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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 MAVS NEWS: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=677)
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RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - KillerLeft - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 01:40 AM)omahen Wrote: So you don't think:
- season starting early with close to zero training camp
- KP missing first part of the season and slowly catching up
- "half" a team gone for a couple of weeks due to Covid
- players feeling Covid consequences weeks after they returned
have something to do with a bad Mavs start?
On the contrary, I think all of those things contributed GREATLY, and I’ve been saying so consistently. I think those things are still hurting the team to this day, and have impacted them in ways that we can’t even see on the court.
(03-22-2021, 01:40 AM)omahen Wrote: Perhaps even better than we expected.
Depends on what was expected from person to person, I suppose. This is about what I expected in month 2 of the season (before all the stuff above). Like I said before, I never felt like they were anywhere close to being ready to contend, so maybe I am being a little tough on them right now. I guess I’m just ready for more offensive and defensive cohesion at this point. There are times when it’s there, but it’s not as consistent as it could be, imo.
(03-22-2021, 01:40 AM)omahen Wrote: The real problem they do have is short bench as they seem to be unable to replace production if one of the top 7 rotation guys is missing. Let alone more. I hope they will be able to address this by the end of the week.
I’m honestly not sure what I want...I can get behind your way of thinking, for sure. But sometimes I worry that going all-in at this point might just be slamming their foot down on the gas pedal while headed down a dead-end street. Part of me honestly believes they should go into “sell” mode and start over.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - omahen - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 01:48 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I’m honestly not sure what I want...I can get behind your way of thinking, for sure. But sometimes I worry that going all-in at this point might just be slamming their foot down on the gas pedal while headed down a dead-end street.
I think next move is perhaps even more important than Luka and KP ones. It will likely take remaining assets and it will be difficult to correct it if it doesn't work out. Than it all depends where someone thinks the team is. I can totally understand your take that team needs more time and should wait with the last move or at least save the assets. It is possible. I am a bit more optimistic and would like them to do that move now. No way to know who is right.
(03-22-2021, 01:48 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Part of me honestly believes they should go into “sell” mode and start over.
I couild never agree with this. I think Mavs are on a good path. Even if it takes them more time to grow up, they don't need to rebuild. They can just be patient. Important thing is to build a winning culture, not a losing one. You can't be rebuilding with an arguably top 5 player on the roster.
(03-22-2021, 01:48 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: maybe I am being a little tough on them right now
I think NBA is always full of up and downs, especially for teams who are good but not just elite. Games come and go so fast. This season is especially unforgiving due to the schedule. I think that our 7 guys rotation is playing really well for last 15 or so games. Of course there are individual ups and downs but as a team they are there. When one is not working the others step up and you have rare occasions where more guys go totally cold. Not counting the OKC game, they only had two bad defensive performances in last 12 games (Orlando and Portland), but both could also be attributed to some really hot opponent shooting (Orlando almost 50 % from three, Portland over 45 %). Philly was the only game where they really got outclassed since February 6th (18 games). And even that one was "just" a 14 point defeat.
Personally I expected them to be a bit better than last year, somewhere in the top 6. I still have hopes they accomplish that and possibly win a playoff series. If they remain healthy.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - michaeltex - 03-22-2021
Look, since the 6 game losing streak in the middle of the Covid incident and when KP was just back, the team has gone 14-6 including wins against BOS, LAC, POR, DEN, MEM and SAS, so it hasn't been against bottom feeders (like the current ATL streak). Could have been 15-5 but for the MBT brain fart at OKC. So whatever KP's problem is, you can't argue with success.
IMO, he's in need of a reality check. He hasn't proven he can carry the team on a nightly basis, even back in his NYK time, so his light doesn't shine anywhere as brightly as Luka's. KP was brought in a the 2nd star to Luka, but right now he's just a pretty good role player who needs to get past his injury history and develop his game to reach the potential everyone thinks he has. I'm willing to try and grow with KP, but it would be nice to see if he can add something to improve his impact through the summer.
With the easing of the schedule, I expect DAL to get above the play-in scrum and maybe get into the second round. If they have that success it will make for some hard personnel decisions by the MBT this summer.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - KillerLeft - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 11:40 AM)michaeltex Wrote: With the easing of the schedule, I expect DAL to get above the play-in scrum and maybe get into the second round. If they have that success it will make for some hard personnel decisions by the MBT this summer.
I want to go on record with this right now: if the Mavericks finish this year strongly enough to avoid the play-in tournament, given what they have gone through, this season can’t be viewed as anything but a successful step forward.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 03-22-2021
KP's gotta be shell shocked that he went from a budding superstar in NYC to a spot up shooter/role player in Dallas. It's tough. He doesnt really have the type of game where they can force feed him just to keep him happy. The focus is on Luka and the team winning games. Luka also isn't mature enough yet like a Lebron to sense a teammate's frustration and try to placate him.
I get his frustration and he does have a reputation of being a high maintenance guy but not sure what can be done. He's not good enough right now for him to demand a trade and go be the main guy somewhere else.
I dont really think there's a specific problem/dislike between KP, Luka, and/or Rick.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - michaeltex - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 12:02 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: Luka also isn't mature enough yet like a Lebron to sense a teammate's frustration and try to placate him.Maybe, but I will suggest that LeBron isn't really that sensitive to teammate's frustrations. I offer Chris Bosh and Kyrie Irving as Exhibits 1a and 1b. Maybe even DWade and KLove.
LeBron is sensitive to losing, and (like him or not...I'm personally more of the not) he does a great job of not losing. But everywhere he goes, there is no doubt who is the MVP and MIP for the team.
If Luka has that commitment to winning, then DAL will get plenty of candidates to help him along.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 12:47 PM)michaeltex Wrote: Maybe, but I will suggest that LeBron isn't really that sensitive to teammate's frustrations. I offer Chris Bosh and Kyrie Irving as Exhibits 1a and 1b. Maybe even DWade and KLove.
LeBron is sensitive to losing, and (like him or not...I'm personally more of the not) he does a great job of not losing. But everywhere he goes, there is no doubt who is the MVP and MIP for the team.
If Luka has that commitment to winning, then DAL will get plenty of candidates to help him along.
I'm talking more recent. When they traded for Anthony Davis, Lebron came out in the media and said AD was going to be the #1 guy and he'd happily do anything to help AD feel that way.
Obviously not a criticism of Luka as he's 22. 22 and 25yr olds arent ready to defer to each other.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - michaeltex - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 12:53 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: When they traded for Anthony Davis, Lebron came out in the media and said AD was going to be the #1 guy and he'd happily do anything to help AD feel that way.Props to LeBron for making AD feel like he was validated for coming to LA. They sure spent a lot to get him on the team, so it sort of had to work.
That said, the continued team success with AD out indicates that Lebron is still the guy that everyone else has to mesh with. It's in his DNA to play the alpha dog role, so everyone around has to get OK with it.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - Kammrath - 03-22-2021
Consolidating some trade info on the Mavs:
Chris Haynes:
Quote:The Hawks haven’t been overly thrilled with the offerings [for John Collins]. For instance, the Dallas Mavericks proposed a package featuring sharpshooter Maxi Kleber, sources said.
Brad Townsend:
Quote:For Mavs to truly make competitive bids in their variously reported interests in Aaron Gordon, Norman Powell and John Collins, it'll will require parting with Finney-Smith and probably Brunson and pick(s). Seemingly problematic that first 1st-round pick they can offer is in '25.
Jake Fischer:
Quote:The Dallas Mavericks, Minnesota Timberwolves, Detroit Pistons and Atlanta Hawks have all been linked to Norman Powell.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - Kammrath - 03-22-2021
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1374078269373480970
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - dirkfansince1998 - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 02:20 PM)Kammrath Wrote: For Mavs to truly make competitive bids in their variously reported interests in Aaron Gordon, Norman Powell and John Collins, it'll will require parting with Finney-Smith and probably Brunson and pick(s). Seemingly problematic that first 1st-round pick they can offer is in '25.
That´s a big no no. Turning two fringe starters / high level bench players into one legit starter is a lateral move. DFS and Brunson combine for 55 minutes. Even if the new guy gets a starting spot (30+ minutes) they need to find someone else that can give the team 20+ solid minutes.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - Kammrath - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 02:24 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: That´s a big no no. Turning two fringe starters / high level bench players into one legit starter is a lateral move. DFS and Brunson combine for 55 minutes. Even if the new guy gets a starting spot (30+ minutes) they need to find someone else that can give the team 20+ solid minutes.
100% in on that for Collins and I think for AG as well. I truly think DFS and JB are relatively replaceable in the Mavs system.
Collins is such a step above anyone the Mavs have other than Luka IMO that he worth going "all in" on.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - dirkfansince1998 - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 02:29 PM)Kammrath Wrote: 100% in on that for Collins and I think for AG as well. I truly think DFS and JB are relatively replaceable in the Mavs system.
Collins is such a step above anyone the Mavs have other than Luka IMO that he worth going "all in" on.
I really don´t like Collins fit next to KP. Gordon has to be one of the most overrated players in the league. 7th season in the league and it is still about his potential and what he could be in a different role/system.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - omahen - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 02:24 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: That´s a big no no. Turning two fringe starters / high level bench players into one legit starter is a lateral move. DFS and Brunson combine for 55 minutes. Even if the new guy gets a starting spot (30+ minutes) they need to find someone else that can give the team 20+ solid minutes.
I would do it for Collins. I don't think Gordon and especially Powell are worth it. I rather have Fournier for two second rounders.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - ClutchDirk - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 02:29 PM)Kammrath Wrote: 100% in on that for Collins and I think for AG as well. I truly think DFS and JB are relatively replaceable in the Mavs system.
Collins is such a step above anyone the Mavs have other than Luka IMO that he worth going "all in" on.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Yq7n1sakPfO1d0O9Wn/giphy.gif
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - Kammrath - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 02:31 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I really don´t like Collins fit next to KP. Gordon has to be one of the most overrated players in the league. 7th season in the league and it is still about his potential and what he could be in a different role/system.
1) Why don't you like JC next to KP? From my stand point even if they don't work together then it makes KP more expendable.
2) AG has had a really strong positive on/off for 4 of the last 5 years and the other year was a flat +0.0. He is overrated if you expect him to be a "star" but I think he could be the perfect kind of "3rd option" on a team with Luka. I love his potential fit in DAL.
So yeah, I am IN on both JC and AG and would offer quite a bit for either....preferring JC though.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - KillerLeft - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 02:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: 1) Why don't you like JC next to KP? From my stand point even if they don't work together then it makes KP more expendable.
I'm with you here.
On paper, Collins has the ability to fit with KP the same way Powell did last year, with the added benefit of versatility inside and outside shooting that can't be ignored. Sure, KP doesn't want to play that way (at least, he doesn't seem to) anymore, but in my mind, he either gets on this team's page or they ship him out this off-season, at which time they'd know they need to replace him with a guy who fits next to Luka/Collins.
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - ItsGoTime - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 02:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: at which time they'd know they need to replace him with a guy who fits next to Luka/Collins.Turner and another big time contributor for KP in the offseason. That would be awesome if we can get our full starting team by then! First domino needs to fall with us getting Collins, sans KP.
Luka/JRich/other piece of the return for KP/Collins/Turner
I'm loving that starting group so much!
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - cow - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 02:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1374078269373480970
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
![[Image: 200.gif]](https://media2.giphy.com/media/UojzwtZgbbAcKJSzKB/200.gif)
RE: MAVS NEWS: 8th in West | 9th O | 24th D | 10th Net | 14-6 over last 20 games - dirkfansince1998 - 03-22-2021
(03-22-2021, 02:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: 1) Why don't you like JC next to KP? From my stand point even if they don't work together then it makes KP more expendable.
2) AG has had a really strong positive on/off for 4 of the last 5 years and the other year was a flat +0.0. He is overrated if you expect him to be a "star" but I think he could be the perfect kind of "3rd option" on a team with Luka. I love his potential fit in DAL.
So yeah, I am IN on both JC and AG and would offer quite a bit for either....preferring JC though.
1) I don´t think two high volume bigmen will be happy next two each other. Both aren´t really shot creators. More high end finishers. KP is already complaining about his current role on offense. Collins complained about Trae´s usage in Atlanta. Both would probably get even less touches next to another high volume front court player.
Defense is an even bigger problem. Collins is a solid man defender but he is not a rim protector and not a real switchable perimeter defender. Basically average to slightly above average all around. KP is a full time center that needs a versatile perimeter big next to him. Maxi is actually a good fit on defense and makes things a lot easier for KP. Banging in the post against Vucevic in one game. Chasing Kawhi on the perimeter in the next game. Rotating and switching around the defense to prevent difficult matchups for KP. DFS and Maxi really mastered the pre rotation in the last couple of weeks.
Would be a totally different story if the Mavs move on from KP. Collins as the high volume focal point of the pick and roll would be great.
2) I don´t expect him to be a star. I expect high role player impact but I am not as high on his defense as others. For me he has always been the definition of "mediocre" star. Can do everything at a solid level but has no elite skills.