(11-08-2022, 10:20 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I disagree with him not being a hooper.   He has had shortcomings in creating off the dribble.  This may always be a shortcoming for him.   It just doesn't appear he will ever be good at facing someone up and getting a basket off the dribble.    He is finishing a little better this year and that has always been a weak spot of his game as well.

But he has always had a nice feel for the game.  He sees the court well.   He just needed confidence and to play with freedom.  You are seeing that now.    

Going back to HS, he has always showed a nice feel for the game.    Hustle/athleticism is a big part of his game.  But if you don't see his feel for the game, you are missing a pretty big part of his skillset.

(11-08-2022, 11:38 AM)mvossman Wrote: but its starting to look like he may end up being close to his ceiling (high quality 3&D worth MLE). 

(11-08-2022, 11:35 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: His entire career has been "small sample" when you're talking about shots at the rim. 

Anyone who analyzed him pre-draft (we had an outstanding thread that summer - the best ever, probs) or watched him play the first couple of years likely noticed he had a knack for turning surefire dunks into ridiculously difficult "touch" layups. 

It was such a glaring deficiency that we discussed so frequently that I had a bit going for a while wherein I'd tag @"Kammrath" with "Green made a layup!" every time he scored one.

(11-08-2022, 11:50 AM)mvossman Wrote: I mean, his entire career has been somewhat small sample given how little he shoots, but he has taken well over 1/3 of his shots at the rim.  If he makes shots more difficult than they should be, I would think that would be reflected in his percentage at the rim?  Maybe he gets a higher percentage of uncontested shots at the rim because they are generally transition?  Maybe his biggest issue is passing away from shots at the rim?  Just curious.

(11-08-2022, 11:50 AM)mvossman Wrote: I mean, his entire career has been somewhat small sample given how little he shoots, but he has taken well over 1/3 of his shots at the rim.  If he makes shots more difficult than they should be, I would think that would be reflected in his percentage at the rim?  Maybe he gets a higher percentage of uncontested shots at the rim because they are generally transition?  Maybe his biggest issue is passing away from shots at the rim?  Just curious.

(11-08-2022, 11:44 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Agree with your assessment, but I'd like to add one minor nuance:

Most of the good, notable 3&D names over the past 20 years or so have taken a while before reaching maximum effectiveness. Our own DFS, Ariza, KCP, etc, etc, etc. When you think about when those guys became sought after players, my strong feeling is that it happened in the age range of say 28 to about 35. 

If Green can reach that level of understanding with the mental things and play like a vet soon, there's insane and rare value in that level of player coming in a 22-26 year old, athletic package.

(11-08-2022, 11:56 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yes to both of the last questions, but...and I say this knowing you follow the team closely, so no disrespect, but I'm telling you, this dude as a rookie was expert level at making a layup 10x more difficult than it needed to be. It's just something we used to observe and discuss on the regular. I have no idea how to reconcile your point about percentages, but I've never been someone to let a stat talk me out of something I feel I learned from watching. I think both ways of learning are valid, but I trust my eyes, personally. 

Anyway, the moral of the story is whatever he has been doing with his practice time is paying off. I'd say his finishing has been GOOD lately, so no sense arguing about the past.

(11-08-2022, 12:07 PM)mvossman Wrote: To be clear, this was less about suggesting Green was good at the rim, and more about curiosity around the failure of the stat.  I tend to crosscheck both.  It took years for advanced stats to convince me that Powell actually contributed to on court success when my eye test was telling me he was useless.

(11-08-2022, 01:33 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I am so glad we are getting a good look at Green.  Whether he has arrived or if this is a part of the bumpy development cycle is TBD.    I was worried we would not get a real look at him when he entered last year outside the rotation.  My take last year is if they were serious about his development, he needed minutes last year.  I am glad we have taken the long view in his development.   Whether he is here for several years or if he is eventually moved, the Mavs need to be right in their evaluation.    Same thing with Hardy.    

Green, like Dwight, is a nice match with Luka.  They don't require plays run for them, they play hard all the time, and they have no ego.   In some ways, I view Green as the more talented guard version of Dwight.

(11-08-2022, 09:43 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: As they start to give him more minutes and involve him in the offense, I expect him to keep producing.

(11-08-2022, 10:01 PM)MFFL Wrote: I just hope the Mavs don't change his role for another 20 or so games. Let Green have a lot of success with this role and build some confidence before giving him a new role (like starting)