+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green (/showthread.php?tid=1911)
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - dynamicalVoid - 11-04-2022
If Green can minimize the defensive plays where his hustle sling-shots him past his defender and the ball carrier blows by him and Josh cant correct fast enough...if he can limit those or minimize those plays per game...he will be even better defensively.
I think he needs to learn to slow down and then use his bursts appropriately. It will prevent blow-bys and should put him in a position to be more in-front of his defender where he can use his hands to disrupt.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Kammrath - 11-08-2022
https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/1589857443965997056
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - F Gump - 11-08-2022
Green is being much more aggressive when he gets the ball on the offensive end of the floor. That's a difference-maker for his upside.
I like this version of Josh Green.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - juanc - 11-08-2022
@"DanSchwartzgan" and me were trying to tell you guys, but no one was listening
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - MFFL - 11-08-2022
(10-23-2022, 05:51 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: It takes one game watching Green play to know he doesn’t know how to hoop.
Care to revise your opinion?
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - dynamicalVoid - 11-08-2022
(11-08-2022, 08:24 AM)MFFL Wrote: Care to revise your opinion?
You werent talking to me...but Im still in this category but Green is giving me hope.
Green is all hustle. And...elite athleticism and speed when coupled with hustle can help out in pretty much all sports. That is what Josh Green is.
He is not some refined player that looks like he was born with a basketball in his hands. He is very sloppy with the ball in his hands but seems to be getting more confident and better. The more playing time he gets the more comfortable and confident he will become...thats why Kidd should play him.
But the point still stands...he is not a "hooper". He is all hustle but learning.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Chicagojk - 11-08-2022
I disagree with him not being a hooper. He has had shortcomings in creating off the dribble. This may always be a shortcoming for him. It just doesn't appear he will ever be good at facing someone up and getting a basket off the dribble. He is finishing a little better this year and that has always been a weak spot of his game as well.
But he has always had a nice feel for the game. He sees the court well. He just needed confidence and to play with freedom. You are seeing that now.
Going back to HS, he has always showed a nice feel for the game. Hustle/athleticism is a big part of his game. But if you don't see his feel for the game, you are missing a pretty big part of his skillset.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo - 11-08-2022
My issue with Green has always been his lack of confidence.
I almost have given up on him on the game where he made a cut to the basket and went for the kickout despite a free lane.
I hope he doesn't go back to being that guy.
Good things happen when a player attacks the basket.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Kammrath - 11-08-2022
(11-08-2022, 10:20 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: he has always showed a nice feel for the game.
YES. JG has a GREAT feel for the game and good instincts. Confidence is his issue, not a lack of basketball intuition.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - dynamicalVoid - 11-08-2022
His feel for the game is hustle.
He is a deer in headlights if his one plan gets foiled. He isnt thinking ahead or thinking about what might happen and have a plan for that. Example...if he sees a lane to the basket he will drive and is only thinking about laying up or dunking. If a defender slides over unexpectedly...he has no clue how to be creative fast enough to maneuver around or adjust to the defender being there. Ja Morant and Luka...they are thinking 4 steps ahead and have moves ready for the unexpected. Ja Morant can adjust mid-air and still get a bucket because of his feel for the game. Please dont tell me Josh is young still...Morant and Luka are young. Please dont say I am comparing him to the elite and its unfair. I am just trying to give you examples of what a feel for the game is offensively. Josh Green is still raw and wild. There is no "smooth" feel for the game look at anything he does. Its all 100mph hustle.
He is hopefully turning a corner into a serviceable offensive player with shooting 3s. Hopefully he gets more confident dribbling and finishing at the rim. The reverse layups he has been doing look very "feel for the game-ish" and hopefully he adds more to his tool bag.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Kammrath - 11-08-2022
(11-08-2022, 10:36 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: His feel for the game is hustle.
No it is more than that. You don't have a 10 assist game when you are NOT the PG if you are only "hustling."
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - DanSchwartzgan - 11-08-2022
(11-08-2022, 10:20 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: It just doesn't appear he will ever be good at facing someone up and getting a basket off the dribble.
Yeah, that is the one we’ve not seen any evidence of. Some consistency there would be a $10mm/year addition to the value of his extension. But, he’s 21. It might not come in time for his next contract (if ever as you suggest).
We’ve seen glimpses of good things happening on drives against closeouts and cuts for three seasons now, but it has gotten better this season. We’ve seen that up and under thing twice now and he’s shown some willingness to drive into contact for the first time this season.
Before it was either drive for a clean layup or drive to dish. At this point, all I really need is consistency in the things he’s shown he can do and good decision making as volume increases. None of the 3&D guys have this skill set to the extent Josh does. Play great D, Hit open threes and either finish through contact or make a smart pass (preferably not leaving his feet every time) plus running out on the break and good rebounding is enough to get him DFS money this summer.
Josh has tended to play better with more minutes. What we don’t know is whether that also holds true as his role increases. I’d be ecstatic if that were also true and would prioritize that over the ability to create for himself at this point.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - KillerLeft - 11-08-2022
(11-08-2022, 10:39 AM)Kammrath Wrote: No it is more than that. You don't have a 10 assist game when you are NOT the PG if you are only "hustling."
He has always been a willing, thoughtful and effective passer, that's for sure. He just wasn't enough of an offensive threat to create passing opportunities, even as a secondary guy. I feel like he's turning a corner there, right before our eyes.
He's really the only player on the entire roster who qualifies as "fast" (and you should all know how I feel about that). What's more, he knows how to use his speed to put pressure on the other team, particularly without the ball, but hey...on a Luka team, that's fine.
His defense is a little overrated, but he's absolutely engaged on that end, which as we know is like 90% of the battle. I think he'll continue to cut down on some of the positioning mistakes he makes, especially because most of them are due to trying too hard, not being slow or lazy.
He's very obviously a team-first type of guy. I have a sense that he's developing into a good pro, not just a good player. That bodes well for the Mavericks, as Harper would say.
His finishing in the paint is 100x better than it was when he came into the league. Ridiculously improved.
His shooting is way better - GOOD, even. I think this is STILL the area that needs the most improvement. Harper said it on the broadcast last night. Teams are still sagging off of him because the word hasn't gotten around yet that he'll hurt you, despite his percentage leading the league. The solution for that is HIGHER VOLUME and a quicker trigger. I continue to feel this is the area of his game that's screaming for growth. He should be out there looking for shots.
All in all, this is starting to look like a decent pick, which the Mavs desperately needed. I was not a fan before the draft, didn't really like the pick, but I tried to be patient his first couple of years. I admit that I was starting to lose patience, so kudos to those who kept the faith.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - dynamicalVoid - 11-08-2022
Im not going to have a 3 page argument dissecting words just to try and clarify something that is obvious.
Josh can hustle, he can pass, he can rebound, possibly starting to hit 3s consistently(still has some ugly shots/clanks)...
When the ball is in his hands trying to create or score at rim...he is very raw and wild. To me...it seems like he has little feel for the game in that regard that most average NBA players seem far more advanced than him. I see kids at my rec center that are far more advanced than him at creating, dribbling in traffic safely and scoring at the rim even after contact. Its a feel thing to me...and Josh doesnt have it. He seems to be taking steps which is all we can ask for.
He looked like one of the worst offensive skilled players in the league until this year. That probably means he has an issue with feel for the game offensively. Again...no need to argue about this for pages and pages. I agree he looks a lot better this year. But he isnt in the average NBA "hooper" category offensively yet.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - michaeltex - 11-08-2022
He definitely looks better this year. Better at moving without the ball and finding paths to the hoop. Better at passing on the move. Even better at distance shooting.
It's not just building his confidence, which I think is moving up with a bullet, but also building his teammates confidence in his contributions. There were times before when you couldn't play him because it freed a help defender. Now that's going to be a defensive problem if he's left open.
Interesting to follow his progression through the season and hope he's a strong contributor in the playoffs.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - KillerLeft - 11-08-2022
(11-08-2022, 11:07 AM)michaeltex Wrote: but also building his teammates confidence in his contributions.
NO QUESTION.
It's a significant thing that Kidd chose to close with Green over Bullock. Extremely significant, and I don't think they win without that choice.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - dynamicalVoid - 11-08-2022
Can anyone tell me what the deal is with Green just standing in the corner on offense most of the time?
I assume hes being told to do this. But is he being tested to see to gage his IQ? Example: They are telling him to do that but want to see if he will slide over to the open pocket or see if he will do something else that contributes to a bucket? Testing his game IQ essentially.
I dont see why he is constantly just over there waiting for a kick out. Why do DFS and Bullock get wide open 3s but Green cant get one. Is Green not allowed to slide to the open pocket?
Did Luka give Green the nod of approval last night by allowing Green to set picks for him? He trusted Green to hit the open 3 if Luka got doubled? (AND...this isnt how DFS and Bullock get all their open 3s)
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - mvossman - 11-08-2022
(11-08-2022, 10:20 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I disagree with him not being a hooper. He has had shortcomings in creating off the dribble. This may always be a shortcoming for him. It just doesn't appear he will ever be good at facing someone up and getting a basket off the dribble. He is finishing a little better this year and that has always been a weak spot of his game as well.
But he has always had a nice feel for the game. He sees the court well. He just needed confidence and to play with freedom. You are seeing that now.
Going back to HS, he has always showed a nice feel for the game. Hustle/athleticism is a big part of his game. But if you don't see his feel for the game, you are missing a pretty big part of his skillset.
Its interesting, I have seen multiple comments on his issues with finishing, but he has shot in the upper 60s at the rim for his career, which is well above the NBA average. In a small sample he is shooting 90 this season.
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - dynamicalVoid - 11-08-2022
(11-08-2022, 11:24 AM)mvossman Wrote: Its interesting, I have seen multiple comments on his issues with finishing, but he has shot in the upper 60s at the rim for his career, which is well above the NBA average. In a small sample he is shooting 90 this season.
I think this is scenario where stats clash with eye test.
You need a stat to back up your stat. What are the numbers on him driving and then kicking out because he couldnt do anything or lost the ball out of bounds because he fumbled it in traffic, etc.
Your comment is what leads to message boards being over-run with pages and pages and pages of arguing. Your stat might be right....but what if every NBA player said Green isnt very good at finishing?
Your stat might be right...but if no one wants to put the ball in Greens hand who is right?
It feels like some trap to get you to go sift through hours and hours of video and then spend hours and hours editing some video to prove a point. It shouldnt be that hard. Sometimes the eye test is right.
My opinion...I think if you polled most NBA players they would say Josh has a below average feel for game with the ball in his hands. Your stat says otherwise. Who is right?
RE: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - KillerLeft - 11-08-2022
(11-08-2022, 11:24 AM)mvossman Wrote: Its interesting, I have seen multiple comments on his issues with finishing, but he has shot in the upper 60s at the rim for his career, which is well above the NBA average. In a small sample he is shooting 90 this season.
His entire career has been "small sample" when you're talking about shots at the rim.
Anyone who analyzed him pre-draft (we had an outstanding thread that summer - the best ever, probs) or watched him play the first couple of years likely noticed he had a knack for turning surefire dunks into ridiculously difficult "touch" layups.
It was such a glaring deficiency that we discussed so frequently that I had a bit going for a while wherein I'd tag @"Kammrath" with "Green made a layup!" every time he scored one.