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+--- Thread: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | will indeed start at center (/showthread.php?tid=2205)
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$20.1M? OR $17.2M? to DAL | expects to start at center? - cow - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 02:13 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: And need is a strong word.
Strong, often applicable, but used in an overly simplistic manner. There are limited roster spots, a salary cap to work within and, again, limited options. Team building is hard.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$20.1M? OR $17.2M? to DAL | expects to start at center? - Mavsfan12 - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 02:08 PM)MrGoat Wrote: The kind of wing we want doesn't grow on trees. Signing McGee addressed a need for now. During the regular season Josh Green is probably to have a slightly bigger role and if he keeps improving we may not have to look elsewhere for that extra wing, and he's already shown some flashes of playmaking ability too. The McGee signing signals to me a vote of confidence in Josh Green to keep improving
I love this... I think Green is definitely on a path of improvement to be that guy in the next year or two. Green improved his shot a lot last year and all indications are that he will be better this year. At his age, improvement is still expected. I would hate to trade him for a player that was perceived by some here as better last year - it may be that Josh is the better player this coming year. I would have liked for him to play on the SL team this year to try to grow a bit more and be more aggressive, but the guy is a hard worker, and I expect him to be much improved this season.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$20.1M? OR $17.2M? to DAL | expects to start at center? - cow - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 02:19 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: I love this... I think Green is definitely on a path of improvement to be that guy in the next year or two. Green improved his shot a lot last year and all indications are that he will be better this year. At his age, improvement is still expected. I would hate to trade him for a player that was perceived by some here as better last year - it may be that Josh is the better player this coming year. I would have liked for him to play on the SL team this year to try to grow a bit more and be more aggressive, but the guy is a hard worker, and I expect him to be much improved this season.
I hope he works out but his unwillingness to pull the trigger in the playoffs doesn't sit well with me at all. I'd have been much happier if he was building a brick house. That's experience and something to improve on. Not shooting is inexcusable.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$20.1M? OR $17.2M? to DAL | expects to start at center? - ItsGoTime - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 02:17 PM)cow Wrote: Strong, often applicable, but used in an overly simplistic manner. There are limited roster spots, a salary cap to work within and, again, limited options. Team building is hard.It’s a word used by a poster that thinks they know what the team’s full thinking is based on a report that may or may not be true at the time.
The Mavs said they were looking for a wing.
That may have been true when they said it, it may have been from a source within the organization that doesn’t have full access to every thought in the FO. It may have been true at that time but based on “things”, isn’t true anymore. Even if it came straight from Nico’s mouth, it could be misdirection as well as the other things stated.
Now that we have Luka, THE need is to get guys that fit around him. That will be a trial and error process for a bit.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$20.1M? OR $17.2M? to DAL | expects to start at center? - F Gump - 07-05-2022
(07-05-2022, 02:08 PM)MrGoat Wrote: The kind of wing we want doesn't grow on trees. Signing McGee addressed a need for now. During the regular season Josh Green is probably to have a slightly bigger role and if he keeps improving we may not have to look elsewhere for that extra wing, and he's already shown some flashes of playmaking ability too. The McGee signing signals to me a vote of confidence in Josh Green to keep improving
I think you're right about the possibilities for Green -- and you could also be ahead of the curve on their planning. It does take some time for young players to get there, even with the most optimal circumstances.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - Jym - 07-05-2022
I'm just left wondering what they'll do to bring in some ballhandling
Has to be a trade with Powell coming right?
If he's on the roster when the season starts, I'll be thoroughly confused.
McGee seems more like a luxury than a need and would have made more sense if Brunson was still around
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - Mavsfan12 - 07-06-2022
(07-05-2022, 11:06 PM)Jym Wrote: I'm just left wondering what they'll do to bring in some ballhandling
Has to be a trade with Powell coming right?
If he's on the roster when the season starts, I'll be thoroughly confused.
McGee seems more like a luxury than a need and would have made more sense if Brunson was still around
Disagree. The skillset that McGee brings was the Mavs' most urgent need from last years' team. They have players on the roster that can fill JB's spot - maybe not as ideally as he did, but the hole would be filled. No one on the roster can do what McGee does and it has been a glaring hole! JB would have been the luxury - 3 starting quality PG's.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - mvossman - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 12:16 AM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: Disagree. The skillset that McGee brings was the Mavs' most urgent need from last years' team. They have players on the roster that can fill JB's spot - maybe not as ideally as he did, but the hole would be filled. No one on the roster can do what McGee does and it has been a glaring hole! JB would have been the luxury - 3 starting quality PG's.
My concern is McGee's lack of ability to stay on the court during the playoffs. If he gets run off the court in the playoffs, he is not really filling that need.
(07-05-2022, 11:06 PM)Jym Wrote: I'm just left wondering what they'll do to bring in some ballhandling
Has to be a trade with Powell coming right?
If he's on the roster when the season starts, I'll be thoroughly confused.
McGee seems more like a luxury than a need and would have made more sense if Brunson was still around
Agreed. I could see Powell lasting until the TDL when his expiring will be particularly useful, but we need another ball handler before then.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - F Gump - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 01:01 AM)mvossman Wrote: My concern is McGee's lack of ability to stay on the court during the playoffs. If he gets run off the court in the playoffs, he is not really filling that need.
This works from the idea that a successful signing with McGee means he plays long minutes. I seriously doubt that's what was in mind.
I bet his planned role is about 15 mpg during the season to bang/defend with the big boys so that Wood-Kleber don't get run down, and less in the playoffs where the tendency is smaller ball. They need that big guy, who can wrestle, rebound, defend, bock some shots -- but no expectation they will need him a lot.
In fact, their preference will be for the other team to go smaller, which takes McGee off the floor, but which plays right into the Mavs wheelhouse.
As for why they filled this hole with the MLE rather than get an offense creator to replace Brunson with the MLE, there's no way they had that choice. Brunson clones are not available for 6M. Other than centers, it's going to be very unusual to find players who might make your playoff rotation at all in that price range. (I still think they screwed the pooch by turning down Dragic, who was an ideal opportunity for dirt cheap and surprisingly affordable, but we'll see if they have something better lined up. I have my doubts.)
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - SleepingHero - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 01:01 AM)mvossman Wrote: My concern is McGee's lack of ability to stay on the court during the playoffs. If he gets run off the court in the playoffs, he is not really filling that need.
I mean what are we expecting McGee to provide realistically in the playoffs? He's NEVER been more than 20mpg at best. Right now he's only been 15 mins a game.
How can we say he's getting played off the floor if we're not expected to play him more than 2 quarters at best? McGee's job here is to fill that niche Powell role where he started and played the beginning of quarters.
When winning time comes around, Maxi and Wood can step up and play those minutes.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - ItsGoTime - 07-06-2022
I echo the sentiments that FGump and SH said and add, all he needs to do is not allow the Looneys of the league look like all-NBA types on offense so we can play them off the court on defense too!
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 04:38 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I echo the sentiments that FGump and SH said and add, all he needs to do is not allow the Looneys of the league look like all-NBA types on offense so we can play them off the court on defense too!
But Looney only looked like this because the Mavs big overplayed the perimeter to contain Curry, Poole and Thompson. In a matchup against a team like GS McGee would be played off the floor. Not the other way around. Looney can guard the perimeter. McGee can´t.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - Mapka - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 05:12 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: But Looney only looked like this because the Mavs big overplayed the perimeter to contain Curry, Poole and Thompson. In a matchup against a team like GS McGee would be played off the floor. Not the other way around. Looney can guard the perimeter. McGee can´t.
But he can make them pay on the other side for that gimmic not-really-a-zone defense.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 05:29 AM)Mapka Wrote: But he can make them pay on the other side for that gimmic not-really-a-zone defense.
Can he? He couldn´t against Maxi and Dwight in the Mavs series. Or at least not a degree where the trade off was worth it for the Suns. He lost his minutes to Biyombo. Going back and looking at the last couple of playoff runs it is more of the same. Lakers benched him in WCF. He didn´t play a single minute in the finals.
McGee is a solid regular season body. Don´t expect him to make a difference in the playoffs. On top of the already mentioned trade off his biggest problem is foul trouble and at this point in his career I don´t expect it to change. Ranked 2nd in the league in fouls per36 in the regular season with 5.6. Even worse in the playoffs. 7.3 fouls per36. Basically a self-inflicted minute restriction.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - ItsGoTime - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 05:12 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: But Looney only looked like this because the Mavs big overplayed the perimeter to contain Curry, Poole and Thompson. In a matchup against a team like GS McGee would be played off the floor. Not the other way around. Looney can guard the perimeter. McGee can´t.Overplaying the perimeter would be the problem then. With McGee in, you don’t play that way. Stop the other guys and hope to contain the outburst of the stars. However, I hope you aren’t saying getting Looney switched onto Luka, that Looney is good enough against him that if he isn’t all-NBA on offense he would stay in the game.
If you’re saying the Warriors are a better team than the Mavs, you have no argument here.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - ItsGoTime - 07-06-2022
Also, all of the big guys still start out the beginning of the playoffs playing mostly their regular season minutes. That’s because in the earlier rounds, the bigger bodied of the other teams are playing too. Getting further in is where they aren’t used anymore.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 05:49 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Overplaying the perimeter would be the problem then. With McGee in, you don’t play that way. Stop the other guys and hope to contain the outburst of the stars. However, I hope you aren’t saying getting Looney switched onto Luka, that Looney is good enough against him that if he isn’t all-NBA on offense he would stay in the game.
If you’re saying the Warriors are a better team than the Mavs, you have no argument here.
Oversimplified.
Switching Looney on Doncic is a better option than switching McGee on Curry.
On offense McGee has no real advantage over players like Looney or even Maxi. Not like McGee is a high volume/efficiency post player.
You just highlighted the big problem for the Mavs. With McGee on the floor they would have to change the entire defensive scheme. Looney has no post game and cannot shoot. He is on the floor because he allows the Warriors to switch everything on defense without giving up to much size in the paint. They get the best of both worlds and don´t have to change the scheme.
The problem was the Mavs switching bigs onto guys like Curry or Thompson. Exposing the paint. Often having a wing or guard trying to boxout a bigger player.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 05:53 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Also, all of the big guys still start out the beginning of the playoffs playing mostly their regular season minutes. That’s because in the earlier rounds, the bigger bodied of the other teams are playing too. Getting further in is where they aren’t used anymore.
That´s how I see it. You get McGee to reduce the load of key guys. Hopefully have healthy Kleber and Wood when it matters most. Like most top teams in the last couple of years used to do it. Warriors with Bogut. Cavs with Thompson. Lakers with McGee and Howard.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - ItsGoTime - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 06:00 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Oversimplified.Oversimplified, but they lost playing that way, do you continue to then play that way?
Switching Looney on Doncic is a better option than switching McGee on Curry.
On offense McGee has no real advantage over players like Looney or even Maxi. Not like McGee is a high volume/efficiency post player.
You just highlighted the big problem for the Mavs. With McGee on the floor they would have to change the entire defensive scheme. Looney has no post game and cannot shoot. He is on the floor because he allows the Warriors to switch everything on defense without giving up to much size in the paint. They get the best of both worlds and don´t have to change the scheme.
The problem was the Mavs switching bigs onto guys like Curry or Thompson. Exposing the paint. Often having a wing or guard trying to boxout a bigger player.
RE: FA: JaVale McGee 3yrs/$17.2M to DAL | expects to start at center? - Mapka - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 05:42 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Can he? He couldn´t against Maxi and Dwight in the Mavs series. Or at least not a degree where the trade off was worth it for the Suns. He lost his minutes to Biyombo. Going back and looking at the last couple of playoff runs it is more of the same. Lakers benched him in WCF. He didn´t play a single minute in the finals.
McGee is a solid regular season body. Don´t expect him to make a difference in the playoffs. On top of the already mentioned trade off his biggest problem is foul trouble and at this point in his career I don´t expect it to change. Ranked 2nd in the league in fouls per36 in the regular season with 5.6. Even worse in the playoffs. 7.3 fouls per36. Basically a self-inflicted minute restriction.
We never played this kind of defense, if we had tried that against the Suns they would have shot us into oblivion.