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RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - Scott41theMavs - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 11:15 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Were the Heat underdogs coming into this series? I don't know the answer, but I feel like they were the clear favorites over Boston. I get how their entire playoff run has been unexpected, but my goodness, if you've been watching the playoffs then you know they've been amazing.
I'm tempted to pick them over the Lakers.
BTW, if you're still holding onto your old Mavs/Heat related hatred, I get it. Just know that you are missing out, because they play hard, they play the right way and they are REALLY fun to watch. Tough to believe I know, but they're the GOOD GUYS right now.
I'm just in awe of Spoelstra's coaching. He and Jimmy have their young team tough and confident. This could be the year that a good *team* wins as opposed to one of these Frankenstein's monsters built by free agency shenanigans. Of course, the same would be true in the unlikely event that Denver or Boston won in the finals. Caveat - although there's a lot of good coaching and drafting going on with the Heat, the way they acquired Butler is certainly Frankenstein-esque.
Anyone else pissed off about this? Eff the Lakers.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakers-present-case-to-nba-saying-lebron-james-is-not-getting-enough-free-throw-attempts-per-report/
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - KillerLeft - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 11:23 AM)omahen Wrote:(09-24-2020, 11:15 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I'm tempted to pick them over the Lakers.
I find it difficult. Lakers are so much bigger and I have a problem to see how they will guard Davis/LeBron. I would be happy if they win, though
Yeah, I agree that the Lakers are much bigger and more physical. This could very well be the deciding factor.
At the same time, the Miami zone is the best zone I've ever seen, and I guarantee they'll play hard more consistently between the two teams. If they're successful keeping Lebron and Davis from getting into the middle of it (big if, I agree) then LA will need those medium contested outside shots to go down. I don't know if I trust some of those Laker role players to hit them.
On the other side, I think Miami does a great job of throwing multiple dribble attackers at you at once, and then they have the Bam high post game with insane cutting. I also wonder whether LA is really ready for that.
Either way, I can't wait to see it!
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - omahen - 09-24-2020
When mentioning Oladipo, I think we need to look at wanna be contenders with high upside youngsters.
Brooklyn with LeVert comes to mind first.
Chicago with Markanen and Porter?
I don't really see Denver giving up MPJ, but Oladipo upgrade over Harris could put them on top.
2 out of Herro/Robinson/Nunn?
#1 pick from Minny? #2 from GSW?
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - fifteenth - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 12:17 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yeah, I agree that the Lakers are much bigger and more physical. This could very well be the deciding factor.
At the same time, the Miami zone is the best zone I've ever seen, and I guarantee they'll play hard more consistently between the two teams. If they're successful keeping Lebron and Davis from getting into the middle of it (big if, I agree) then LA will need those medium contested outside shots to go down. I don't know if I trust some of those Laker role players to hit them.
On the other side, I think Miami does a great job of throwing multiple dribble attackers at you at once, and then they have the Bam high post game with insane cutting. I also wonder whether LA is really ready for that.
Either way, I can't wait to see it!
Hey pal, if you're sitting with Rick, Donnie and Fin and watching Miami's playoff performance, and you guys are free flowing between team buiding talk and offensive and defensive systems talk, what are the take aways from the Heat show that you're pointing out to the Mavs architects?
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - omahen - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 01:12 PM)fifteenth Wrote: what are the take aways from the Heat show that you're pointing out to the Mavs architects?
That we need a "Butler/CP3/Lowry/insert other name" type ring hungry vet leader who will make everyone play defense or eat him alive. Or one of Luka/KP needs to grow up into that.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - Kammrath - 09-24-2020
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1309200964730138626
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - KillerLeft - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 01:12 PM)fifteenth Wrote: Hey pal, if you're sitting with Rick, Donnie and Fin and watching Miami's playoff performance, and you guys are free flowing between team buiding talk and offensive and defensive systems talk, what are the take aways from the Heat show that you're pointing out to the Mavs architects?
Man, that's an interesting question.
Tbh, while I like what they're doing on both ends, systemically, and it's WAY different than what Dallas does, I think that's because the personnel is different and I wouldn't expect Dallas to copy much of it.
I do think their motion/cutting game is farther along. Miami is really good at keeping the ball stationary while running guys like Robinson and Herro off of multiple high screens until they can grab a handoff and get a shot off. It's not an inside/out play at all, as at no point do they even attempt to get the ball into the paint. It's actually weird to watch for a Mavs fan, because the ball stays still while everyone else is running like crazy. Robinson has the quickest release I've ever seen (or remember seeing) so he needs very little space and time to get it off. Herro and Dragic both have the option of flooring the ball if the shot isn't there, and they can both create opportunities for themselves or others off the drive. If all of that is working and the defense has to commit to stopping it, then they even start getting crazy easy cuts into the paint for layups, but when I watch them it seems like the first and primary goal early in games is for Robinson to get 3's off, and then it's all a domino effect from there.
We saw the Mavs try to implement some of that in the regular season, but they abandoned it completely in the bubble, probably because they have nobody to run it. KP is a better offensive player than Bam, but not when it comes to reading a defense and PASSING. So, to do the motion stuff, Bam is more well suited than KP, but there might be potential for KP to get better at it. In theory his shooting ability should make it even harder to guard, but Bam is REALLY gifted, basketball IQ wise, so it's easier said than done.
Goran/Bam pick and roll is used a lot like what the Mavs have Luka do, and it's really effective, but they don't lean on it quite as much as the Mavs do. The Mavs are different, though, in that their entire offense is built around up and comers, and while Miami is young, both Butler and Dragic are VERY experienced players, so if I had to guess I'd say that it's easier for them to apply things they've implemented in practice into real games effectively. I think Carlisle is having to hold back schematically to ensure that the team doesn't fall on their face a bit. If I'm right, we should see more stuff going forward.
Defensively, they have a variety of zone coverages. Their 2-3 zone is similar to the one Carlisle ran in 2011, only WAY more active. Like, those dudes are SCRAMBLING, and so far it has made teams look like fools for at least a 5 minute stretch of every game. It's really, really effective. At some point, they always play a 2-2-1 transition zone for a while, which basically lets them pick up the ball full court without being too vulnerable to long passes. It's really entertaining, but again, I don't think the Mavs are quite ready for that stuff (just my guess). Their main identity, defensively, is their ability to switch everything. Bam can literally guard 1-5, as can Crowder and Butler, tbh. Those three make them TOUGH on defense. Everyone else does a great job of at least playing their role on defense and not being a negative. Honestly, Iguoadala and Kendrick Nunn are the only two rotation players they have who have been ineffective.
I really don't think they've figured out how to do anything Carlisle doesn't know about, it's just that they have more experienced leadership. Both teams are well coached. Both teams move the ball. Dallas has the same "play hard and play for each other" attitude Miami has, they just don't have Butler, Dragic and Crowder to demand that they do that little bit extra to win.
It's true that Bam is a difference maker on defense, but no more so than Luka on offense. Every team's circumstances are different, and good coaches find a way to unbalance the equation in their favor. I thought Dallas played pretty hard on defense in the playoffs, but they just don't always understand how to win. I also think when your leaders (again, Butler, Dragic and Crowder) have been around the block, it's easier to get the young guys to buy into everything they need to do throughout the season in order to be ready to win in the playoffs. Put Herro, Nunn and Robinson on Sacramento, and they're probably still showing skill, but there's no way they're playing like this so early in their careers.
Dallas is going to get there. Experience matters! As I've been saying a lot recently, I fully expect everyone on the team, from Luka all the way down to Cleveland, to have a much better understanding of how to win in the NBA next season, now that they have a playoff series under their belt. Those who are back here, that is.
(09-24-2020, 01:18 PM)omahen Wrote:(09-24-2020, 01:12 PM)fifteenth Wrote: what are the take aways from the Heat show that you're pointing out to the Mavs architects?
That we need a "Butler/CP3/Lowry/insert other name" type ring hungry vet leader who will make everyone play defense or eat him alive. Or one of Luka/KP needs to grow up into that.
Way fewer words than I used, but the same message. Well done.
I'll say this for sure: to say that Carlisle out coached Spoelstra in 2011 is a massive understatement, but if that was the last time you checked in with Spo, you should understand that he's easily one of the best coaches in the NBA these days. Good for him.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - dirkfansince1998 - 09-24-2020
@"KillerLeft"
That´s the kind of high quality post that deserves more than a like. Stick it to the top of the board and force peope to read it again and again.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - KillerLeft - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 03:07 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: @"KillerLeft"
That´s the kind of high quality post that deserves more than a like. Stick it to the top of the board and force peope to read it again and again.
Thanks for the kind words, my dude!
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - Kammrath - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 02:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I thought Dallas played pretty hard on defense in the playoffs
They definitely played harder on D. But they didn't play defense with the relentless tenacity that championship teams do.
It may be an effort thing, but it also may be that they aren't playing on instinct (due to not enough familiarity or a poor scheme?). You play faster when you are working on instinct alone. When you have to think you slow down....a LOT.
And like I say frequently, defense is all about TEAM work. If you have even one guy not doing his part then none of it works and you all look like idiots.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - Scott41theMavs - 09-24-2020
This is more of a draft thing than a league doings thing, but if Miami presumably makes the Finals, how is Okungwu not the #1 pick, or at least top 3? Looks like the next coming of Bam, and probably the surest thing in the draft. Assuming that the teams that pick top three after the trade dust settles are as dumb as they seem to be, I'd love for the Mavs to find a way to get the #4 pick, but there's probably no way for them to do it. I'll copy this post and put it in the draft thread as well.
(09-24-2020, 03:33 PM)Kammrath Wrote:(09-24-2020, 02:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I thought Dallas played pretty hard on defense in the playoffs
They definitely played harder on D. But they didn't play defense with the relentless tenacity that championship teams do.
It may be an effort thing, but it also may be that they aren't playing on instinct (due to not enough familiarity or a poor scheme?). You play faster when you are working on instinct alone. When you have to think you slow down....a LOT.
And like I say frequently, defense is all about TEAM work. If you have even one guy not doing his part then none of it works and you all look like idiots.
Also, the Mavs had to contend with a THJ eating a lot of minutes, whereas the Heat don't have that albatross weighing them down.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 2-1 - Dahlsim - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 11:24 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:(09-24-2020, 11:15 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Were the Heat underdogs coming into this series? I don't know the answer, but I feel like they were the clear favorites over Boston. I get how their entire playoff run has been unexpected, but my goodness, if you've been watching the playoffs then you know they've been amazing.
I'm tempted to pick them over the Lakers.
BTW, if you're still holding onto your old Mavs/Heat related hatred, I get it. Just know that you are missing out, because they play hard, they play the right way and they are REALLY fun to watch. Tough to believe I know, but they're the GOOD GUYS right now.
I'm just in awe of Spoelstra's coaching. He and Jimmy have their young team tough and confident. This could be the year that a good *team* wins as opposed to one of these Frankenstein's monsters built by free agency shenanigans. Of course, the same would be true in the unlikely event that Denver or Boston won in the finals. Caveat - although there's a lot of good coaching and drafting going on with the Heat, the way they acquired Butler is certainly Frankenstein-esque.
Anyone else pissed off about this? Eff the Lakers.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakers-present-case-to-nba-saying-lebron-james-is-not-getting-enough-free-throw-attempts-per-report/
Yeah, this is totally bass ackward.
Quote:Officiating is never entirely even. There is human error inherent in the process. But odds are. If LeBron James is attacking the basket as much as usual, he's getting fouled as often as usual, and the numbers just haven't reflected that so far in this series.
So if your team is coached well to guard Lebron without fouling then the referees are supposed extrapolate backward from the number of calls to start calling more fouls on your team?
What about the possibility that Denver is simply walling up and playing great defense on Lebron who is actually forcing the contact or having to take bad shots? So if Jeremy Grant is playing great defense the referees have to start manufacturing some more foul calls since its not possible the King is simply getting D'd up?
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/mR3dXKpI6P8CA/giphy.gif)
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - KillerLeft - 09-24-2020
Yeah, tbh, I didn't even see Lebron "create contact" in that last game. Just a bunch of bad jumpers and good defense on the few times he did drive. I don't know where the Hell they're coming from with that stuff, because we all know if he was trying he'd get those star whistles.
I guess he just wants whistles for crossing half court with the ball now.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - dirkfansince1998 - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 03:33 PM)Kammrath Wrote: And like I say frequently, defense is all about TEAM work. If you have even one guy not doing his part then none of it works and you all look like idiots.
This. Looking at Boston or Miami. They have a clear identity and a leader that is willing to do the dirty work but also willing to call out his teammates when they screw up. Smart for Boston and Butler for Miami.
Butler earned a reputation as a locker room problem in Minnesota and Philly. Turns out that he just wants to win at all costs and expects the same kind dedication from his teammates.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - omahen - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 04:20 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Butler earned a reputation as a locker room problem in Minnesota and Philly. Turns out that he just wants to win at all costs and expects the same kind dedication from his teammates.
I also think this is exactly the same way CP3 "earned" his reputation. In reality, he had to play with a bunch of clowns on Clippers and with #I play by myself while others stand around and watch me. If I don't have a ball in my hands I don't play. Defense is for pussies" Harden.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - fifteenth - 09-24-2020
CP3 Is a great player, but you can't blame his jerk-ness on anyone but him.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - omahen - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 07:36 PM)fifteenth Wrote: CP3 Is a great player, but you can't blame his jerk-ness on anyone but him.
I honestly didn't see him being a jerk. I saw relevant complaints against underperforming teammates. Like DAJ free throws, Harden style of play. Those were relevant remarks. Not his fault that the "divas" got insulted.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - fifteenth - 09-24-2020
(09-24-2020, 08:05 PM)omahen Wrote:(09-24-2020, 07:36 PM)fifteenth Wrote: CP3 Is a great player, but you can't blame his jerk-ness on anyone but him.
I honestly didn't see him being a jerk.
nonetheless, he is a jerk
He's been in the league since 2005.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - Scott41theMavs - 09-24-2020
Whoa, MPJ passed the ball.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-1 | MIA up 3-1 - KillerLeft - 09-24-2020
Just got home to start the 4th quarter. How's future all star Jerami Grant looking tonight?