(07-01-2022, 01:57 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Sometimes it helps to be confronted with your own takes. Tell me. Do you see a difference between your evaluation of Brunson before and after he decided to leave?

Quote:Further, I was perfectly willing to hand Brunson a contract of 5/125 following the playoffs, and even then had some wiggle room in me to go higher. But as I stewed and ruminated I started to come back down to Earth. I kept saying, how many other guards could produce well next to Luka at a replacement Brunson level? Are they all worth more than 25 mil a year? I couldn't honestly say yes.  That made me start to sober up from JB. He's a great player, he flashed some great moments as a fit next to Luka,  but he just isn't worth that money full stop. 

Quote:But to continue the merry-go-round of mismanaging by overpaying JB screams to me a panic move.  I don't think panic overpaying makes sense, and I truly believe the Mavs can at least in the short term find viable replacement guys that can allow us to find an even better player than Brunson as a permanent replacement later on. It sounds like plan powder, but the terms have changed and the Mavs are a powerhouse right now having just made the WCF. I think good players will want to play with Luka. 

(07-01-2022, 01:17 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: The pathetic part is how predictable this fanbase is. Brunson leaves and we immediately start to trash him. Question his character. Act like he wasn´t good in the first place. Act like him leaving was the only possible outcome. Not like the Mavs had anything to do with it.

(07-01-2022, 02:47 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Thanks for confirming it. You sobered up and changed your opinion when you learned that Brunson would leave. All month long he was worth it. Two days ago he wasn´t.

Quote:SleepingHero: I have maintained that I think Brunson is a great player, but at the end of the day I just do not think he's worth that money.

Quote:SleepingHero:

He's a great player, he flashed some great moments as a fit next to Luka,  but he just isn't worth that money full stop.

(07-01-2022, 02:55 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: I did not change my opinion on Brunson the player. I changed my opinion on what Brunson the player was worth. You do realize the difference in that right?

(07-01-2022, 02:47 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Thanks for confirming it. You sobered up and changed your opinion when you learned that Brunson would leave. All month long he was worth it. Two days ago he wasn´t.

(07-01-2022, 02:56 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: All of a sudden when it was confirmed that he would leave...

(07-01-2022, 03:00 AM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: You are criticizing the man, but do you actually think that JB is worth 26M per?  That was such a Knick thing to do!  We will never know if the Mavs would have paid up to preserve the asset, (which is what MC said he was going to do), but for them, it was only money.  The Knicks used 28M in capspace on a non-star player.  JB is a good player.  Even a very good player.  He doesn't make that team a contender and they will continue on the mediocre treadmill because of it (and other Knick moves, including a strangely fitted roster).  I wish him well, but he won't win like the Mavs will.  He is set to be the highest paid player on that team, and JB should not be any team's best player.  Not a knock on him.  He just isn't a star.  I think that is perfectly reasonable conclusion for anyone to come to, and you are fine if you want to make the case otherwise.

(07-01-2022, 03:04 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: No not when he was confirmed to leave, but rather when it was the reported the $ that the Knicks were signing him to did I get cold feet.

I looked at what $25M buys you in today's NBA and I thought that Brunson would've been in the lower 1/3rd talent wise in terms of players earning that. It turns out the Knicks gave him even more than $25M a year, which meant the Mavs probably would've had to go to at least near $30M to get Jalen to think about coming back. 

At what price is it ludicrous to pay to maintain the asset? Again, I like Brunson the player. I did not suddenly harbor ill-feelings toward him the moment the Knicks became the frontrunner, and I kept reiterating a 5/110 deal after the draft as a number I'd like him at. The Knicks blew that out of the water.

(06-30-2022, 11:39 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: Regular season and the playoffs are two very different animals too. 

Asking Wood and Maxi to play 48 minutes of center isn’t a good recipe for the regular season.  Asking them to play those kind of minutes in the playoffs does make some sense depending on matchup AND is a lot more doable if you’ve got someone like McGee to eat up those regular season minutes effectively. 

There is value in that.  

And even if the game changes in the playoffs, McGee can give you 10 minutes and also a real option if you’re dealing with an animal down low on the other side and can’t 5 out him off the court.

(07-01-2022, 03:08 AM)fifteenth Wrote: Based on the board's reaction to the Dinwiddie and Bertans trade, and a reading of this thread, I predict that JaVale will be great for the Mavs.:-)

(07-01-2022, 03:19 AM)Dundalis Wrote: Brunson literally does one thing well above average. That's shoot the ball in the mid range. Especially at his height, it's exceptional. But you could see how his one dimensional reliance on it in the playoffs had a detrimental effect on those percentages.

There's nothing else he really does at a high level. He's a low volume 3 pt shooter, with no real pull up game. Fairly average playmaker, and average to below average defender, who can be targeted due to size.

Again, the Mavs had NO INTENTION of keeping Brunson long term. When you understand that, you understand that any contract offering that would have made him immovable in a trade is completely off the table, because the Mavs don't want Brunson here long term, they want him as the centerpiece of a trade for a player they feel would be a better fit with Luka.

So we can talk all day about how the decision is purely based off Cuban wanting to save cash and there is almost definitely an element of that here, but if all Brunson is for the Mavs is a trade piece, then it's literally pointless to retain him on a contract that's no longer desirable in a trade package. End of story. If Brunson was clearly that guy, the second option for a championship caliber team, I do think Cuban would have paid him. But he isn't.

(07-01-2022, 03:35 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: ...and yet such a shitty horribly flawed one dimensional player was easily the Mavs 2nd best player.

(07-01-2022, 03:19 AM)Dundalis Wrote: Brunson literally does one thing well above average. That's shoot the ball in the mid range. Especially at his height, it's exceptional. But you could see how his one dimensional reliance on it in the playoffs had a detrimental effect on those percentages.

There's nothing else he really does at a high level. He's a low volume 3 pt shooter, with no real pull up game. Fairly average playmaker, and average to below average defender, who can be targeted due to size.

Again, the Mavs had NO INTENTION of keeping Brunson long term. When you understand that, you understand that any contract offering that would have made him immovable in a trade is completely off the table, because the Mavs don't want Brunson here long term, they want him as the centerpiece of a trade for a player they feel would be a better fit with Luka.

So we can talk all day about how the decision is purely based off Cuban wanting to save cash and there is almost definitely an element of that here, but if all Brunson is for the Mavs is a trade piece, then it's literally pointless to retain him on a contract that's no longer desirable in a trade package. End of story. If Brunson was clearly that guy, the second option for a championship caliber team, I do think Cuban would have paid him. But he isn't.

(07-01-2022, 04:03 AM)Jommybone Wrote: 1. Jalen is a baller. I think he will prove himself worth his contract. He’s been better every year, and was one of this year’s best in the playoffs, where he outplayed All Star Donovan Mitchell and Hall of Famer Chris Paul. 

2. The Mavs were in a position where the marginal cost of paying Jalen all the way up to the max would affect nothing but Cuban’s bank account. Letting him get away hurts the team in a way that is irreparable. 

(07-01-2022, 04:03 AM)Jommybone Wrote: Not much to be gained from criticizing each other or from defending previous posts. I’m sure many of mine are plain old dumb. But while we’re on the topic, let me add this:

1. Jalen is a baller. I think he will prove himself worth his contract. He’s been better every year, and was one of this year’s best in the playoffs, where he outplayed All Star Donovan Mitchell and Hall of Famer Chris Paul. 

2. The Mavs were in a position where the marginal cost of paying Jalen all the way up to the max would affect nothing but Cuban’s bank account. Letting him get away hurts the team in a way that is irreparable. 

3. Only way this isn’t a total fail of embarrassing proportions is if they rescue a major sign-and-trade asset out of it like the Warriors did upon KD’s departure.

---

It is hard to read this and keep my temper. You are underrating Jalen horribly, in my opinion.

(07-01-2022, 06:00 AM)Halfnir Wrote: I might add that i was in camp "lock him up or trade him by the deadline" most of the time. Funny thing is, if we trade Brunson (for example to NY) at the deadline, he never gets the chance to perform in the playoffs and probably never gets this contract. NY locks him up at 4/60-75, Brunson outperforms this later and the Mavs look like idiots again for giving away such a value player for a minor return at the deadline. It was really hard for Dallas to get out of this situation in a good way, which was fumbled 4 years ago when the Mavs decided to steer Brunson into a FA situation after his first contract and then again not extending or trading him when they had the opportunity.

(07-01-2022, 06:36 AM)mvossman Wrote: The reality is that if we make that contract correctly, Jalen is a restricted free agent last year with NY desperate to get him and the Mavs not thinking he was worth a max extension (like most of this board).  Odds are they either make an offer we don't match or we trade him to them for very limited assets (not our 23 pick).  If there were mistakes with Brunson they were:

Not offering a max extension.  It was a tough decision last summer and I understand why the would not.  If they really could have signed him to the max extension in January, then that was a huge mistake, but Rick Brunson had a huge agenda and I don't really trust anything he has said through this process.  There is also a reasonable chance Brunson does not that that extension even in the summer.  There were thoughts even then that he wanted to be the PG on a team and wanted to test out free agency.

Not trading at deadline.  The question is what they could have gotten?  If NY thinks they already have Brunson in the bag in the summer and most other NBA teams have the same thought, then there might not have been that much on the table.

Not doing an S&T.  Burks and our 23 would have been a no brainer, but not sure that was on the table.  Did they have to pay anything to dump Burks?  Otherwise the only real option was to pay tax dollars for draft capital.  How often does a tax team take on more salary/tax for draft capital?  

Offer 5/125 for Brunson.  My understanding is that they would not go this high.  If this would have gotten him, then this is their biggest mistake.  At worst he is a neutral asset on that contract.  He is starting in the low 20s with the cap likely going up in.  I don't think he is the perfect fit on this team, and we most likely would have eventually traded him, but we should have offered that.  I'm not sure he takes it though.  I think his mind was made up to go to NY.

(07-01-2022, 06:40 AM)Jmaciscool Wrote: I don't think there was any number the Mavs could have offered to keep him. If there was and they didn't then yes, that's a mistake on their part, but I just don't think that was the case