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RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - Dahlsim - 09-21-2020
(09-20-2020, 09:44 PM)robillionaire Wrote: really impressive clutch game winning assist by rajon rondo he was truly made for the moment
Rajon was a such a disaster in Dallas. Rondo is another example of the player getting matched to the coach, environment and system to be his most effective.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - KillerLeft - 09-21-2020
(09-21-2020, 12:25 PM)Dahlsim Wrote:(09-20-2020, 09:44 PM)robillionaire Wrote: really impressive clutch game winning assist by rajon rondo he was truly made for the moment
Rajon was a such a disaster in Dallas. Rondo is another example of the player getting matched to the coach, environment and system to be his most effective.
Well, to be fair, he was a disaster in LA until these playoffs. He has been a disaster everywhere, for 8 straight years, until these playoffs.
He's definitely playing well right now, but with him having that great basketball IQ, I feel like he could have made it work (at least better than he did) at any point with any of those coaches. My suspicion is that his issues were at least as internal as they were external.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - Dahlsim - 09-21-2020
(09-21-2020, 12:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:(09-21-2020, 12:25 PM)Dahlsim Wrote:(09-20-2020, 09:44 PM)robillionaire Wrote: really impressive clutch game winning assist by rajon rondo he was truly made for the moment
Rajon was a such a disaster in Dallas. Rondo is another example of the player getting matched to the coach, environment and system to be his most effective.
Well, to be fair, he was a disaster in LA until these playoffs. He has been a disaster everywhere, for 8 straight years, until these playoffs.
He's definitely playing well right now, but with him having that great basketball IQ, I feel like he could have made it work (at least better than he did) at any point with any of those coaches. My suspicion is that his issues were at least as internal as they were external.
I don't disagree at all there. I despised the way Rajon handled Dallas, and I never understood why given the personality of Rick Carlisle a player like Rondo was brought here in the first place.
Rondo is one difficult personality to coach by most accounts but it does make the point of how the right coach and situation can still turn a dud into a deal by getting to that talent.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - Mavs2019 - 09-21-2020
(09-21-2020, 12:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:Completely not true.(09-21-2020, 12:25 PM)Dahlsim Wrote:(09-20-2020, 09:44 PM)robillionaire Wrote: really impressive clutch game winning assist by rajon rondo he was truly made for the moment
Rajon was a such a disaster in Dallas. Rondo is another example of the player getting matched to the coach, environment and system to be his most effective.
Well, to be fair, he was a disaster in LA until these playoffs. He has been a disaster everywhere, for 8 straight years, until these playoffs.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - KillerLeft - 09-21-2020
@"Mavs2019" It's very true, by my definition. Since being traded away from Boston in 2014, the dude has had one stint that was slightly above average: his Sacramento year, right after Dallas (when he had reason to rehab his image a bit, incidentally). This season was "ok" but they obviously didn't win games or make the playoffs. His worst two seasons, by far, were last season and this season in LA (before the playoffs).
Since leaving Boston in 2014, he has played for five teams. Before this season, none of them even attempted to bring him back, to my knowledge, and the Lakers kind of had no choice. Those teams' fans all hated the dude, just like most here did when he was a Maverick.
He was legit the most fan-hated Laker for the past two seasons, and then BOOM - instant change in the playoffs. To me, that's effort. I believe he sees the size of the stage and the chance to win a ring and he's playing hard for the first time in a long time. I think he's a great, extremely talented player, but my suspicion (obviously I don't know him, so this is speculation) is that he's kind of a bad person.
Also, I put NONE of the blame for his Dallas stint on Carlisle. None. Dude quit on the team, and his TEAMMATES (not the coach) voted not to give him a playoff share. Never forget that.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - fifteenth - 09-21-2020
I wonder what the 5 man Mt. Rushmore of hated players for this iteration of our little basketball forum would be.
Without thinking about it much I'll say,
Derek Fisher
Rajon Rondo
Matt Barnes
TAW
Lamar Odom
Dog gone. Where do I put DWade?
Ok...
Rajon Rondo
DWade
Matt Barnes
TAW
Lamar Odom
Now I'm doing the old timers that are even older than me wrong.
Ok...
Rajon Rondo
DWade
Matt Barnes
Kiki
Lamar Odom
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - KillerLeft - 09-21-2020
Am I crazy, or did Kiki WORK here after he retired?
And, I like this game. Who was the dude Cuban hated that one year...Shawn something, I think. Long wing they got from Indiana.
I think it was Shawn Williams?
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - Scott41theMavs - 09-21-2020
(09-21-2020, 12:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:(09-21-2020, 12:25 PM)Dahlsim Wrote:(09-20-2020, 09:44 PM)robillionaire Wrote: really impressive clutch game winning assist by rajon rondo he was truly made for the moment
Rajon was a such a disaster in Dallas. Rondo is another example of the player getting matched to the coach, environment and system to be his most effective.
Well, to be fair, he was a disaster in LA until these playoffs. He has been a disaster everywhere, for 8 straight years, until these playoffs.
He's definitely playing well right now, but with him having that great basketball IQ, I feel like he could have made it work (at least better than he did) at any point with any of those coaches. My suspicion is that his issues were at least as internal as they were external.
Few players in the league have a bigger chip on their shoulder.
(09-21-2020, 02:44 PM)fifteenth Wrote: I wonder what the 5 man Mt. Rushmore of hated players for this iteration of our little basketball forum would be.
Without thinking about it much I'll say,
Derek Fisher
Rajon Rondo
Matt Barnes
TAW
Lamar Odom
Dog gone. Where do I put DWade?
Ok...
Rajon Rondo
DWade
Matt Barnes
TAW
Lamar Odom
Now I'm doing the old timers that are even older than me wrong.
Ok...
Rajon Rondo
DWade
Matt Barnes
Kiki
Lamar Odom
With five guys, that must be the Deep Purple Mount Rushmore.
(09-21-2020, 01:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Also, I put NONE of the blame for his Dallas stint on Carlisle. None. Dude quit on the team, and his TEAMMATES (not the coach) voted not to give him a playoff share. Never forget that.
Far be it from me to contradict anyone's Rondo hate, but there have been whiffs that there are other players around the league who speak very badly of playing for Carlisle to their peers.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - KillerLeft - 09-21-2020
I don't doubt that, @"Scott41theMavs" and I'm sure there have been people with whom he didn't get along. I'm just saying I don't blame him when it comes to Rondo. For any relationship to be productive, both parties have to want it to be.
And, I bet every single coach in the world has players out there blaming their lack of success on them. I suspect it comes with the job. There are also a ton of players saying great things about Carlisle. Instead of the nebulous rumors, I prefer to judge him by what I see.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - fifteenth - 09-21-2020
It doesn't hurt my feelings that a few knuckleheads hate Rick. Or, at least, it doesn't bother me that a few folks who couldn't do what Rick asked of them blame Rick for it.
I'll take coaching chops over likeability.
I mean, Dirk likes him. Luka seems to like him.
Argue with them.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - KillerLeft - 09-21-2020
(09-21-2020, 04:16 PM)fifteenth Wrote: It doesn't hurt my feelings that a few knuckleheads hate Rick. Or, at least, it doesn't bother me that a few folks who couldn't do what Rick asked of them blame Rick for it.
I'll take coaching chops over likeability.
I mean, Dirk likes him. Luka seems to like him.
Argue with them.
Jalon Rose, Stephen Jackson, Shawn Marion, etc, etc, etc.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - Scott41theMavs - 09-21-2020
(09-21-2020, 04:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:(09-21-2020, 04:16 PM)fifteenth Wrote: It doesn't hurt my feelings that a few knuckleheads hate Rick. Or, at least, it doesn't bother me that a few folks who couldn't do what Rick asked of them blame Rick for it.
I'll take coaching chops over likeability.
I mean, Dirk likes him. Luka seems to like him.
Argue with them.
Jalon Rose, Stephen Jackson, Shawn Marion, etc, etc, etc.
Are you putting Shawn Marion in the "likes Carlisle" column? Wow, that's surprising if so. In his first season here, Marion had a beef with Carlisle over being "yanked in and out of the lineup." On the other hand, I'm sure a championship ring lifted his spirits.
Jae Crowder seems to be one of the leading anti-Rick players, which is unfortunate, because it would be nice to have him back in Mav Green. Crowder has some piss and vinegar to him, but I wouldn't call him a knucklehead.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - fifteenth - 09-21-2020
(09-21-2020, 04:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Jalon Rose, Stephen Jackson, Shawn Marion, etc, etc, etc.
You can't put Shawn Marion on that list.
(09-21-2020, 04:26 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Are you putting Shawn Marion in the "likes Carlisle" column? Wow, that's surprising if so. In his first season here, Marion had a beef with Carlisle over being "yanked in and out of the lineup."
Shawn got upset once upon a time, and spoke up. But what happened after that? What would Shawn say now? A player getting upset with a coach once upon a time doesn't qualify the guy for a list of players that don't like that coach.
(09-21-2020, 04:26 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Jae Crowder seems to be one of the leading anti-Rick players, which is unfortunate, because it would be nice to have him back in Mav Green. Crowder has some piss and vinegar to him, but I wouldn't call him a knucklehead.
Yeah, Jae's no knucklehead. You got me on that one. But even on that one, I understand the circumstances behind Jae landing on the bench. Parsons was signed, Jae's place outside the starting lineup was cemented. And we all know how unfortunate that all is. But no one knew that Parsons was going to like modeling shoes more than basketball or suffer career altering injuries.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - dirkfansince1998 - 09-21-2020
(09-21-2020, 03:22 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Far be it from me to contradict anyone's Rondo hate, but there have been whiffs that there are other players around the league who speak very badly of playing for Carlisle to their peers.
It´s the same for Pop. I think both are coaches with a shorter leash. They have basic expectations when it comes to on and off court behaviour. A certain kind of player simply does not live up to those expectations. Be it Stephen Jackson in SA or Rondo in Dallas.
Opposite is Doc Rivers who is beloved by the players but really not a good coach when it comes to schemes and ingame adjustments. He basically does not care and gives the players all the freedom they want. From strip club visits on the road to Kawhi choosing when he wants to play.
Doc always has multiple guys on the roster that are known for their questionable on and off court behaviour. Dirty players like Powe, Perkins and Posey in Boston. CP3 and Matt Barnes with the Clippers. And know Beverley, Harrell, Morris, George and Kawhi.
Personally I prefer it when I don´t fell ashamed for half of the players on the roster of my favorit team. I am happy that RC would never allow a Harrell or Beverley like bench behaviour. Also happy that he would not allow or even encourage his players to injure the best opposing player.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - KillerLeft - 09-21-2020
Again, I'm not really wanting to get drawn into a whole "let's count positive vs. negative quotes" contest, because ultimately I don't really think very much of what it might tell us, either way.
But, I've done enough "team-running" (not basketball, or even sports, but results oriented, competitive things with similar group dynamics) to know that often it's the individuals who have friction, overcome that friction, and prosper as a result who end up forming the highest level of mutual respect.
So, while I remember the "rag-doll" comments from Marion, I would absolutely consider him to be a Carlisle supporter, judging solely on how often we see him near the bench at games, etc.
Same for Kidd. They had friction, they worked it out, and now there's an insane mutual respect there.
Sometimes, the friction is just an indication of high standards, which my PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL coach had damn well better have.
And sometimes, when a player and coach BOTH want to be successful ridiculously badly, there can be friction on a Tuesday, followed by a microphone being shoved in the player's face on Tuesday night, followed by a good night's sleep, a film study and two great games, where everything planned works perfectly. Then, we live in a world where neither the coach nor the player ever thinks about that Tuesday again, but dozens of fans on message boards are still writing about it 10 years later.
All general, but all concepts I've experienced in my own life. Just saying.
I'll just add this: with Cuban being the ultimate jock-sniffer we ALL have observed him to be, do we seriously think he's not up on what the majority of players who've come through here think about the coach? I'd literally bet MY LIFE that he is, and that if it was a problem in reality, not just a fun thing for lazy reporters to run with when they're hungover and don't want to do their jobs, Carlisle wouldn't be here anymore.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - Mavs2019 - 09-21-2020
Quote:KillerLeft@"Mavs2019" It's very true, by my definition. Since being traded away from Boston in 2014, the dude has had one stint that was slightly above average: his Sacramento year, right after Dallas (when he had reason to rehab his image a bit, incidentally).Yeah, and it is still not true.
Chciago reached the play-offs in 2016/2017, won the first two games of the Boston series in an upset with Rondo putting up 11.5/10.0/8.5 with 3.5 stls. Without him they lost the next four.
Next year AD and Cousins had the most successful years of their careers (up until this year) with Rondo running the show. Another rock-solid play-off performance with 10.3/12.2/7.6 with 1.5 stls, swept the Blazers, lost to Warriors.
There is a reason, they call him Play-off Rondo.
The Mavs simply were a poor fit with Carlisle personally and the team not build to play to his strengths. You can blame Rondo for that or just accept that it was just one of many failed attempts to build a competitive post championship roster: The Lost Decade.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - KillerLeft - 09-21-2020
Hey man, I like your stuff. A lot, actually. But on this one, it's no use even getting into it. I simply don't see the player the way you do and disagree.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - Mapka - 09-22-2020
(09-21-2020, 04:26 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:(09-21-2020, 04:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote:(09-21-2020, 04:16 PM)fifteenth Wrote: It doesn't hurt my feelings that a few knuckleheads hate Rick. Or, at least, it doesn't bother me that a few folks who couldn't do what Rick asked of them blame Rick for it.
I'll take coaching chops over likeability.
I mean, Dirk likes him. Luka seems to like him.
Argue with them.
Jalon Rose, Stephen Jackson, Shawn Marion, etc, etc, etc.
Are you putting Shawn Marion in the "likes Carlisle" column? Wow, that's surprising if so. In his first season here, Marion had a beef with Carlisle over being "yanked in and out of the lineup." On the other hand, I'm sure a championship ring lifted his spirits.
Jae Crowder seems to be one of the leading anti-Rick players, which is unfortunate, because it would be nice to have him back in Mav Green. Crowder has some piss and vinegar to him, but I wouldn't call him a knucklehead.
Can you imagine the Coaching Jae got?
Starting with Rick, than Brad Stevens, short stints with Cavs-Utah-Memphis and now Spo.
He is on his second contract, is he?
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - chaparral - 09-22-2020
Billy Donovan is the new coach of the Bulls. Dose this help the Mavs with getting any of the players talked about already?
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29947235/billy-donovan-reaches-agreement-next-bulls-coach
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | LAL up 2-0 | MIA up 2-1 - Kammrath - 09-22-2020
(09-22-2020, 05:44 PM)chaparral Wrote: Dose this help the Mavs with getting any of the players talked about already?
I would think not. Donovan is the real deal and could make that team way more competitive right away.
I still hope OPJ or Tomas can be snagged.