ago that we only had munchkins and bigs.

I offer to drive everyone to the airport...

[fifteenth]

I offer to drive everyone to the airport...

You coming with us?

[sterlingmallory]

Its a fine argument. It can also be turned around. If Maxi and DFS were on other teams, they would be many of ours prime targets. Why trade the players with great value and risk to get some in return that are not? The key is to keep the players that do well and that are fit with Luka. Its not only making a trade, for the sake of making a trade. But improve as a team.

Need to keep the great players that fit, and trade the ones that dont. If they have less value, they have less value, then we need to be better identifying who we can realistically trade them for and perhaps lower the expectations somewhat. Im am convinced with the KP, Powell and THJ we could make something happen to improve us. A player that is a better fit.

In the strategy you suggest, the huge risk is keep further piling on players that are not a fit, and trading away those that are a fit, which increases the team related issues.

Let me be clear: I don't want to trade DFS or Maxi. I am well aware of how valuable they are to the team on and off the court. They're our homegrown guys and I love them both. DFS might be our most versatile defender and Maxi is a defensive anchor. I don't want to make a trade simply to make a trade. I don't want to dump them for nothing, get rid of them, send them away, or whatever some may call it. I will be the first to praise Nico if we're able to get some kind of value by trading THJ, KP, or Powell instead. I simply subscribe to the theory that you have to break some eggs to make an omelet. 

Marc Stein has already said that THJ has basically no value around the league because of how poorly he's played this year and his contract. With KP's contract and injury history, the best we can probably hope for is a trade for someone on an equally awful contract. Siakam is a name I've seen thrown around and that would probably be the absolute best case scenario. But it would not surprise me at all though if the only options on the table ended up being someone like Gordon Hayward, Tobias Harris, or Kevin Love. As for Powell, he has negative value. He's a backup center at best on any other team, we'd have to attach assets to move him.

I happen to think Turner would be a difference maker for this team. We have quite possibly the worst center rotation in the league with Powell, Moses, WCS who hasn't even played in a month, Boban, and Chriss (Who I really like btw, I just don't see him as a starter). I think Turner would be a major upgrade over all of them. I think he would put up much better numbers here than he has in Indiana since he wouldn't have to share with Sabonis, he'd be a focal point in the PnR with Luka and Brunson.

I too hope Nico can pull a rabbit out of his hat and fleece someone into giving up real value for THJ or KP, I'm just not counting on it at all. Maybe we can pull off a smaller trade and improve around the margins, but if we want to get a real difference maker, then we have to be prepared to make some hard decisions.

[KillerLeft]

but if we want to get a real difference maker, then we have to be prepared to make some hard decisions.

Of course. 

I, personally, don't think Turner is enough to let go of DFS. You seem to believe DFS is worth more than KP. If that's true, fine, but the other half of the board is trying to speak DFS into the deal as a means to keep Porzingis, which is nut bar factor 7 to me. I flatly do not want Turner here if KP is still going to be here. In that scenario, I believe the team becomes worse than it is now. 

I would LOVE Turner here instead of KP, playing WITH DFS.

[cow]

I assume if MT is "worth" "multiple firsts" on the market, then DFS should be as well. So a straight swap should then be fair.

I see you are brainwashed by the old MBT and want to continue losing trades.

[sterlingmallory]

Of course. 

I, personally, don't think Turner is enough to let go of DFS. You seem to believe DFS is worth more than KP. If that's true, fine, but the other half of the board is trying to speak DFS into the deal as a means to keep Porzingis, which is nut bar factor 7 to me. I flatly do not want Turner here if KP is still going to be here. In that scenario, I believe the team becomes worse than it is now. 

I would LOVE Turner here instead of KP, playing WITH DFS.

Yes on all points. I definitely believe DFS has more value throughout the league than KP. By far. I also agree that Turner and KP are an awkward fit. Personally, I like Kamm's idea of a Turner trade as a precursor to a KP for Siakam trade. Turner/Siakam/Bullock/Luka/Brunson would be SALTY.

Absolutely, if we could get someone like Turner without including DFS then I'm all for it. If a miracle falls into our lap then by all means. As for Turner's value, we seem to disagree and that's perfectly ok. I think Turner is a perfect fit, but if you don't, at least not enough to include DFS in a deal, that's ok too. 

I think we all more or less agree on the general roster makeup we should be seeking, which is playmakers Luka and Brunson surrounded by versatile, athletic wings that can defend and hit 3s, and a rim running, defensive anchor big. It seems the disagreement is on how we get there. I think Turner would check that last box, and I think even if we had to trade DFS, we'd still have some good wings in Bullock, S Brown, Green, Frank, and THJ I guess to finish out the season and then we could focus on picking up another wing in the offseason with the MLE. If we could pull off a trade of KP for Siakam then all the better. I'd definitely be open to hear what you think would be some realistic trade alternatives though.

[KillerLeft]

As for Turner's value, we seem to disagree and that's perfectly ok. I think Turner is a perfect fit, but if you don't, at least not enough to include DFS in a deal, that's ok too. 

Well, that's just it. I'm not sure we disagree about the value.

Do I think Turner is worth DFS+? Yeah, sure. 

Do I think TWO big trades will happen, one as a "precursor" for the other? Absolutely not. That's delusion. 

So, if KP isn't outgoing as part of the deal that brings Turner in, I don't want Turner. 

Another way of saying it: I'm not sure Turner is such a difference maker that you do what you have to do to get him and figure out how the pieces fit later. I'd do that for KAT, Gobert, etc, but not for Turner. 

Where we might disagree is that I think DFS is valuable enough to THIS team for me to be super gun-shy using him as a pawn to make a move that doesn't immediately make the team EASIER to figure out on paper. Value-wise, I get the idea, but as far as the state the roster would be left in (for the remainder of this season, I'd bet) HELL NO.

DFS is the only player of his type on this roster. There is no other. SBrown is the closest. I think they should be trying to ADD another player like him to help, not move the one they have.

[fifteenth]

Yes on all points. I definitely believe DFS has more value throughout the league than KP. By far. I also agree that Turner and KP are an awkward fit. Personally, I like Kamm's idea of a Turner trade as a precursor to a KP for Siakam trade. Turner/Siakam/Bullock/Luka/Brunson would be SALTY.

Absolutely, if we could get someone like Turner without including DFS then I'm all for it. If a miracle falls into our lap then by all means. As for Turner's value, we seem to disagree and that's perfectly ok. I think Turner is a perfect fit, but if you don't, at least not enough to include DFS in a deal, that's ok too. 

I think we all more or less agree on the general roster makeup we should be seeking, which is playmakers Luka and Brunson surrounded by versatile, athletic wings that can defend and hit 3s, and a rim running, defensive anchor big. It seems the disagreement is on how we get there. I think Turner would check that last box, and I think even if we had to trade DFS, we'd still have some good wings in Bullock, S Brown, Green, Frank, and THJ I guess to finish out the season and then we could focus on picking up another wing in the offseason with the MLE. If we could pull off a trade of KP for Siakam then all the better. I'd definitely be open to hear what you think would be some realistic trade alternatives though.

Except that none of our other wings can play the DFS role. That's the disconnect.

[KillerLeft]

Except that none of our other wings can play the DFS role. That's the disconnect.

Yeah, I'm shocked that we're 40 games in and people are still comparing Bullock to DFS. They are very different players. 

THJ and Bullock are a much better comparison for debate, imo. Same level of physicality. Same positional comfort. Both have a quick release. That's the comparison and the competition, imho. One of THEM is in Green's way, not DFS. 

DFS has no current competitor on this squad that I can see. SBrown and Kleber are the closest, but he's like a combo of the two.

[KillerLeft]

I would put DFS in a deal for Ben Simmons, if that was real. Simmons would be an improvement to DFS in some key DFS areas, and Philly is supposedly interested in DeAndre Hunter, so we know they want a replacement for those areas of Simmons' game.

[fifteenth]

Yeah, I'm shocked that we're 40 games in and people are still comparing Bullock to DFS. They are very different players. 

THJ and Bullock are a much better comparison for debate, imo. Same level of physicality. Same positional comfort. Both have a quick release. That's the comparison and the competition, imho. One of THEM is in Green's way, not DFS. 

DFS has no current competitor on this squad that I can see. SBrown and Kleber are the closest, but he's like a combo of the two.

No doubt, pal. To add to your astute offering, there's no way you can get DFS like consistency and work load while hitting shots, maintaining efficiency,  making people pay on closeouts, anchoring the D, glue guy hustle and unselfishness out of anyone on this roster, or out of very many guys in the L. 

People talk like he's still one of our fringe starters. If you can do all that he does while maintaining his energy level and impact at 35 min. per night then you're in high quality starter territory. If a glue guy can become a star, then he appears to be on that tract.

[Kammrath]

DFS

[KillerLeft]