GAME 11: DAL (6-5) @ NYK (3-9) | 103-106 loss

[donzingis38]

Losing to the Knicks twice is so infuriating. Maybe it's just one of those teams who just have your number. Portland lost to GSW, Clips lost to Pelicans. Maybe time to realize it happens to every team, not just the Mavs.

But anyway, if they beat Toronto tomorrow, all will be forgiven. Let's just get back to winning.

[Fuerza1]

Can’t ban me now

Glad to have you on board, Sporty. It is a breath of fresh air to have your insight, big fan of your posts. BIG FAN!

[BigDirk41]

I think the main reason for the loss is the Knicks just beat us with physicality. They clearly aren't a better team, but they were more physical and definitely gave more effort. As much as I blame RC, the players need to get it together except Luka. He's doing his job. You can't control making all of your shots, but you can control effort for defense and rebounding.

[Davevoid]

Losing to the Knicks twice is so infuriating. Maybe it's just one of those teams who just have your number. Portland lost to GSW, Clips lost to Pelicans. Maybe time to realize it happens to every team, not just the Mavs.

But anyway, if they beat Toronto tomorrow, all will be forgiven. Let's just get back to winning.

Yeah, they played like it was Game 7, both times, lol...

Maxi defended the game winning shot as well as you could, but Morris was always gonna hit that one against the Mavs.

Sucks, but I take solace in the fact that they won't go anywhere under Dolan. If anything, these angry fans should've booed him instead of KP.

[Davevoid]

Powell/Kleber/DFS aren’t significantly better than dudes like Morris/Taj/Randle. They just aren’t. If anything that’s the same mold of players so we can’t expect these rather even matchups to go in our favor more often than not.

For whatever moronic reason we’ve locked ourselves into all these contracts though for years.

While I completely agree with your first statement, you should take a look at their respective salaries:
10/8/4 vs 15/9.8/18

That's nearly twice the amount, at least for this season. So I'd argue that the contracts of these Mavs are easily movable, if you were inclined to do so.

[Thukydides]

This just felt like Warriors-Mavs 07 all over again. Can´t explain, doesn´t make sense and is inevitable. Scrubs like Morris, Randle, Smith all going supernova. Forget about it. On to the next one.

edit: one thing I´d like to add. I don´t like this Luka sitting for ages coming off a great 3rd. Coming back with 5 min left, he has no time to get back into a rhythm. Hope that changes.

[burekemde]

It was a massive mistake to take Luka out, being in that kind of momentum. You never take out a player that just made so many unbelievable plays and changed the momentum of the game. By doing that you change the momentum the other way. Had he played to start the 4th we might have had a 10 point lead in 4th.

I agree with minutes should be looked at and players not overplayed. But the exception to the rule is when they get it going that great, you never do it. Play Luka and win the game and on to the next one.

[SleepingHero]

Hey fif, just wanted to let you know I just read your reply and it was as good as expected, seriously great stuff. Haven't been able to type up my response due to being stuck in a lab all day. I'll reply ASAP when I get out.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Sure, we have more talent than the Knicks and underperformed tonight yet again.

The issue though remains the overall talent level Imo. We‘ve extended/signed all these bench players and the result you will get is inconsistency.

Powell/Kleber/DFS aren’t significantly better than dudes like Morris/Taj/Randle. They just aren’t. If anything that’s the same mold of players so we can’t expect these rather even matchups to go in our favor more often than not.

For whatever moronic reason we’ve locked ourselves into all these contracts though for years.

80% of the blame is on the front office Imo for their work this last June/July. We had $30M but ended up without a third starter. They also didn’t set us up for the future with their complete neglect of picking up assets (Iggy + 1st attached, Harkless + 1st......both wings who could have helped now and the picks could have boosted our chances in trades).

Carslisle isn’t without his faults but he’s still the same coach he was for years. I’d happily move on from him in general but that would have nothing to do with his performances this year.

This team takes a lot of 3s.  They did that last year. They add a 7’3” guy and are still doing it.  That is on the coach. 

Live and die by the 3 is not a good offense when you have two legit stars who can get a closer shot.  RC should demand more from the players in getting better shots. The fans should demand more from RC in seeing a more hard working offense out there.

The Mavs are heavily reliant on analytics.  They're not going to stop taking 3s.  I doubt it's coming from the coach.  Probably an organizational philosophy.

Rick hasn't been great but

1.  this roster isn't that talented.  I mean posters are clamoring for 2nd round pick Brunson, couldn't make it on the Kings Jackson, and 35 year old coming off an achilles tear Barea to get more playing time.  

2.  KP isn't playing like a star.  If he was, maybe he could elevate the play of the mediocre guys on the roster.  Right now, we just have one star.  That's not enough when the rest of your players are meh.

This is a .500 talent team until KP plays at an all-star level.

---

As for Carlisle...

this team was predicted to win between 39-45 games.  Most people had them around 41-41.

So if they win 35, I'm on board with firing Carlisle.  

I think most people on here are severely overestimating the talent on this roster based on the 5-1 start.

[mtrot]

I think the main reason for the loss is the Knicks just beat us with physicality. They clearly aren't a better team, but they were more physical and definitely gave more effort. As much as I blame RC, the players need to get it together except Luka. He's doing his job. You can't control making all of your shots, but you can control effort for defense and rebounding.

Agreed.  But you can't match another player's physicality if you don't have the NBA body to match up.  For whatever reason, it seems like the Mavs end up with too many players that are physically outmatched.

[SportPsychMav]

New record. Gamethread with most posts.

[StepBackJay]

I think the main reason for the loss is the Knicks just beat us with physicality. They clearly aren't a better team, but they were more physical and definitely gave more effort. As much as I blame RC, the players need to get it together except Luka. He's doing his job. You can't control making all of your shots, but you can control effort for defense and rebounding.

Agreed.  But you can't match another player's physicality if you don't have the NBA body to match up.  For whatever reason, it seems like the Mavs end up with too many players that are physically outmatched.

Mavs are pillow soft right now. We need a guy with some toughness in there.

[TXBamanut]

While Kristapps plays less than we expected and still tries to find his way.

Here's his stats this year.
18.5 pts/g (36.1% 3Pt), 8.2 r/g, 1.6 a/g, 2.5 blcks/game

His career stats
17.8 pts/g (36.1% 3Pt), 7.1 r/g, 1.3 a/g, 2.1 blcks/game

He's up in almost EVERY category from his career stats.

Before he went down with injury...
22.7 pts/g (39.5% 3Pt), 6.6 r/g, 1.2 a/g, 2.4 blcks/game

He's ahead of every category except points and 3 PT%...

We all worried about the rebounding this year, but the Mavs as a team...
5th in the NBA in rebounding
11th in Defensive rebounding, 5th in Offensive rebounding

That's not bad.

Surprising to me...
18th in 3 Pt% as a team
22nd in blocks as a team

[SleepingHero]

I think the inconsistent rotations are part of playing the long game. The team is trying to see what it has and what combinations work best all while trying to get KP up to speed and integrated AND trying to get Powell up to speed and integrated. The reinsertion of Powell and the mini slump of KP were both kind of momentum disrupters I think. 

The use of the 3 pt shot is a team philosophy decision. The team has decided to have all their players practice 3 pt shooting relentlessly, and the team is learning an offense that should result in open 3s. The problem at the moment is learning the offense and each other such that players know which shots are the right shots to take and have the confidence to step in to those shots. If the players still don't know which shots to take and still can't hit those shots at a better than current clip in a couple of months then I'd be surprised and concerned. 

I think that's a smart take. Obviously the addition of Powell has complicated things. The Mavs were 3-1 before Powell came back and since he's come back he's been a net negative player on defense and offense. Add on the slump of KP, which is to be expected of a dude coming back from 18 months, we have an offense that's hemorrhaging with no sort of consistency. Also doesn't help that the bench is DOA since Powell as well. Perhaps the Mavs were too hasty bringing Powell back?

However, while the 3 happy offense is obviously the philosophy the Mavs are subscribing too, I don't think it's the best choice. This roster isn't comprised of elite shot makers. The Mavs are trying to copy the GSW/HOU method, without actually having the majority of the roster able to hit the 3. DFS, THJ, Luka, Maxi, Powell, Wright etc. ALL are subpar to downright terrible 3 point shooters. Which lends the question as to why are the Mavs forcing this system when the obviously don't have the personnel to run it? Had they gotten Kemba or Danny Green, it'd be different.

It takes time to nip things in the bud. And it takes time to integrate new players in a meaningful way. Steering a team is more like navigating a ship than turning a zero turn mower. I'm not disputing that the team looks bad. But my conclusion isn't that they've failed, it's that this is a work in progress. Rick answered a Luka/KP pnr question recently and it sounds like that part of their game isn't ready for prime time quite yet. You're listing lots of issues (because they exist!) and saying that they've failed to address the issues. But doesn't the fact that there are a lot of issues imply that it will take some time to address all the issues. This isn't easy stuff. Luka and KP are going to be together for a long time. it's going to take a least a little bit of time to craft their two man game. 

You're right and I agree. While I think they've failed to pinpoint specific areas to improve game to game, I'm not expecting EVERYTHING to be resolved in 1 night. But it irks me that Carlisle continues to play Powell and THJ heavy minutes. Powell has the 4th most mpg on the roster, despite being relatively one of the worst performers on the roster. I do think something as simple as playing Kleber more than Powell is relatively minor transition with huge upside and can be done overnight, but Carlisle has frigid rotations.

I think Seth should play more, but at the same time, I think THJ got some of his minutes the other day because he wouldn't take a shot. Seth's amazing shooting doesn't work if Seth doesn't shoot.

I can see wanting for Luka to play more like 8 or 9 minutes in the 4th, rather than 6. But Luka came in with a one point lead and orchestrated several turnovers and bad possessions in a row. Luka is so awesomely amazing that I hesitate to pin anything on him, but last night, he could have executed better down the stretch. He's MVP, contention for best Mav ever level great, but he's still learning how to execute in crunch time along with the rest of the team. 

The lack of shots for Luka and KP bugs me too. The turnovers and bad possessions hurt there. I think Rick is probably trying to get Luka to not just play 1 on 5 in crunch time, which is Luka's default sometimes. So maybe in trying to learn that Luka isn't completely comfortable in crunch time yet. Not sure. 

I also think Rick is trying to get Luka to play more team ball, but its a catch 22. Everybody on offense sans Luka looks uncomfortable, and usually when Luka has the ball, we barely have any motion. 2 players stand in the corners while Luka runs a horns PnR set with either Powell or KP, and the other team just doubles Luka. It happens almost every possession and the offense is extremely predictable, and its a symptom to the under performing role players that are out there. So Luka is forced to go 1-5 to try to create something, resulting in terrible turnovers. 

I also think putting him in with 5 minutes left after sitting him for ~20 minutes real time ruins his rhythm. Just cutting down his 3rd quarter minutes and bringing Luka in with 8 mins instead of 5 is such a simple change it puzzles me why Carlisle hasn't tried it. Kawhi, Lebron, AD, and nearly every other super star is playing a minimum 8 minutes in the 4th. 

I'm glad you elaborated your position more because it seems we are largely in agreement. We all recognize the issues at hand, you just have more patience than me    I think if Carlisle just sets more defined roles for each player, the better off we'll be and the quicker people will find their rhythm. Once Seth understands he's going to get at least 23mpg each night, perhaps he won't be so scared to shoot a shot and miss and get pulled. Once THJ is told that he is to stand in the corner and spot up (which surprisingly he's elite at) then maybe he won't take those 18 seconds left-in-the-shotclock 3's.

But it all starts with Carlisle. Lets hope the Mavs make some progress against Toronto.