(09-12-2020, 10:25 PM)cow Wrote: Imagine if you could deploy DFS, Tucker, Maxi and RoCo on the same team.  Release the hounds.

(09-12-2020, 10:43 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: They aren´t bigs. 

(09-12-2020, 10:47 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote:

(09-12-2020, 10:25 PM)cow Wrote: Imagine if you could deploy DFS, Tucker, Maxi and RoCo on the same team.  Release the hounds.

That´s a dream come true. Maybe they just need less length and defense and more shooting. THJ is a natural fit in Houston. High volume 3-point chucker with questionable shot selection and bad defense. Make it happen Donnie. 

(09-12-2020, 10:18 PM)cow Wrote: Miami also has Herro so they could offer some combination of Herro, Nunn, Robinson, Adebayo and they could also employee your future draft pick/pick swap strategy if they only wanted to give up two of four.  That pu pu platter returns better talent than what the Mavs would offer if KP isn't part of the deal.  I'd certainly turn the Mavs pu pu platter offer down if I'm MIL.  

You also criticize the what's left scenario for Miami but don't do the same for the Mavs.  If KP is in the deal, Giannis would arguably end up on a worse team that what he is leaving or what he could demand to be traded to (Miami).  Plus he'd be in Miami which is a desirable location and with Pat Riley and continues to put title contending product on the court.

Maybe Giannis loves Luka, but if I'm going to take the reputation hit of leaving my team, there are surer bets out there.

(09-12-2020, 11:28 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:

(09-12-2020, 10:18 PM)cow Wrote: Miami also has Herro so they could offer some combination of Herro, Nunn, Robinson, Adebayo and they could also employee your future draft pick/pick swap strategy if they only wanted to give up two of four.  That pu pu platter returns better talent than what the Mavs would offer if KP isn't part of the deal.  I'd certainly turn the Mavs pu pu platter offer down if I'm MIL.  

You also criticize the what's left scenario for Miami but don't do the same for the Mavs.  If KP is in the deal, Giannis would arguably end up on a worse team that what he is leaving or what he could demand to be traded to (Miami).  Plus he'd be in Miami which is a desirable location and with Pat Riley and continues to put title contending product on the court.

Maybe Giannis loves Luka, but if I'm going to take the reputation hit of leaving my team, there are surer bets out there.

I just totally disagree with you. 

If Miami trades Adebayo+Robinson+Nunn+Herro+Plus the same amount of picks(and 10.7M contract to match the money Olynyk works if he opts in)that the Mavs offer, the rest of their roster will be as follows. Jimmy Butler, Giannis, Andre Igoudala, KZ Okapala (2-way), and Chris Silva. They'd have Dragic, Crowder, Udonis Haslem, Solomon Hill, DJJ. and Myers Leonard as cap holds. Miami in terms of draft capital remarkably looks similar to Dallas' own cupboard. First 1st rounder they can trade is 2025. If they kept all their FA, their team would be 
Dragic/----
Butler/DJJ
Giannis/Hill
Crowder/Haslem
Leonard/---- 

With 0 cap space and a 6 mil taxpayer MLE to use. 

In the 2 trade scenario's I proposed, 1 had KP+Brunson+Dodo+8 draft picks for Giannis and any bad contracts MIL wanted to get off. Which is as strong as any other offer that can be proposed by other teams.  The other was based around a deal that OKC took for PG, that had Brunson+Wright+Dodo+THJ+10 draft picks with zero protections for Giannis and whatever bad contracts. In 1 case, Dallas still retains Kleber, Curry, Wright, Boban, Powell, THJ, and Jackson to pair with Luka and Giannis. A team that is as deep if not deeper than Miami's. In the other, Dallas creates a super big 3 that would be better than any other core of any other team. So either way Dallas would still be a better team.

BUT what is the major X-factor, and why no matter what Miami would be worse than Dallas is because Miami doesn't have Luka Wonderboy Doncic. He is better than every single player on the Heat. 31 year old Jimmy Butler does not compare to Luka. No duo in the league would be better than Giannis and Luka. 

Because of Luka, the Mavs have the least amount of risk in throwing in as many draft picks as possible. By 2029 Luka will be 29 turning 30. For the Heat, Butler would be 39 turning 40. So I don't think any team could match the Mavs in terms of draft capital if the Mavs really want to throw all their chips in.

Obviously I'm biased, but because of how freaking good Luka Doncic is (remember he's a 30/10/10 player), it allows the Mavs for once to be actually competitive in these conversations.

(09-12-2020, 11:39 PM)cow Wrote:

(09-12-2020, 11:28 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:

(09-12-2020, 10:18 PM)cow Wrote: Miami also has Herro so they could offer some combination of Herro, Nunn, Robinson, Adebayo and they could also employee your future draft pick/pick swap strategy if they only wanted to give up two of four.  That pu pu platter returns better talent than what the Mavs would offer if KP isn't part of the deal.  I'd certainly turn the Mavs pu pu platter offer down if I'm MIL.  

You also criticize the what's left scenario for Miami but don't do the same for the Mavs.  If KP is in the deal, Giannis would arguably end up on a worse team that what he is leaving or what he could demand to be traded to (Miami).  Plus he'd be in Miami which is a desirable location and with Pat Riley and continues to put title contending product on the court.

Maybe Giannis loves Luka, but if I'm going to take the reputation hit of leaving my team, there are surer bets out there.

I just totally disagree with you. 

If Miami trades Adebayo+Robinson+Nunn+Herro+Plus the same amount of picks(and 10.7M contract to match the money Olynyk works if he opts in)that the Mavs offer, the rest of their roster will be as follows. Jimmy Butler, Giannis, Andre Igoudala, KZ Okapala (2-way), and Chris Silva. They'd have Dragic, Crowder, Udonis Haslem, Solomon Hill, DJJ. and Myers Leonard as cap holds. Miami in terms of draft capital remarkably looks similar to Dallas' own cupboard. First 1st rounder they can trade is 2025. If they kept all their FA, their team would be 
Dragic/----
Butler/DJJ
Giannis/Hill
Crowder/Haslem
Leonard/---- 

With 0 cap space and a 6 mil taxpayer MLE to use. 

In the 2 trade scenario's I proposed, 1 had KP+Brunson+Dodo+8 draft picks for Giannis and any bad contracts MIL wanted to get off. Which is as strong as any other offer that can be proposed by other teams.  The other was based around a deal that OKC took for PG, that had Brunson+Wright+Dodo+THJ+10 draft picks with zero protections for Giannis and whatever bad contracts. In 1 case, Dallas still retains Kleber, Curry, Wright, Boban, Powell, THJ, and Jackson to pair with Luka and Giannis. A team that is as deep if not deeper than Miami's. In the other, Dallas creates a super big 3 that would be better than any other core of any other team. So either way Dallas would still be a better team.

BUT what is the major X-factor, and why no matter what Miami would be worse than Dallas is because Miami doesn't have Luka Wonderboy Doncic. He is better than every single player on the Heat. 31 year old Jimmy Butler does not compare to Luka. No duo in the league would be better than Giannis and Luka. 

Because of Luka, the Mavs have the least amount of risk in throwing in as many draft picks as possible. By 2029 Luka will be 29 turning 30. For the Heat, Butler would be 39 turning 40. So I don't think any team could match the Mavs in terms of draft capital if the Mavs really want to throw all their chips in.

Obviously I'm biased, but because of how freaking good Luka Doncic is (remember he's a 30/10/10 player), it allows the Mavs for once to be actually competitive in these conversations.

I didn't say all four, a said a combination of two-three of the 4 plus the same pick/swap strategy is a stronger offer than your idea of a non-KP Mavs package.  And if you did have to include KP then Giannis would have a stronger team to compete immediately by staying put or demanding his way to Miami.  Giannis has a ton of leverage here because of his ability to sign an extension or not to entice or scare away suitors.  

Obviously I'd love Giannis here and I adore Luka, but don't overvalue him or at least, don't count out the many downsides to Dallas (MBT team building capabilities and while Carlisle is a great coach, I don't think most players like playing for him and the power dynamic in the NBA has completely shifted to players).

(09-13-2020, 09:09 AM)Hypermav Wrote: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1304983513850998788?s=20

(09-13-2020, 09:09 AM)Hypermav Wrote: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1304983513850998788?s=20

"We're a piece away."

(09-13-2020, 01:30 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: D'Antoni is a smart dude, and this a smart move.

(09-13-2020, 04:33 AM)khaled1987 Wrote:

(09-12-2020, 11:39 PM)cow Wrote:

(09-12-2020, 11:28 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:

(09-12-2020, 10:18 PM)cow Wrote: Miami also has Herro so they could offer some combination of Herro, Nunn, Robinson, Adebayo and they could also employee your future draft pick/pick swap strategy if they only wanted to give up two of four.  That pu pu platter returns better talent than what the Mavs would offer if KP isn't part of the deal.  I'd certainly turn the Mavs pu pu platter offer down if I'm MIL.  

You also criticize the what's left scenario for Miami but don't do the same for the Mavs.  If KP is in the deal, Giannis would arguably end up on a worse team that what he is leaving or what he could demand to be traded to (Miami).  Plus he'd be in Miami which is a desirable location and with Pat Riley and continues to put title contending product on the court.

Maybe Giannis loves Luka, but if I'm going to take the reputation hit of leaving my team, there are surer bets out there.

I just totally disagree with you. 

If Miami trades Adebayo+Robinson+Nunn+Herro+Plus the same amount of picks(and 10.7M contract to match the money Olynyk works if he opts in)that the Mavs offer, the rest of their roster will be as follows. Jimmy Butler, Giannis, Andre Igoudala, KZ Okapala (2-way), and Chris Silva. They'd have Dragic, Crowder, Udonis Haslem, Solomon Hill, DJJ. and Myers Leonard as cap holds. Miami in terms of draft capital remarkably looks similar to Dallas' own cupboard. First 1st rounder they can trade is 2025. If they kept all their FA, their team would be 
Dragic/----
Butler/DJJ
Giannis/Hill
Crowder/Haslem
Leonard/---- 

With 0 cap space and a 6 mil taxpayer MLE to use. 

In the 2 trade scenario's I proposed, 1 had KP+Brunson+Dodo+8 draft picks for Giannis and any bad contracts MIL wanted to get off. Which is as strong as any other offer that can be proposed by other teams.  The other was based around a deal that OKC took for PG, that had Brunson+Wright+Dodo+THJ+10 draft picks with zero protections for Giannis and whatever bad contracts. In 1 case, Dallas still retains Kleber, Curry, Wright, Boban, Powell, THJ, and Jackson to pair with Luka and Giannis. A team that is as deep if not deeper than Miami's. In the other, Dallas creates a super big 3 that would be better than any other core of any other team. So either way Dallas would still be a better team.

BUT what is the major X-factor, and why no matter what Miami would be worse than Dallas is because Miami doesn't have Luka Wonderboy Doncic. He is better than every single player on the Heat. 31 year old Jimmy Butler does not compare to Luka. No duo in the league would be better than Giannis and Luka. 

Because of Luka, the Mavs have the least amount of risk in throwing in as many draft picks as possible. By 2029 Luka will be 29 turning 30. For the Heat, Butler would be 39 turning 40. So I don't think any team could match the Mavs in terms of draft capital if the Mavs really want to throw all their chips in.

Obviously I'm biased, but because of how freaking good Luka Doncic is (remember he's a 30/10/10 player), it allows the Mavs for once to be actually competitive in these conversations.

I didn't say all four, a said a combination of two-three of the 4 plus the same pick/swap strategy is a stronger offer than your idea of a non-KP Mavs package.  And if you did have to include KP then Giannis would have a stronger team to compete immediately by staying put or demanding his way to Miami.  Giannis has a ton of leverage here because of his ability to sign an extension or not to entice or scare away suitors.  

Obviously I'd love Giannis here and I adore Luka, but don't overvalue him or at least, don't count out the many downsides to Dallas (MBT team building capabilities and while Carlisle is a great coach, I don't think most players like playing for him and the power dynamic in the NBA has completely shifted to players).

Based on what? Every star that has played under RC had nothing but high praise for him.
Reggie Miller,  Ron Artest, Billups, Dirk. Those are the only players whose opinion matter to a guy like Giannis. Never mind Lebron was pushing for Cavs to get him when they had Blatt.
Giannis is a winner, he is here to make a legacy, and RC is the type of coach who will make him win.

(09-13-2020, 12:18 PM)Tyler Wrote:

(09-13-2020, 09:09 AM)Hypermav Wrote: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1304983513850998788?s=20

"We're a piece away."

Compare and contrast to an equally disappointed Luka talking after game 6 about how he loves his teammates and wants to improve his own game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKtENcfUSuU

Harden has played with 115 teammates over the years. His attitude is Houston's problem in a nutshell. https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/teammates_and_opponents.fcgi?pid_select=James%20Harden&pid=hardeja01&idx=players&type=t

(09-13-2020, 01:35 PM)cow Wrote: moves Morey has made

(09-13-2020, 01:46 PM)omahen Wrote:

(09-13-2020, 01:35 PM)cow Wrote: moves Morey has made

Morey? It was Harden who demanded CP3 trade and brought his buddy Westbrook. This was crucial for this year demise. Because of this trade Houston had to get rid of Capella, as you can't survive with two non shooters in the line-up. 

Why Harden demanded a trade? Because CP3 commented that Harden type of play might not be best possible, which is totally true. CP3 is a very high IQ basketball player, one of best. Harden should listen, not sulk.

(09-13-2020, 12:18 PM)Tyler Wrote:

(09-13-2020, 09:09 AM)Hypermav Wrote: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1304983513850998788?s=20

"We're a piece away."

Compare and contrast to an equally disappointed Luka talking after game 6 about how he loves his teammates and wants to improve his own game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKtENcfUSuU

Harden has played with 115 teammates over the years. His attitude is Houston's problem in a nutshell. https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/teammates_and_opponents.fcgi?pid_select=James%20Harden&pid=hardeja01&idx=players&type=t