(01-16-2023, 03:29 PM)F Gump Wrote: My point is, as complex as the Turner situation is, I think that decision is what happens FIRST for Indy. That then defines how much cap room they might have left for a Collins pursuit, and impacts how that might look. But until Turner decision is in their past, I don't think they will want to use a giant chunk of cap room for a Collins deal, lest it make the Turner situation even harder to navigate.

(01-16-2023, 04:12 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I listen with interest to Carlisle talking about no desire to trade Turner and wonder who his intended audience is.  It certainly could be the media and other teams, but I wonder if he's not talking to his own front office who so far hasn't gotten the job done with Turner.

(01-16-2023, 06:44 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I think I am back to no trades at deadline.  Although if they lose 3 of 4, all bets are off .

We finally have a few decent Bullock games.  I feel like I have been walking through the sewer all year watching him.  Hate to give him away if daylight is up ahead.   I would certainly move him but it would need to be a move that I thought made us better now and in the future.

Same with Hardaway.  I would move him if I found a love that balances our roster and who made us better.  But if nothing transpired, keep him.  If he plays well this year, he will be more valuable in the off-season.  He will need to trim a few minutes to allow us to get Jaden a handful of minutes.

This off-season it is open season for most everyone on the roster.  But let’s deal in a position of strength if we do not find a trade we view as a win this season.  I would be looking for a guard or 4 or maybe 5 for a 10 day.  Until maxi is back, we may need another playable body.

(01-16-2023, 06:44 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I think I am back to no trades at deadline.  Although if they lose 3 of 4, all bets are off .

We finally have a few decent Bullock games.  I feel like I have been walking through the sewer all year watching him.  Hate to give him away if daylight is up ahead.   I would certainly move him but it would need to be a move that I thought made us better now and in the future.

Same with Hardaway.  I would move him if I found a love that balances our roster and who made us better.  But if nothing transpired, keep him.  If he plays well this year, he will be more valuable in the off-season.  He will need to trim a few minutes to allow us to get Jaden a handful of minutes.

This off-season it is open season for most everyone on the roster.  But let’s deal in a position of strength if we do not find a trade we view as a win this season.  I would be looking for a guard or 4 or maybe 5 for a 10 day.  Until maxi is back, we may need another playable body.

(01-16-2023, 07:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: It's a real bummer that the entire team's health blew up just as they were starting to try to play better. They've actually done fairly well through this stretch of injuries, when you think about it. While I'm sure there are things they want and feel like they don't have, the current situation will make it more difficult to identify the right deal, imo.

(01-16-2023, 08:02 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Personally I support the direct opposite. Try to get the max amount of value in return now that they are looking like halfway useful rotation pieces. I am all in on the future. Don´t really care about the end of the season (and honestly don´t think losing them would make a big difference). Try to move on from role players on the wrong side of 30. Retool and reset the age and salary structure of the team.

The one thing I don´t want to see is another half-hearted attempt to turn the season around with a deadline trade. Something like the Redick trade. They have to make a choice. Pick a direction. Either all in on win now. Or sell with a clear focus on assets and young talent.
Inability to make that choice has been a constant problem over the last couple of seasons. Delaying crucial decisions (contract extensions, trades). Waiting for opportunities that may or may not arrive instead of actively trying to improve the roster.

(01-16-2023, 08:12 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: They took advantage of a soft schedule but I wasn´t encouraged by those games. Took some super human performances from Luka to beat tanking teams and in the few games against good opponents they never stood a chance. Not to mention that the "healthy" (as far as we know) start of the season was just as bad or even worse than a year ago.
Delaying the inevitable won´t help. Didn´t help with KP's trade value. Didn´t help with Brunson's contract.

(01-16-2023, 04:44 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: If you want to give Indy access to all possible avenues you mentioned earlier with Turner, you do the deal that is listed above this post. 

...

.....it doesn't have to be that combo of players to get Turner's renegotiation to $37mm.

(01-16-2023, 09:53 PM)F Gump Wrote: The point of my post was actually the opposite -- which was, that I would expect Indy to FIRST decide what to do about Turner. I don't see them trying to keep all those Turner choices intact while doing a Collins trade, but rather getting the Turner thing out of the way first.

If I'm guessing, I seriously doubt they have any serious plans to give Turner max money this season of $37M, even though in theory that can lead to lower salaries for him later.

I also wonder if Dallas somehow gets in the mix for him eventually, if he isn't extended.

(01-16-2023, 04:18 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I think I read Theis is close to returning (convenient timing).

Smith and LeVert to Atlanta leaves them just under the LT, so that works.  

All of this is predicated on Turner staying (which I think makes sense for him and for Indy).  There is plenty of room to get him done if both sides want to.

Building on your Smith to Atlanta deal (and desire to bring Bitadze here...which I agree with).  It could be: 

THJ to Cleveland 
LeVert and J. Smith and picks to Atlanta (leaving them under the tax)
Collins to Indy
Bitadze and Duarte to Dallas  

INTERESTINGLY...that combination allows Indy to go to Turner's max for 22/23 ($37.1) with pennies to spare.

(01-16-2023, 08:02 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Personally I support the direct opposite. Try to get the max amount of value in return now that they are looking like halfway useful rotation pieces. I am all in on the future. Don´t really care about the end of the season (and honestly don´t think losing them would make a big difference). Try to move on from role players on the wrong side of 30. Retool and reset the age and salary structure of the team.

The one thing I don´t want to see is another half-hearted attempt to turn the season around with a deadline trade. Something like the Redick trade. They have to make a choice. Pick a direction. Either all in on win now. Or sell with a clear focus on assets and young talent.
Inability to make that choice has been a constant problem over the last couple of seasons. Delaying crucial decisions (contract extensions, trades). Waiting for opportunities that may or may not arrive instead of actively trying to improve the roster.

(01-16-2023, 03:53 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I see a guy that outplayed Jokic and Saric as an 18 year old in the same tough ABA league. Leading a rugged adults balkans league in rebounding and shotblocking by a huge margin as a teenager. A guy that has already shown he can block and rebound at an NBA level and that needs an opportunity. Real question is his health imho. But he´s just a throw in, that is cost-effective, has upside and fits perfectly into that role they designated for McGee. Strength, shotblocking and rebounding for 12-18 MPG off the bench. Plus you want a guy to protect Luka and f*** up a Morris twin if necessary....

(01-16-2023, 08:12 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: They took advantage of a soft schedule but I wasn´t encouraged by those games. Took some super human performances from Luka to beat tanking teams and in the few games against good opponents they never stood a chance. Not to mention that the "healthy" (as far as we know) start of the season was just as bad or even worse than a year ago.
Delaying the inevitable won´t help. Didn´t help with KP's trade value. Didn´t help with Brunson's contract.

(01-16-2023, 11:01 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: And someone beat Jordan out to make his HS team.  

Bitadze has shown us that in his 4th year in the league, on a bad team he can only muster 8mpg.  And his numbers are in decline.  I know he's not a stat sheet guy, but signing an MMA heavy weight would fulfill the duties you listed, because I'm not above effing up a Morris twin.

(01-16-2023, 10:43 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Correct.  Sell high.  Buy low.

(01-17-2023, 04:15 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: So what is your take on Christian Wood, who at the same stage of his career, had played for five teams, 200 TOTAL NBA minutes averaging 3 PPG/2 RPG.

I assume we let him go in the summer, since he´ll clearly never amount to anything and can´t even beat up a Morris twin.

(01-17-2023, 09:57 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Huh?  That's all over the place.  Players are who they are, what they produce in the NBA.  Wood is a 20/10/2/2 guy.  How is that remotely comparable to complete scrubs you're trying to trade for?  What does it matter what ANY player was before they produced in the NBA?

(01-17-2023, 08:24 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I guess that was the point of my post earlier.  Who are you selling high on?