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RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - SleepingHero - 09-15-2020
(09-14-2020, 10:13 PM)Hypermav Wrote: I found a 9/14/19 post. Happy One Year Anniversary fellow Mavs fans.
HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/KYElw07kzDspaBOwf9/giphy.gif)
HERE'S TO MANY MANY MORE LUKA AND KRISTAPS HIGHLIGHTS
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/UV5eAexkrjw1heFAj1/giphy.gif)
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/YlNFeoDfLkK9SWt1fc/giphy.gif)
AND TO A MAGICK FUTURE!
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/LqlmnNNURhAY0opaPM/giphy.gif)
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/H2toBQSgnO6YOp3XNi/giphy.gif)
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - StepBackJay - 09-15-2020
(09-14-2020, 07:53 PM)omahen Wrote:(09-14-2020, 07:11 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: So Omahen what about when the Thunder traded Carmelo Anthony to the Hawks for Schroeder?
From OKC, it was a cost cutting move as it saved them huge tax bill. I told you this is one of the exceptions.
Atlanta received a FRP for their troubles.
Cleveland continously refuses to just give away Love, proving exactly my point.
Well look some will, some won't. Last year the Suns gave the Pacers TJ Warren and the #32 pick just to clear his salary off the books. Warren hadn't exploded yet but was a great 3 point specialist even then. So one team doesn't prove or disprove every other team's willingness to part with talent.
You are saying I am basically unrealistic to think we could net a talented player like Bledsoe or someone else without giving something up. I am saying there are teams that want to shed money. If you have the ability to absorb money that they want to shed then sometimes you can get a good player without an asset like a pick. It has happened before and will happen again.
You are giving the other team "something" when you give them cap space now or in the future. That has value. So when you talk about any overpaid or underperforming player, there is for sure a possibility that some team could "buy low" and get the player without giving up picks or significant talent in return. It happens.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - KillerLeft - 09-15-2020
I might have missed this, but do we know yet how the pandemic is affecting revenue or the cap?
I mean, there actually might be some teams who NEED to reduce salary, depending on how that shakes out.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - SleepingHero - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 11:09 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I might have missed this, but do we know yet how the pandemic is affecting revenue or the cap?
I mean, there actually might be some teams who NEED to reduce salary, depending on how that shakes out.
Nothing concrete yet. But it's assumed that the future cap estimations has to be reduced from major loss of revenue from COVID and even the China debacle.
The one plan I have heard bounced around the Bill Simmons Podcast is that they'll smooth out the cap the next 3 years, keeping it at 109 instead of drastically reducing it and then plan to pay off the losses with revenue from future seasons when fans can hopefully be present.
Which doesn't sound too bad to me.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - KillerLeft - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 11:14 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Nothing concrete yet. But it's assumed that the future cap estimations has to be reduced from major loss of revenue from COVID and even the China debacle.
The one plan I have heard bounced around the Bill Simmons Podcast is that they'll smooth out the cap the next 3 years, keeping it at 109 instead of drastically reducing it and then plan to pay off the losses with revenue from future seasons when fans can hopefully be present.
Which doesn't sound too bad to me.
Yeah, I think I heard that same podcast. They talked about wanting to avoid the sudden cap spike that resulted in GS signing KD. Sounds good, and I hope that's successful.
The cap is one thing, but I think for some owners the possibility of going full Tom Hicks and literally being unable to pay the bills might loom larger than we imagine. I obviously don't know that, but I wonder.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - StepBackJay - 09-15-2020
@"KillerLeft" there's always teams who need to dump money and this offseason there are more bad contracts than there were last year. The question is whether or not the Mavs will take on money absent a superstar. My guess is 99% they won't until the Giannis situation is resolved and I bet he gives the Bucks a year which means this thing is going to be a story for an entire year.
I expect Mavs will instead do what they always do in these situations which is clear space for 2021 and focus on short-term deals.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - KillerLeft - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 11:24 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: @"KillerLeft" there's always teams who need to dump money and this offseason there are more bad contracts than there were last year. The question is whether or not the Mavs will take on money absent a superstar. My guess is 99% they won't until the Giannis situation is resolved and I bet he gives the Bucks a year which means this thing is going to be a story for an entire year.
I expect Mavs will instead do what they always do in these situations which is clear space for 2021 and focus on short-term deals.
I don't know about the 2021 thing. Maybe, maybe not. But I'll agree that they'll avoid taking on "bad money" and I'll go one step further:
Don't flame me, but are we still sure about the conventional wisdom that "Cuban is willing to spend whatever it takes to win"???
I mean, they haven't paid tax (or even operated as an over the cap team, really) in a LOOOOOOONG time. Now, I fully understand that adding salary to this mess they've given us since the title would've been ludicrous, so I don't blame them for that, but we're slowly but surely getting back to a situation where (we assume) Cuban will need to shell out some tax money to keep the team arrow pointing upward. Part of me thinks he'll do it, but are we sure? I don't think I'm sure.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - StepBackJay - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 11:29 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Don't flame me, but are we still sure about the conventional wisdom that "Cuban is willing to spend whatever it takes to win"???
I think Cubes absolutely is willing to if he thinks it improves the team and makes good use of their assets. I really think they believe that their current strategy gives them the best opportunity to improve the team. If/when they have their stars set, I do think they would spend luxury tax if it made the team better and didn't hamper them from making moves in the future.
He says that a lot to signal to FA's that our Front office is better than these teams that avoid the Luxury Tax like the plague. It's sort of a cheap promise bc he doesn't really have to follow through thanks to his track record from old CBA's. He has a reputation as a spender which I do think is helpful to would-be free agents coming from say a small market that won't spend money.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - KillerLeft - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 11:43 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: I think Cubes absolutely is willing to if he thinks it improves the team and makes good use of their assets. I really think they believe that their current strategy gives them the best opportunity to improve the team. If/when they have their stars set, I do think they would spend luxury tax if it made the team better and didn't hamper them from making moves in the future.
He says that a lot to signal to FA's that our Front office is better than these teams that avoid the Luxury Tax like the plague. It's sort of a cheap promise bc he doesn't really have to follow through thanks to his track record from old CBA's. He has a reputation as a spender which I do think is helpful to would-be free agents coming from say a small market that won't spend money.
I hope you're right!
And I agree, he has that reputation with FANS, and with some in the media. I legitimately wonder if that's his rep with players and agents.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - omahen - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 11:05 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Well look some will, some won't. Last year the Suns gave the Pacers TJ Warren and the #32 pick just to clear his salary off the books.
Are you reading what I wrote? I clearly said, there are two exemptions where teams give away players. Clear cap or avoid salary. The example you keep pushing with Bledsoe example is that someone will give away player just because he is not on a good contract. Milwaukee will never trade Bledsoe for a Wright and Jackson type of contracts. NEVER! They want to improve, not get worse. They have picks and young players to add to receive a much better player to replace Bledsoe. If Bledsoe is traded (for example) to OKC, they again have absolutely no need to trade him for Wright and Jackson. Memphis was ok with Iguodala not playing at all for them and they still didn't just let him go for a bunch of nothing. It will not happen, forget it. Either you are cool paying a pick for Bledsoe or you think he is not worth it and you will not get it. I mean, if we would be speaking about someone totally unplayable vet min guy at best like Waiters contract in Miami, than Wright and Jackson is a fair offer. But we can agree Bledsoe is on a totally different level, despite his offensive shortcomings.
(09-15-2020, 11:05 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: If you have the ability to absorb money that they want to shed
We don't have this ability. You are not offering to take player in the cap space, you are offering Wright and Jackson bad contracts in return, saving the trading partner a couple of millions.
(09-15-2020, 11:29 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Don't flame me, but are we still sure about the conventional wisdom that "Cuban is willing to spend whatever it takes to win"???
While we most likely won't be in tax next season, Cuban could give a nice signal he is willing to spend, if he uses the five million cash for something. Either to buy a pick or facilitate a trade.
Last offseason was sort of "let's see where we are with these guys season". I think now they have to do a step or two to improve. If they do it while keeping flexibility, I am fine. If they just stand pat and avoid deals that add to cap because they want to keep flexibility, I will be mad.
As Dan already said. If the cap stays at 109 next season, we have just 25 million of cap space, some 10 million short of max contract. That is after THJ, Jackson, WCS and Bobi are gone, we don't sign any long term guy for MLE and we don't sign any rookies in 2020 and 2021. Basically we need to dump another two guys to have max space. Is it really wort it for Giannis pipedream? I would ignore it and clear cap when he would say he wants to come in 2021
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - StepBackJay - 09-15-2020
@"omahen" you are being borderline ridiculous. I agree that the Bucks will not take a talent hit to shed Bledsoe but if he gets moved to OKC they might have reasons to move him elsewhere as they are rebuilding. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. They are pretty smart with asset management. CP3 was untradaeble last year and this year he is going to fetch likely an asset from somebody.
The hypothetical trade for Bledsoe is Wright + Jackson. Bledsoe has 18 mil guaranteed in 2021 and another 4 or so guaranteed in 2022. Wright only has 8.5 left in 2021. So if OKC wanted to shed some salary it's an option. I don't think that's crazy at all. It doesn't matter if Wright and Jackson aren't as talented. In fact, if OKC wants to tank next year (maybe they will or won't) then they would actually want to get worse not better in the short term.
You are acting like there's no way that could ever happen. It's not like I am saying we are trading for LeBron. Bledsoe's stock is down and the book on him is that he doesn't play well in the playoffs. He's also 30 years old. So if you are a good team wanting to take on his salary you presumably are trying to make the playoffs or do well in the playoffs. So ya maybe he could fetch something or maybe he can't.
My whole point was just IF the Mavs could get a talented, albeit flawed player like Bledsoe for only filler, would ppl here do it? There are plenty that wouldn't even take a "free" Bledsoe but it's an interesting hypothetical to me that isn't far-fetched. We will see what happens bc he is likely to get moved this offseason.
To clarify, maybe the confusion is around Bucks and OKC. I never meant to say the Bucks would dump Bledsoe for our garbage. My whole point is that the Bucks are heavy favorites for CP3 and if they did get him OKC may not have use for Bledsoe. If I confused the issue sorry about that but this is really a OKC/DAL hypothetical built around the idea that Bledsoe for CP3 is a real possibility.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - omahen - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 11:09 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I mean, there actually might be some teams who NEED to reduce salary, depending on how that shakes out.
I also haven't seen anything concrete that teams might be in real trouble. So I am assuming teams will try to avoid tax or not go into tax to heavily. If we look at teams that are projected to be in tax under 109 cap estimate, this is the list:
- GSW (+16 mil in tax)
- Philly (+15)
- Brooklyn (+9)
- Boston (+9)
Not really teams one would expect to aggresively trade out of tax teritory. I can see GSW not excercising their trade exemption to bring another 17 milllion player, I can see Philly traying to not add to tax, Brooklyn perhaps not resigning Harris and Boston not bringing in someone for MLE. But I don't see any of them just giving away players to avoid tax.
Next group of teams are close to the tax line:
- Houston
- Indiana
- Orlando
- Milwaukee
Milwaukee would be really stupid to be cheap this season. They have to show Giannis they want to win or he will be gone. They have decent contracts that give them flexibility: Bledsoe, RLopez, Wilson, Ilyasova, even Hill.
Houston can most easily avoid tax by trading Westbrook for less salary. If there are still teams that think he is a star. Or if they find a taker for Gordon horrible salary and get something back. Trading Harden, Tucker or Covington is basically same as surrendering.
Indiana would perhaps have to let someone like Justin Holiday go and not excercise MLE, but they don't have other problems to keep their core if they wish. Same with Orlando.
(09-15-2020, 12:47 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: If I confused the issue sorry about that but this is really a OKC/DAL hypothetica
I understand and I stand by my arguments. There is absolutely no possible scenario where OKC would trade Bledsoe for just Wright and Jackson, no picks attached. He is second team all defense! I am sure someone like Atlanta would gladly take him without giving crap contracts in return. Very possibly someone would offer a pick to get him for a crappy contract. Houston for example. If there is no market for him, you keep him and try to increase his value. Exactly what they did with CP3. Why didn't they dump his horrible contract for a couple of a little less bad contracts?
(09-15-2020, 12:47 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: My whole point was just IF the Mavs could get a talented, albeit flawed player like Bledsoe for only filler, would ppl here do it?
I don't see a lot of point in this discussion, but if you insist. I think Bledsoe is very intriguing with his defensive capabilities, but too risky on offensive side. I would not take this risk even if it would only take Wright and Jackson. I think there are less risky moves out there. If there would be no deal for us and if OKC would really insist saying pretty please, than I would probably do it.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - StepBackJay - 09-15-2020
Any chance Houston could get dump Gordon and Westbrook for space? They could either try to reset this year if they could get a team to take those players for space or reset in 2021 by trading for expiring deals.
(09-15-2020, 01:06 PM)omahen Wrote:(09-15-2020, 12:47 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: My whole point was just IF the Mavs could get a talented, albeit flawed player like Bledsoe for only filler, would ppl here do it?
I don't see a lot of point in this discussion, but if you insist. I think Bledsoe is very intriguing with his defensive capabilities, but too risky on offensive side. I would not take this risk even if it would only take Wright and Jackson. I think there are less risky moves out there. If there would be no deal for us and if OKC would really insist saying pretty please, than I would probably do it.
Atlanta has been getting picks in return for taking on players in the past season or so. I get what you're saying but what if Atlanta has a move they like better than that? Again I don't think it's a guarantee that there is a team that would take Bledsoe for 2020 cap space, with or without an asset.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - omahen - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 01:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Any chance Houston could get dump Gordon and Westbrook for space?
No, no chance. From cap space perspective, dumping Gordon for nothing still doesn't create cap space for them in 2020. Dumping Westbrook gives them just 19 mil of cap space. So I don't see incentive here. Even if they would dump both and get like 35 mil of cap space, are there really good enough free agents around. Plus it would certainly take picks to dump Gordon and possibly even Westbrook.
If Houston tries to compete again, they try to convert bad players like Westbrook into something more useful. I am not sure if there is something available, that wouldn't just make them worse. They can ask Atlanta if they give back Capella for Westbrook. They don't have many assets to sweeten the deal for someone. I mean, Detroit would certainly want picks back if Houston tried to trade Gordon for Rose and Kennard.
If Houston goes in rebuild mode, they keep Westbrook and Gordon and trade worthy players like Harden, Covington and Tucker.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - SleepingHero - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 01:06 PM)omahen Wrote:(09-15-2020, 11:09 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I mean, there actually might be some teams who NEED to reduce salary, depending on how that shakes out.
I also haven't seen anything concrete that teams might be in real trouble. So I am assuming teams will try to avoid tax or not go into tax to heavily. If we look at teams that are projected to be in tax under 109 cap estimate, this is the list:
- GSW (+16 mil in tax)
- Philly (+15)
- Brooklyn (+9)
- Boston (+9)
Not really teams one would expect to aggresively trade out of tax teritory. I can see GSW not excercising their trade exemption to bring another 17 milllion player, I can see Philly traying to not add to tax, Brooklyn perhaps not resigning Harris and Boston not bringing in someone for MLE. But I don't see any of them just giving away players to avoid tax.
Next group of teams are close to the tax line:
- Houston
- Indiana
- Orlando
- Milwaukee
Milwaukee would be really stupid to be cheap this season. They have to show Giannis they want to win or he will be gone. They have decent contracts that give them flexibility: Bledsoe, RLopez, Wilson, Ilyasova, even Hill.
Houston can most easily avoid tax by trading Westbrook for less salary. If there are still teams that think he is a star. Or if they find a taker for Gordon horrible salary and get something back. Trading Harden, Tucker or Covington is basically same as surrendering.
Indiana would perhaps have to let someone like Justin Holiday go and not excercise MLE, but they don't have other problems to keep their core if they wish. Same with Orlando.
I have no idea where you got your numbers. The tax line set at the 109,000,000 cap is 132,627,000. If 2020-21 season's cap is 109,000,000 the tax line will be set the same. Numbers retrieved from Spotrac and Capulator.
Warriors are 21,678,329 over the tax line after taking into account the 2nd pick salary. Philly after renouncing all their FA cap holds will be 14,701,441 over the tax line. Brooklyn-26,285,971 (and that's if they only keep Joe Harris' hold and sign their draft pick). Boston-15,711,789.
HOU-114,000 over the tax line. Just barely. But that's if they renounce all their cap holds. If they decline PJ Tucker's option and waive all their non-guaranteed players then they'll be below the line, but obviously lose out on at least 2 key rotation players.
IND-800K below the tax line if they renounce everyone but Holiday and Sampson.
ORL- If they renounce Augustin then they'd be 3m below the line.
MIL- 2,255,061 over the line if they sign their pick, and renounce everyone but Brown and Connaughton (both of which I assume are impact players. they could renounce both and be 1.5 M under the line.) They could just waive Illyasova and be well under it but he was a key rotation piece.
The other teams can find ways to reduce their tax as well. Brooklyn could renounce Harris and let him walk and trade their pick. But doing so would make them worse, and wouldn't that qualify as a good team letting a good player go for practically nothing because of tax reasons? Boston could waive Theis and trade their picks and be only 5m over the line.
Either way, I don't see teams just letting player's go for nothing, even with a high tax bill. That is unless their owner is a cheap one and they're trying to tank. OKC fits this to a T. HOU could get there quick too. What is interesting is that MIL's ownership is also stingy. The only real impact 3rd star that's available to them (and fits) is CP3 and that'd put them WELL above the tax line. If they traded Bledsoe/Donte/Ersan/DJ Wilson/ then they'd be 10M over the tax line and have 3 roster spots to fill.
And is CP3/Wes/Middleton/Giannis/Lopez that much better than what they have now since they're trading their whole bench? 1 CP3 injury and that team falls apart. AND if it does fall apart, then Giannis could bolt and leave MIL dying with Cp3's contract. Just a super risky play.
So TL;DR I kind of agree with you that teams aren't going to gift players to other teams just because their books are high. It'd take a very specific situation, like the one in OKC (but a single CP3 trade fixes their issues), or the one potentially brewing in HOU that could arise a situation where a team gifts rotation players for pennies on the dollar.
Other single events that could qualify as a team letting good players go is I can see SAC letting Hield go because of their choice to make with Bogdan. I can also see the Nets letting Harris go to get them under the line which is a specific case that also qualifies. Other than that, the teams most affected by the tax line (Warriors, PHI) aren't going to give away their players just because.
(09-15-2020, 01:27 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Any chance Houston could get dump Gordon and Westbrook for space?
I don't know what team in the NBA could accept Westbrook's contract without sending much back in return. And even if they can would it even make any sense for them.
The only one that comes to mind is ATL. And that makes zero sense. HOU is going to have to find some dumb team to trade Westbrook and make them think they're getting a star. NYK is the only team that has the track record to make such a move.
Rockets are kind of stuck. They hit their ceiling. Trading CP3 was the worst move they could have made and it came at the request of their lazy superstar Harden. I think if HOU wants to rebuild, its to trade Harden now. He'd command a super haul, and it'd set them up. Given how their owner is cheap, Dantoni is out and Morey seems to be out too I can see this actually happening.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - omahen - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 01:51 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I have no idea where you got your numbers.
Spotrac. I didn't count cap holds or 2020 rookie salaries. Based on this, Warriors have 148,8 mil of total cap, 16 and something mil above tax. And so on for the rest.
(09-15-2020, 01:51 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: like the one in OKC (but a single CP3 trade fixes their issues)
OKC is very simple. They just let Gallo walk and they are far from tax. They actually only have 107 mil of active salaries without the 2020 picks and if they let FA walk. Absolutely no problem to stay out of tax.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - ClutchDirk - 09-15-2020
https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/status/1305942389446631424
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - StepBackJay - 09-15-2020
(09-15-2020, 01:51 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I don't know what team in the NBA could accept Westbrook's contract without sending much back in return. And even if they can would it even make any sense for them.
Detroit? What exactly do they have going for them? My thought is a team like that, that already has an aging star just double or triple down. Maybe give Houston Rose. They might rather have 1 yr of Rose than many years of Westbrook.
Heck give them Gordon too. Get back Rose and Snell. Cobble together a decent 1 yr roster and then do a reset in 2021 with cap space. Rox would have a big TE for other moves + MLE. Detroit would be a playoff team in the East. Just sayin.' I don't think it will happen but it would make sense to me.
Somehow Morey is going to do like a 9 team trade where he shuffles 1 or both of Gordon and Westbrook for comparable players. He always finds a way to pull a rabbit out of a hat.
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - Kammrath - 09-15-2020
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1305990736328962048
RE: Around the NBA 2019-2020 | Mike D'Antoni steps down in HOU - khaled1987 - 09-15-2020
https://dailyknicks.com/2020/09/15/knicks-rumors-chris-paul-readying-offers/
Knicks interested in CP3