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RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - omahen - 09-16-2020
(09-15-2020, 10:31 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: Should I add Kawhi to the 2021 FA targets.
Playoff P turned out to be one heck of an investment
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - donzingis38 - 09-16-2020
I wanted Marcus Morris for Dallas all year.....not anymore!
But major props to Denver!
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - omahen - 09-16-2020
(09-15-2020, 11:10 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Like where the hell do you go from here with zero picks the next decade.
Their team is still good. They have plenty of options to improve the roster with their bunch of good contracts and interesting young players like Zubac and Shamet. They are far from Houston situation, plenty of reserves left.
Most important thing they need to do is to be honest internally and admit what went wrong. Why there was no chemistry. Why there was no wish to win, no killer instinct, no fight. Paul George has to take responsibility for bad performances not make a bunch of excuses.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - SleepingHero - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 02:09 AM)omahen Wrote:(09-15-2020, 11:10 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Like where the hell do you go from here with zero picks the next decade.
Their team is still good. They have plenty of options to improve the roster with their bunch of good contracts and interesting young players like Zubac and Shamet. They are far from Houston situation, plenty of reserves left.
Most important thing they need to do is to be honest internally and admit what went wrong. Why there was no chemistry. Why there was no wish to win, no killer instinct, no fight. Paul George has to take responsibility for bad performances not make a bunch of excuses.
I think the Clips situation is a bit more precarious than that. They have almost zero draft capital to sweeten any trades. For them to actually improve and get quality players is going to be tough, considering they'd have to slowly chip away at their already balanced team. Like you said, no team is just going to gift good role players, and the Clips weren't even in need of good role players. They're team this year was on paper, top 2 in the league and the favorites to win it all. Basically had 2 6MOY guys on their bench, with a great mix of forwards and bigs. How do you improve that? They fell apart because of their lack of chemistry, poor coaching, and Pandemic P.
The reason why I think the Clips are in a dire situation is precisely because of how all-in they went. Both Kawhi and PG are going to be free agents next year. They're at a crossroads. Do they try one last time, to compete with this same roster? If they turn out another disappointing season, it dooms that franchise for at least half a decade. Or they can flip all their assets now near their highest value to try and recoup whatever assets they shipped out and try again growing a team?
Basically as boom or bust as it gets. I guess thats the by-product by making the deals they made. There isn't a chance in hell they blow it up. But I don't see what they could do roster wise to even improve. Is a coaching change all they need? Who knows. The West next year is going to be stronger than ever, and the all-in Clips are going to be facing a rejuvenated Warriors, Lakers, Denver, older Mavs, Jazz, and whatever Houston and OKC does. Add in Wolves with Towns+Russell+1st pick, never count our the Spurs, Bubble Suns, Dame Time, and a new look Pels and we have a 13 deep Western conference. Tough year to be do or die.
EDIT: Forgot Memphis. Make that 14 deep.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - omahen - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 03:26 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: The reason why I think the Clips are in a dire situation is precisely because of how all-in they went. Both Kawhi and PG are going to be free agents next year. They're at a crossroads. Do they try one last time, to compete with this same roster? If they turn out another disappointing season, it dooms that franchise for at least half a decade. Or they can flip all their assets now near their highest value to try and recoup whatever assets they shipped out and try again growing a team?
Of course they will try it again, nothing else is an option. They win in next two years or the franchise will be doomed for a decade, as you said. I think it is a natural cycle of every NBA team. Winning a title is very difficult and not every plan works. You don't just quick after one failure. Mavs will not quit KP after one injury.
If we look beyond internal lack of chemistry/bad coaching problems, their biggest need might be a capable point guard. Bev just plays defense, Williams is more scorer than PG and Jackson is a disaster. Other than that they are fine. Zubac is a good centre and he wasn't a problem.
The other problem I think they have is, that Kawhi is not really a leader. He is a robot who scores 30 points a night unless he is playing Nuggets, but doesn't really lift the team with his lack of charisma. He had true leaders like Parker in Spurs and Lowry in Toronto. I think Clippers are expecting too much from him in this area. George is just looking for excuses. He is the one who should step up as leader.
Still, if I look for a bit of excuses for them myself, it has to be noted that they were not really prepared physically. Especially Williams and Harrell were just shadows of their regular season selfs.
(09-16-2020, 03:26 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: They have almost zero draft capital to sweeten any trades.
They have good young players like Zubac and Shamet. Kabengele and Mann as development projects. They can survive losing all of them. And they have a very rich and passionate owner. If he is willing to spend they can bring back whole team and someone for MLE. Experienced playmaker like Dragic perhaps?
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - DanSchwartzgan - 09-16-2020
(09-15-2020, 06:10 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: https://dailyknicks.com/2020/09/15/knicks-rumors-chris-paul-readying-offers/
Knicks interested in CP3
My post in the off-season thread makes some of the same points. Paul's agent just took over the Knicks (BTW, Brunson, DFS and MKG all work with that same agency). Paul bring credibility to the franchise and might even help them recruit in 2021. NY has a tremendous amount of flexibility and doesn't have to send out as much undesirable salary as Milwaukee and Philly. This makes sense for NY. No one is going there until they turn their reputation around.
For OKC, Randall isn't an ideal pairing with Adams, but he is only guaranteed $4mm in 21. He will soak up the minutes Gallinari played (OKC should sign Gallinari short term or S&T him and get something in return). Knox has really been a disappointment, but is still young. Since Paul is being added to a roster that already has Payton, Frank N. and Smith, I would expect one of them to move also. NY needs some help at SF and PF if Knox and Randall are in the package (presumably where they will draft at #8). I guess they can bring back Harkless on a one year. Frank N for Justin Jackson makes even more sense if Randall and Knox are the outgoing in such a deal. It will be interesting to see what level pick compensation and which direction it goes if there is any.
The thing I like about Frank coming here is I see some upside there...much more than Brunson (and I like Brunson in his role). If I'm wrong, what did it cost? Get him up to league average for guards on 3's and he can start next to Luka. He's a very disruptive defender. The minutes are there as my presumption is Wright would be dealt (my deal for Thaddeus Young would still be in play). Neither is a big name or third star, but both are good perimeter defenders and shoot well from the corner. I think we would be a better team defensively without giving up any O. Plus, that combination of moves would actually reduce salary for 2021 if you don't make the QO to Frank N. Plan Have It Both Ways.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - Thukydides - 09-16-2020
Two things:
1. Nuggets can thank the Mavs. Clippers were just gassed, if you ask me. If Kawhi and Lou Williams would have played like that against us, we would have faced the Nuggets for sure. Don´t have another explanation, but the series against Dallas diminished Kawhi´s strength. Millsap and Grant are exactly the kind of players we need though. They were stellar.
2. I know our history with the Heat with DWade, the mocking of Dirk... but you gotta love this Heat team. How can you not? They are special and my title favorite right now. Paul George and Jimmy Butler are just complete opposites. How he went through Tatum on that last play. Unreal
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - KillerLeft - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 06:57 AM)Thukydides Wrote: 2. I know our history with the Heat with DWade, the mocking of Dirk... but you gotta love this Heat team. How can you not? They are special and my title favorite right now. Paul George and Jimmy Butler are just complete opposites. How he went through Tatum on that last play. Unreal
Yeah man, the HEAT are the most fun team left. Wade is gone, so I've decided it's ok for me to like them a little. I struggled with the decision though.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - Hypermav - 09-16-2020
I am happy I don't have to pull for the Lakers next round.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - SleepingHero - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 06:57 AM)Thukydides Wrote: I know our history with the Heat with DWade, the mocking of Dirk... but you gotta love this Heat team. How can you not? They are special and my title favorite right now. Paul George and Jimmy Butler are just complete opposites. How he went through Tatum on that last play. Unreal
Nuggets all the way. Let them win it all and have their spotlight. If they beat LeChina I'll be shaking from excitement.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - MrGoat - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 06:57 AM)Thukydides Wrote: Two things:
1. Nuggets can thank the Mavs. Clippers were just gassed, if you ask me. If Kawhi and Lou Williams would have played like that against us, we would have faced the Nuggets for sure. Don´t have another explanation, but the series against Dallas diminished Kawhi´s strength. Millsap and Grant are exactly the kind of players we need though. They were stellar.
2. I know our history with the Heat with DWade, the mocking of Dirk... but you gotta love this Heat team. How can you not? They are special and my title favorite right now. Paul George and Jimmy Butler are just complete opposites. How he went through Tatum on that last play. Unreal
I'm not going to bail the Clippers out with the gassed excuse (and Doc even had the nerve to try to use that excuse after the game). They were playing against a team led by a chunky boy that had to come back from a 3-1 deficit the previous round.
The only remnant of the Heat left that I still hate is Pat Riley. Got to feel good for Jae Crowder though and I've been a fan of Jimmy Buckets for a long time
It was classy of the Clippers though to have George Paul and Kawhi combine for 24 points in a tribute to Kobe though
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - StepBackJay - 09-16-2020
Heat are in the cat-birds seat bc they can keep essentially the same roster and add Giannis to it in 2021 if they can talk him into going there. I wonder if it affects Giannis though who probably isn't like Durant wanting to join a roster that's already won a championship without him.
From a Mavs angle I think we want a) the Heat to win for the reason above and b) the Bucks to blow their chances next year fixing the roster so that Dallas stands out. I do think being in the West is a problem but otherwise he could join a team that's very good that he could elevate to contender.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - ItsGoTime - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 08:24 AM)KillerLeft Wrote:It is hard not to like them, but knowing that them doing good makes DWade in any way happy, makes me resist it and root against them. I do like Boston’s team so I’m fine with rooting against Mia in that way.(09-16-2020, 06:57 AM)Thukydides Wrote: 2. I know our history with the Heat with DWade, the mocking of Dirk... but you gotta love this Heat team. How can you not? They are special and my title favorite right now. Paul George and Jimmy Butler are just complete opposites. How he went through Tatum on that last play. Unreal
Yeah man, the HEAT are the most fun team left. Wade is gone, so I've decided it's ok for me to like them a little. I struggled with the decision though.
(09-16-2020, 10:27 AM)MrGoat Wrote: It was classy of the Clippers though to have George Paul and Kawhi combine for 24 points in a tribute to Kobe thoughGreat line!
(09-16-2020, 10:49 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: b) the Bucks to blow their chances next year fixing the roster so that Dallas stands out.What if they AND we blow our chances next year fixing our rosters?
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - Dahlsim - 09-16-2020
NBA coaching strategies evolving had a lot to do with the 3 point revolution and the move small ball wing/guard dominated play. I have no problem with that, coaches figured out that more 3's made more sense but it took them a while to come around to the strategies even though the 3 point shot had been available for a long time before the revolution.
Now most coaches have forgotten about when and how to use the inside/out game and where the talented offensive big man fits vs. the role playing defensive big.
The Nuggets fortunately for them figured it out in time to bash the Clippers with combination new school wing/guard talent playing off an old school size advantage front line.
Denver won't have quite the same advantage against the Lakers though because they built their roster to play small and BIG, as flexible as they might need to be.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - StepBackJay - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 11:31 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:
(09-16-2020, 10:49 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: b) the Bucks to blow their chances next year fixing the roster so that Dallas stands out.What if they AND we blow our chances next year fixing our rosters?
Then Mavs strike out again and talk us into a max offer for Josh Richardson I guess.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - Reunion Mav Old - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 08:24 AM)KillerLeft Wrote:I do respect their team. I do not and will never like them nor do I admire them. I may root for them over the Laker because they are even higher on my never root for list. In fact can’t they both lose!(09-16-2020, 06:57 AM)Thukydides Wrote: 2. I know our history with the Heat with DWade, the mocking of Dirk... but you gotta love this Heat team. How can you not? They are special and my title favorite right now. Paul George and Jimmy Butler are just complete opposites. How he went through Tatum on that last play. Unreal
Yeah man, the HEAT are the most fun team left. Wade is gone, so I've decided it's ok for me to like them a little. I struggled with the decision though.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - omahen - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 11:37 AM)Dahlsim Wrote: playing off an old school size advantage front line.
You are not realistic. Jokic is miles away from "old school". He is best passing big ever. He is hitting threes at 40 % clip. And yes, he can also post up. Although he often goes to his trademark high arching mid range fade away shot, which is just incredibly difficult.
Besides, Rockets are the only one really going small. Clippers have traditional big and they are starting him. Harrell can also be called traditional, even though he is not so tall. Lakers usually start with traditional big. Utah has Gobert. OKC has Adams. Portland has Nurkic. Mavs playing KP at five are actually "innovators" moving away from traditional bigs forcing others to adjust - exactly what you want from them. Which big of the above can run around KP on the three point line? None. They were hiding them on DFS or Maxi on defense, so they could stay near the rim. If we would have just a bit better players in these positions, we would be killing the mismatches.
There are reasons for low minutes on Bobi. 5 seasons in the league and he never played more than 15 mpg. He can do damage on offense and he gets exploited on defense. He can be a surprise here and there. We have seen him be that. We have also seen games where he was totally ineffective offensively and exploited defensively. You can't claim Mavs result would be totally different if we played him more. But I agree, it felt they could try it a bit more.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - KillerLeft - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 11:37 AM)Dahlsim Wrote: NBA coaching strategies evolving had a lot to do with the 3 point revolution and the move small ball wing/guard dominated play. I have no problem with that, coaches figured out that more 3's made more sense but it took them a while to come around to the strategies even though the 3 point shot had been available for a long time before the revolution.
Now most coaches have forgotten about when and how to use the inside/out game and where the talented offensive big man fits vs. the role playing defensive big.
The Nuggets fortunately for them figured it out in time to bash the Clippers with combination new school wing/guard talent playing off an old school size advantage front line.
Denver won't have quite the same advantage against the Lakers though because they built their roster to play small and BIG, as flexible as they might need to be.
https://youtu.be/KyD8VIK032o
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - Dahlsim - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 12:19 PM)omahen Wrote:(09-16-2020, 11:37 AM)Dahlsim Wrote: playing off an old school size advantage front line.
You are not realistic. Jokic is miles away from "old school". He is best passing big ever. He is hitting threes at 40 % clip. And yes, he can also post up. Although he often goes to his trademark high arching mid range fade away shot, which is just incredibly difficult.
Besides, Rockets are the only one really going small. Clippers have traditional big and they are starting him. Harrell can also be called traditional, even though he is not so tall. Lakers usually start with traditional big. Utah has Gobert. OKC has Adams. Portland has Nurkic. Mavs playing KP at five are actually "innovators" moving away from traditional bigs forcing others to adjust - exactly what you want from them. Which big of the above can run around KP on the three point line? None. They were hiding them on DFS or Maxi on defense, so they could stay near the rim. If we would have just a bit better players in these positions, we would be killing the mismatches.
There are reasons for low minutes on Bobi. 5 seasons in the league and he never played more than 15 mpg. He can do damage on offense and he gets exploited on defense. He can be a surprise here and there. We have seen him be that. We have also seen games where he was totally ineffective offensively and exploited defensively. You can't claim Mavs result would be totally different if we played him more. But I agree, it felt they could try it a bit more.
Quote:Jokic is miles away from "old school".
That's actually more an issue with your interpretation of "old school" then what I actually said or meant. Remember a guy name Wilt Chamberlain? Well maybe you don't but that guy was "old school" post domination to the max but one year they challenged him to pass more and he just went out and led the league in assists, as a center.
There's a huge difference between what a player can do and what the game plan allows the player to actually do. You never know for instance that many players are good until the team uses them that way.
Look, I understand your logic but just because a bunch of coaches do something a certain way doesn't man that's the only thing that makes sense. That was really my point. Coaches had the 3 point line for a very long time before they started changing their habits and suddenly somebody applied analytics and said "Hey, what if we shot a lot of these?".
The entire mindset of NBA coaches was different.
Quote: We have also seen games where he was totally ineffective offensively and exploited defensively.
Actually, we haven't seen a lot of that, we have seen short spans of minutes like that but not "games like that" because he doesn't play games. Historically when he's played longer minutes he has not gotten torched like that over time.
I've seen almost every NBA star get torched and play poorly over longer spans than you can ever say you saw Boban perform poorly. Heck Paul George, Westbrook, Harden, they all just got bounced with some poor performances sprinkled in. So what?
I'm suggesting to you that its not just Boban's minutes but the way he is used when is on the floor.
He has to be allowed to impact the offense more in his minutes.
Not many of coaches now know how to use a dominant inside big man within today's context. Shaq made this very point talking about Boban in this very series when they interviewed Boban after he torched he Clippers.
How would Shaq be used today? How would Wilt be used or Olajuwon? Would they get Bobaned to the Bench?
Quote:You can't claim Mavs result would be totally different if we played him more.
I don't have to claim it. You can claim what would happen, the few times, very few he gets a lot more minutes he showed it. So you speculate and I'll pull clips.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Clippers choke (hahaha!) - omahen - 09-16-2020
(09-16-2020, 02:58 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: I don't have to claim it. You can claim what would happen, the few times, very few he gets a lot more minutes he showed it. So you speculate and I'll pull clips.
Yeah, because there were no games where he was bad. Because he wasn't in the league for 5 years on a bunch of different teams and never played more than 15 mpg. I guess all NBA coaches and their vast staffs are a bunch of idiots who can't utilize their players. I have one for you, let's sign him! He must be good, this wasn't so long ago!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk1ctQMx5F0