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Anyone else concerned about Porzingis?
#61
(11-03-2019, 02:15 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:
(11-03-2019, 09:35 AM)Fuerza1 Wrote: KP's much closer to a Josh Howard or Michael Finley.   


Now THATS a take.

I vehemently disagree. Neither J-Ho or Fin ever averaged anything close to KP, nor were as complete as a player as KP is. The only time either of them were close to KP was Fin in 1999-00, putting up up 22 and 6.

KP is a legit franchise cornerstone. . .
Finley at his peak was a 21 ppg scorer with 6 rpg, and 5 assists on a WINNING team. Josh Howard at his peak was a 2-way stud averaging 18-20 ppg on a WINNING team. This is not a diss because both those guys were all-star caliber players in their prime. 

I should have elaborated that he's much closer to their tier than say Dirk for example, who many have compared KP to. Maybe Pau Gasol if you want a non-Mav example.

With all due respect, Porzingis hasn't proven anything yet. His best season was when he played 48 games and averaged 21 ppg on a losing Knicks team. He was named an all-star but it was in the East. How many all-star appearances do we think KP gets in the next few years? He's competing with Towns, Davis, Jokic, Gobert, and several other up and coming big's like Ayton, JJJ, Zion*, etc. 

It seems like many are valuing talent over actual production. I believe in KP but we need to see more if you're wishing to throw the franchise player tag on him. I think he's plenty good enough to be the Robin on a championship team, I just don't see elite player. 

(11-03-2019, 03:14 PM)HugoStick Wrote: People are overreacting way too early in the season. To suggest that he's more Michael Finley or Josh Howard is really underselling the talent he has. The guy is getting re-acclimated into the league after being out for 2 years, and is having to learn how to play with someone like Luka, which is he also not familiar with.

Like you say, he's easily a franchise player. No amount of practice is going to recreate the same experience they get by playing in actual games, so no reason to expect that even being here last year means he is going to be completely integrated into the offense. He's going to have to continue working with Luka and RC to figure out the best way to get him the shots he needs, especially now with some real games under his belt.  

We must give this duo time for their potential to blossom.
It's way too early, this is all for conversation's sake so I suggest taking everything with a grain of salt. 

But if saying he's closer to Howard or Finley is an overreaction. . . then saying he's easily a franchise player is also an overreaction.
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#62
(11-03-2019, 05:50 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: With all due respect, Porzingis hasn't proven anything yet. His best season was when he played 48 games and averaged 21 ppg on a losing Knicks team. He was named an all-star but it was in the East.


Oh, you mean his third season in the league? I guess if that isn't proving anything to you, not much will, regardless of the conference he's in. It certainly points closer to franchise player than second or third banana on a winning team. 

He's technically in the second half of his 3rd season in the league, with the added benefit of seeing league play in the lockerroom, up close and personal for a year and a half. We can also just call it what it is, his 4th year in the league. Following up an all star performance the last year he was playing. He's not far off his numbers from that year. Some of the numbers are better, others worse. I suspect he'll end the season with improved numbers as he gets further and further into it.

I feel like some of those with this type of take are in some way threatened that KP takes away from their Luka love-fest so they feel the need to break KP down in order to prop Luka up more. I don't know who specifically this would be, just a hunch due to the amount of traction this type of take is getting.
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#63
KP should try working with Dirk/Holger for some weeks. If he doesn't already.
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#64
Posting this here again because might be even more relevant...

Well am I the only one who is concerned about the obvious lack of chemistry between him and Luka?

If you asked me at the end of last year, I would not have been sure who's team this will be because KP was SO good at times with the Knicks and I feared, Luka might cool down next season, because he will get more and more attention from defense and KP will take some of his touches.

But this is not the case, Luka still looks like the ultimate price and a future MVP (future like maybe already next year) - he is just beyond words as a 20 y/o.

I hope I am overreacting and it all has to do with KP getting back into form after sitting out so long and maybe ever more so, with KP and Luka not being adjusted yet to one another - chemistry will come.

BUT, and this is my essential question, are there any signs about them not getting along? At times it looks as if Luka's ignoring KP and he tries to involve others more. Could as well be the case that this is on KP and him being not in synch offensively. I hope I am seeing things that are not there, but me feeling is they are not that close (e.g. high fiving each other and all that shit). Or are there any rumors/signs that support this nightmare? Because the only thing that can stop us from being a great young team with a bright and immediate future would be some drama between KP and Luka - because Luka is too good to share the spotlight.
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#65
(11-01-2019, 11:58 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: He has potential to be a very good player, but maybe not great.  He has a bit of awkwardness to his game and tries to do too much. Rebound, defense, spot up threes, and one quick move should be his trademarks.  He can even shoot over people.  But, when he tries to put the ball on the floor or make elaborate moves on offense, or even post up. . . disaster.  He’s definitely not a closer like AD.  On the plus side, he’s a better defender than people think.  He does share the ball.  Seems like a good teammate.  I think he’s probably closer to third wheel than second.  If he can simplify and refine his game, maybe he becomes a true Robin.
 
Not sure why the Mavs would even want anything else from him. If Porzingis drags the C out of the middle, it should be perfect for the Mavs. Luka can go to the rim and do whatever the f*** he wants. We have Kleber and DFS to rim-run, grab offensive boards and spot up for three alongside Curry. That seems a pretty simple, but tailor-made gameplan for our current roster.
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#66
(11-05-2019, 05:15 AM)meistermatze Wrote: Well am I the only one who is concerned about the obvious lack of chemistry between him and Luka?


As I have explained elsewhere:

  • Luka is about generating offense through the pick and roll.
  • KP is below average (even bad) as a pick and roll partner.
This is the source of their lack of chemistry. I do not think KP has ever really learned HOW to be a good pick and roll partner. It will take time.
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#67
The biggest concern with Porzingis is his body and durability.  He is moving very well.  Every time he falls down it scares me as I look at those legs.  But so far he has been fine.  As far as production his biggest shortcoming has been shot selection.  He has a ton of talent but he doesn’t have that ability yet to do what dirk did which is to put up a series of moves.  Neither did dirk early in his career.  Once KP gets a rhythm he looks unstoppable but run a double team from a blind angle and he can lose the ball.  All of this is something that will come with time.  His passing is getting better which he couldn’t do before.  I don’t see as much of a gap between him and Davis as some describe, KP is just more raw and slightly too tall.
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#68
We have someone who can be a defensive player of the year outright (not just a hyped up win) while being an elite 3 point shooter. 
So he'll get his fair share of points especially early when defenders are more passive but I dont see him ever becoming an elite Dirk-like scorer. And that's fine.
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#69
(11-05-2019, 11:38 AM)Jym Wrote: dont see him ever becoming an elite Dirk-like scorer.


KP's stat line is nearly identical to Dirk's through 3 years, except KP is playing significantly fewer minutes. I can easily see KP averaging 25+ pts per game. The key question is when will the Mavs be able to go to KP for a bucket late in games.... 

When the game is on the line - and teams are forcing the ball out of Doncic's hands - when will Carlisle be able to count on KP to put the ball in the net or draw a foul?

I don't think we really know if KP can handle this role now or not. I haven't seen him carve out a go to spot on the floor or signature move ....but maybe he can and Doncic and the rest of the team just need to figure it out. I think he's still working his way back and the team is still learning how to play together.
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#70
(11-05-2019, 12:05 PM)vfromlmf Wrote:
(11-05-2019, 11:38 AM)Jym Wrote: dont see him ever becoming an elite Dirk-like scorer.


KP's stat line is nearly identical to Dirk's through 3 years, except KP is playing significantly fewer minutes. I can easily see KP averaging 25+ pts per game. The key question is when will the Mavs be able to go to KP for a bucket late in games.... 

When the game is on the line - and teams are forcing the ball out of Doncic's hands - when will Carlisle be able to count on KP to put the ball in the net or draw a foul?

I don't think we really know if KP can handle this role now or not. I haven't seen him carve out a go to spot on the floor or signature move ....but maybe he can and Doncic and the rest of the team just need to figure it out. I think he's still working his way back and the team is still learning how to play together.

Dirk was on a totally different level in terms of efficiency. Dirk had a 60% true shooting percentage in his 3rd year while KP was at 54% 
We dont need KP shooting enough to score 25 ppg if his efficiency stays this low. That would also mean he's wasting energy that he could use more effectively on the defensive end
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#71
our data sample is 6 games
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#72
My concern was zero.....


....it is now measurable. 

But I still feel very confident he gets things figured out. But he has got to get out of his own head.
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#73
(11-11-2019, 09:58 PM)Kammrath Wrote: My concern was zero.....


....it is now measurable. 

But I still feel very confident he gets things figured out. But he has got to get out of his own head.

He is really bad against shorter and quicker guards. Doesn't know how to exploit his height. Especially posting up.
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#74
(11-11-2019, 10:05 PM)omahen Wrote:
(11-11-2019, 09:58 PM)Kammrath Wrote: My concern was zero.....


....it is now measurable.

But I still feel very confident he gets things figured out. But he has got to get out of his own head.

He is really bad against shorter and quicker guards. Doesn't know how to exploit his height. Especially posting up.

Most NBA teams have a guy on staff whose job it is to help fill the lacunae of the games of talented players. That guy is usually known as the head coach.

Not a direct RC bash. But if KP's issues don't get fixed in terms of basketball X's and O's, that will be largely on Rick.
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#75
Porzingis is simply shooting poorly. Hasn't found his shooting touch yet.
Mavericks didn't bring any advantages with the size vs small ball since KP was MIA.

I would have like to see Boban get some minutes with DP missing free throws. Bobi has played well and generally had good + impact but If I expect to see him much in these key games and stretches where the Mavs desperately need to get a few buckets, I'll be disappointed all season since its just not the way Carlisle rolls. He'll play KP but if KP isn't hitting, good luck Luka. You don't really have that other star helper yet.
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#76
(11-11-2019, 10:05 PM)omahen Wrote: He is really bad against shorter and quicker guards. Doesn't know how to exploit his height. Especially posting up.


This is why he should talk to Dirk or work with him if he was able to do so. Dirk used to have this problem, and eventually adapted to it.
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#77
My concern is Porzingis's ball handling skill rather than his shooting...creating own shot is really bad...
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#78
Porzingis still has a long way to go in terms of development. But it's still too early to make any real judgments...he's still getting adjusted not only to the team but also to playing after a long time off. Main goal for him through the 1st half of the season is to avoid injuries and make sure there's no setback
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#79
Kind of worried.. but I told myself to wait til at least feb-march before I make any judgments..

Lets give him some time. We gotta be patient with him. But man.. he looked bad tonight.
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#80
He is struggling mentally, he is a guy prone to overthinking. That's what I got from his interviews. That's definitely a concern.

He needs a clear role and lot of confidence from his environment at the moment. It does not feel like he is getting that. Carlisle might be the wrong coach for him.
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