2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[KillerLeft]

But it would also be to KL's benefit to do the longer deal. The point was, the shorter deal is disadvantageous for BOTH parties.

@"F Gump" I guess the question with this becomes: what has changed in Leonard's situation this summer from the one when he signed a 2+1 with the Clippers? In your mind, is it just about the injury?

[KillerLeft]

I'm on Killerleft island!

It's a continent, my guy. All are welcome.

[Scott41theMavs]

5 days until the draft; 9 days until free agency. Single digits, people! Hope Nico has been workin' hard...

[F Gump]

@"F Gump" I guess the question with this becomes: what has changed in Leonard's situation this summer from the one when he signed a 2+1 with the Clippers? In your mind, is it just about the injury?

The whole situation has changed.

When he did the deal with the Clipps, he was signing at the 30% max salary tier, and all the years on that deal would be based on that 30%. He knew he would be eligible for 35% in any new deal after 2 years.

So he signed for 2 years to get him to that 35% tier, so he could then sign for a long-term deal where he's getting paid at 35%.

This is that 35% tier deal he planned for, with teams ready and still willing to pay him for as long as the rules allow. That would be 4 years total (with the 4th potentially an option year).

The fact that he has also dealt with significant injury issues for a few years that haven't gone away, combined with the fact he is currently sidelined by major injury, is yet another incentive that didn't exist before, to lock in the longest full-max deal possible "just in case."

When I add all that up, I don't see any incentive for him to want a shorter deal. It just wouldn't make sense.

[KillerLeft]

The whole situation has changed.

When he did the deal with the Clipps, he was signing at the 30% max salary tier, and all the years on that deal would be based on that 30%. He knew he would be eligible for 35% in any new deal after 2 years.

So he signed for 2 years to get him to that 35% tier, so he could then sign for a long-term deal where he's getting paid at 35%.

This is that 35% tier deal he planned for, with teams ready and still willing to pay him for as long as the rules allow. That would be 4 years total (with the 4th potentially an option year).

The fact that he has also dealt with significant injury issues for a few years that haven't gone away, combined with the fact he is currently sidelined by major injury, is yet another incentive that didn't exist before, to lock in the longest full-max deal possible "just in case."

When I add all that up, I don't see any incentive for him to want a shorter deal. It just wouldn't make sense.

Thanks, this makes sense!

It's that 30%-35% shift that I don't believe is common knowledge. If I'm reading you correctly, 35% is the FINAL plateau, right? There's no higher level that kicks in after two more years in the league?

If not, I can totally see why he'd sign a longer deal. Makes all the sense in the world.

[vfromlmf]

When I add all that up, I don't see any incentive for him to want a shorter deal. It just wouldn't make sense.

The incentive could easily come from the Mavs if he signs a one-year deal for $39.2 million here with the understanding that he'll sit out the season to rehab, and then sign a five-year deal for $243 million next summer. That's the most he can make over the next six years under any circumstance. Of course this would require that he works out this deal with a front office he can trust since only the rehab year can be contractually guaranteed. This is precisely why the Cuban hired Nico.

[StepBackJay]

5 days until the draft; 9 days until free agency. Single digits, people! Hope Nico has been workin' hard...

9 days til Collins is a Mav!

[Scott41theMavs]

The incentive could easily come from the Mavs if he signs a one-year deal for $39.2 million here with the understanding that he'll sit out the season to rehab, and then sign a five-year deal for $243 million next summer. That's the most he can make over the next six years under any circumstance. Of course this would require that he works out this deal with a front office he can trust since only the rehab year can be contractually guaranteed. This is precisely why the Cuban hired Nico.

!!! Sounds like a great way to have him clog our cap in our final pre-Luka-max summer and then have him walk next summer. This is Kawhi we're talking about.

[ClutchDirk]

It's a continent, my guy. All are welcome.

https://media.giphy.com/media/26ufffLixT.../giphy.gif

[Mapka]

I said it was disadvantageous to the Mavs in a "this way vs the alternative" point. They would be better off in their roster-building plans with the longer deal. But it would also be to KL's benefit to do the longer deal. The point was, the shorter deal is disadvantageous for BOTH parties.

...You make it into some sort of animus between the Mavs and Kawhi, where he's pushing for a shorter deal to somehow spite them. As I noted, that is contradictory, because he won't sign here in the first place if he doesn't decide he likes what they are offering. 

Yes, sometimes players do shorter deals than the max length possible, but it is ALWAYS in the context of timing for when it's best to be a free agent again. His deal with the Clipps - it was set up to end the moment he hit the 35% max tier. There was a reason. This time, there's no compelling reason for him to want a shorter-than-full-length deal guaranteed, and definite reasons (an added $~50M guaranteed no matter what) why he is more likely to prefer longer.

I don't see why he signs here in the first place.

But yes he might sign the 3+1 if he looks at it the same way you do. Just for maximal safe money this is the way.

I think he takes it for granted to get a new max in 2 years. It's also when LeBrons contract is over - you don't know what he is timing about.

To be fair I'm really twisted if I would want him here.

[Scott41theMavs]

4 days left until the draft, 8 until free agency.

[sterlingmallory]

With the news about re-signing THJ being a priority it seems pretty clear the Mavs want to operate as an over the cap team this summer. I expect them to pursue a sign and trade for one big FA, re-sign THJ, then go after someone with the MLE. Not a bad plan. You have some flexibility there. You could try to get a guard in a SnT then maybe snag Noel with the MLE to be your big. Or just the opposite, get someone like Holmes in SnT and maybe get Dragic with the MLE. As long as Schroeder isn't our big SnT acquisition I'll be happy.

[DanSchwartzgan]

With the news about re-signing THJ being a priority it seems pretty clear the Mavs want to operate as an over the cap team this summer. I expect them to pursue a sign and trade for one big FA, re-sign THJ, then go after someone with the MLE. Not a bad plan. You have some flexibility there. You could try to get a guard in a SnT then maybe snag Noel with the MLE to be your big. Or just the opposite, get someone like Holmes in SnT and maybe get Dragic with the MLE. As long as Schroeder isn't our big SnT acquisition I'll be happy.

Totally agree about Schroeder.  Unfortunately, Holmes is very unlikely to be a S&T candidate as Sacramento can’t get to the number it would likely take.  I’m a Holmes fan, but he doesn’t work in an over the cap scenario.  If he’s the target, we use room there, S&T somewhere else and only have the R-MLE left instead of the full MLE.

[HAguiar95]

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status...6755710976

[omahen]

I think that part about teams wanting to go for it is very important. Rarely is league so equal without a clear super team. I guess at least some 10-15 teams can seriously consider themselves as possible champs.

[Kammrath]

I think that part about teams wanting to go for it is very important. Rarely is league so equal without a clear super team. I guess at least some 10-15 teams can seriously consider themselves as possible champs.

100% agree. 

It seems that draft picks might be devalued because of that. Teams want win now players and there are few of those in the draft. I think the top of the draft will be very expensive, I think by #9 to the middle of the first round the value will be lower than normal. Just a guess.

[cow]

I think that part about teams wanting to go for it is very important. Rarely is league so equal without a clear super team. I guess at least some 10-15 teams can seriously consider themselves as possible champs.

Isn't Cuban found of saying he likes to zig when other teams zag?

Mavs having interest in Dennis makes me uneasy.  The Jason Kidd connection is there so it wouldn't surprise me either.  He also check the defense and secondary playmaker checkboxes.  I just think he wants WAY too much money and he seems like the type of personality that will quickly wear out his welcome.

[ClutchDirk]

Dirk hopefully will tell them to pass on Schroder...

[omahen]

I just think he wants WAY too much money and he seems like the type of personality that will quickly wear out his welcome.

As far as money go I think he is just blackmailing Lakers that don't have any other way to keep the talent. Schroeder at 25 mil might be still better than nothing if your only focus is short term success.

Paying him that kind of money would be crazy for Mavs and I think (trully hope) we are discussing 15b per max (if Mavs are really even considering him).

[Mavs2021]

With regards to the Schroeder talk. Conspiracy theory 1.0.1. I found it very odd that Dennis Schroeder was the only big free agent professional athlete, that failed to secure an insurance deal for the summer events. The soccer players competing in the Euros, Copa America and all the other Olympic athletes managed to do it, but Schroeder failed.  So I wonder which owner hates FIBA more than anything else. So insurance problems or huge guaranteed Mavs offer contingent on not playing in the (pre) Olympics? 

Maybe I was right about the THJ S&T to Lakers just not the player coming back.