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+--- Thread: THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green (/showthread.php?tid=1911)
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - dynamicalVoid - 10-20-2022
(10-20-2022, 09:02 PM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: I hate to see him go too.
The energy he brings might not be sustainable, but he is a plus defender, has good vision, has decent handles, is quick and his vertical is something almost always lacking among Mavs guards.
But he needs to score. Fans aren't asking him to score 12 a night, most would be happy with him shooting when he needs to. IMHO, the play where he passed it to Bullock was even worse than Ben Simmons'.
Hopefully someone from the coaching staff points this flaw and never makes this same mistake again.
Yeah...he should have used his explosiveness and jumped right to the rim asap after receiving that pass. Or pump faked the nearest defender and then exploded for a layup.
But I think hes afraid to get his shot blocked in the paint.
Anyway...really hope they can find a way to use him that works for the team. Like I said...those energy hustle plays are huge in Playoffs and he has that exceptional hustle and speed. Hope he figures it out.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - hakeemfaan - 10-21-2022
Problem with him is that even if he does good in the regular season you can’t know if he will go into a shell in the post season. Playing poorly is ok. Suddenly not even trying to score is not. That’s the problem once you show you have that weirdness in you. Very hard to get any trust. I would rather invest all the time in JH.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - HoosierDaddyKid - 10-22-2022
(10-21-2022, 06:57 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: Problem with him is that even if he does good in the regular season you can’t know if he will go into a shell in the post season. Playing poorly is ok. Suddenly not even trying to score is not. That’s the problem once you show you have that weirdness in you. Very hard to get any trust. I would rather invest all the time in JH.
Correct. Don't need another Ben Simmons who's scared to shoot, even though Simmons is great in other areas.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Kammrath - 10-22-2022
![[Image: FfsXfB7XEAIQqli?format=jpg&name=large]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfsXfB7XEAIQqli?format=jpg&name=large)
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - dynamicalVoid - 10-22-2022
We cant see Green because THJ ball hogging. Get THJ off this team. Everyone is a willing passer but him. Hes out for his and his only. Move him yesterday.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Winter - 10-23-2022
I just don't think Green believes himself to be a 25 mpg type of player. Being timid on the offensive end of the floor will not earn you minutes.
Tyler Dorsey currently has more confidence than Green.
Unless something truly dramatic happens before the trade deadline, I don't see how he remains on this team when Hardy and Dorsey need minutes.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Chicagojk - 10-23-2022
I though Green was fine to good last night. There was one drive in the second quarter where he drove the baseline and tried to leave a pass for Wood that I wished he would have gone up at the rim and tried to score. But other than hoping he would get 2-3 more looks on jumpers, I thought he was good.
I love how he is guarding ball handlers. He is really active. if he is playing like this on defense, he is going to get minutes. The more minutes he gets, the more confidence he gets and the more opportunity to see growth on the court. I think seeing him close to 18-20 minutes a night consistently will give us a real good opportunity to evaluate him and see if his game goes up a notch.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - ItsGoTime - 10-23-2022
If he’s getting 18-20 mpg, he should be able to get 10 ppg. That, to ma, will be the litmus test for him. A point every 2 minutes.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Jason Terry - 10-23-2022
Defense and energy look good. I had the same problem with that drive of his. He needs to be playing above the rim and using his athleticism more on offense. The bigger question is the shot, but he’s worth sticking with to see if he can grow
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - ItsGoTime - 10-23-2022
That’s where he can turn the corner and become the roughly $1M per ppg guy like Bullock and DFS!
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Winter - 10-23-2022
(10-23-2022, 08:31 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: The more minutes he gets, the more confidence he gets and the more opportunity to see growth on the court. I think seeing him close to 18-20 minutes a night consistently will give us a real good opportunity to evaluate him and see if his game goes up a notch.
Didn't we say this when he was a rookie???
He's had time to get 18-20 mpg, but it's not happening. Right now he's barely a rotation player. You have guys like Hardy, Wright, and Dorsey waiting in the wings. Soon, Facundo will be here (henceforth I will refer to him as the "little pizza").
Chicago, you have some of the more reasonable comments, but that opinion of Green just looks like a post from three years ago.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Scott41theMavs - 10-23-2022
(10-23-2022, 11:11 AM)Winter Wrote: Didn't we say this when he was a rookie???
He's had time to get 18-20 mpg, but it's not happening. Right now he's barely a rotation player. You have guys like Hardy, Wright, and Dorsey waiting in the wings. Soon, Facundo will be here (henceforth I will refer to him as the "little pizza").
Chicago, you have some of the more reasonable comments, but that opinion of Green just looks like a post from three years ago.
None of those guys provides what Green does as a good-sized perimeter defender. Facu is pesky on PGs on ball, but that's about it. Green's plusses are very important in Kidd's system.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Winter - 10-23-2022
(10-23-2022, 12:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: None of those guys provides what Green does as a good-sized perimeter defender. Facu is pesky on PGs on ball, but that's about it. Green's plusses are very important in Kidd's system.
You can get a good-sized perimeter defender in any trade. Green is nothing special. Trade him for a veteran upgrade. There's just no reason to keep pretending he's a "potential" starter when he hasn't even become a reliable rotation player.
Green's upside is probably somewhere in Ntilikina territory. I think people see things in him that just aren't there.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Scott41theMavs - 10-23-2022
(10-23-2022, 01:01 PM)Winter Wrote: You can get a good-sized perimeter defender in any trade.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - dynamicalVoid - 10-23-2022
(10-23-2022, 01:01 PM)Winter Wrote: You can get a good-sized perimeter defender in any trade. Green is nothing special. Trade him for a veteran upgrade. There's just no reason to keep pretending he's a "potential" starter when he hasn't even become a reliable rotation player.
Green's upside is probably somewhere in Ntilikina territory. I think people see things in him that just aren't there.
Im not a Green homer by any means and have been hard on him about his offense...
but if you are suggesting hes not jump off the screen pesky on defense, even if it leads to him getting beat because of over hustle sometimes....or that he doesnt noticeably deflect ball or run loose balls down with his hustle then I dont know what to tell you. Seems like he makes frequent hustle plays to me. Doesnt mean he needs to start or anything...just saying that he does have something with size, strength and hustle.
His offense is bad and Im not a fan of stand and shoot offensive players. He needs to show something by TDL or show major improvement by end of year or I say move him.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - cow - 10-23-2022
I'm not really impressed by his defense tbh. His positioning is good but it doesn't seem like he ever bothers offensive players. He does get pretty active on help defense. His best traits is how he uses his athleticism to attack rebounds and he how it ease he is with the ball in his hands.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - Winter - 10-23-2022
I'm with Cow on this.
There are vet wing guys playing for the minimum who can play defense and score 6 points a game. Every team has some of those. That doesn't mean Green is junk. And it also doesn't mean we need to over-value him.
Josh could play for years in the NBA just as well as guys like Frankie or James Johnson can hang around. Lots of players are situational players. Justin Jackson is still in the league (barely), but he is pretty much still the same old Justin Jackson as he was after his second year - but with fewer and fewer minutes every year. We don't need to hold onto Green thinking he's starter material. His value is not likely to be much better in two years. I'm pretty sure management knows that.
I've heard "give him some time" since he was drafted. The average number of playing years for a typical NBA player is 4.5 years, and we've been "grooming" Josh for over half that. Most teams know what they have after this length of time.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - dynamicalVoid - 10-23-2022
If we are stuck with THJ because he could be untradeable...just give Green THJ's minutes. THJ is trash. Give Josh good minutes with top 8 or 9 rotation guys and see if he is capable of catching a rhythm...decent real game time minutes and he might get comfortable or something change with him mentally and he turns a corner. Only play THJ if they need serious points from the second unit and hope THJ is getting that particular night.
Ive long griped about Greens offense and have said numerous times if he hasnt figured it out yet he aint. But I would give him one last serious effort to see if something changes...if not, move him if possible or let contract expire. BUt definitely dont play THJ lol
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - SwisherPrice - 10-23-2022
As a Green fan, I hope they trade him (and I bet he probably hopes so too). The opportunities will never come for him as he is so far down on the pecking order on offense. As long as DFS, Bullock, THJ, and Dinwiddie are ahead of him, all he can do is just be a floor-spacer and wait to see if the ball swings to him. From a Mavs perspective, they can easily replace his role with Dorsey or Pinson (or Danny Green in FA next summer)
It's a veteran team and they're not going to run many offensive sets for him or even let him do anything more than bring the ball up the floor. It is what it is...nothing can really be changed unless there is an injury. But you also see why the Grizzlies are good at developing young players - even in yesterday's game, you could see the difference in how they let rookies like David Roddy and Jake LaRavia have the freedom to do way more on offense. It might not be pretty but it will pay off later in the season.
RE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green - cow - 10-23-2022
(10-23-2022, 03:51 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: As a Green fan, I hope they trade him (and I bet he probably hopes so too). The opportunities will never come for him as he is so far down on the pecking order on offense. As long as DFS, Bullock, THJ, and Dinwiddie are ahead of him, all he can do is just be a floor-spacer and wait to see if the ball swings to him. From a Mavs perspective, they can easily replace his role with Dorsey or Pinson (or Danny Green in FA next summer)
It's a veteran team and they're not going to run many offensive sets for him or even let him do anything more than bring the ball up the floor. It is what it is...nothing can really be changed unless there is an injury. But you also see why the Grizzlies are good at developing young players - even in yesterday's game, you could see the difference in how they let rookies like David Roddy and Jake LaRavia have the freedom to do way more on offense. It might not be pretty but it will pay off later in the season.
Opportunity is a good point and it's why comparing Josh to Dorian is a little skewed. Josh might look better had he joined the Mavs when Dorian did as there was more opportunity there. Then again, Rick Carlisle.
(10-23-2022, 03:29 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: If we are stuck with THJ because he could be untradeable...just give Green THJ's minutes. THJ is trash. Give Josh good minutes with top 8 or 9 rotation guys and see if he is capable of catching a rhythm...decent real game time minutes and he might get comfortable or something change with him mentally and he turns a corner. Only play THJ if they need serious points from the second unit and hope THJ is getting that particular night.
Ive long griped about Greens offense and have said numerous times if he hasnt figured it out yet he aint. But I would give him one last serious effort to see if something changes...if not, move him if possible or let contract expire. BUt definitely dont play THJ lol
Good in principle but THJ can catch fire and change the dynamic of a game. Josh can't. Further, THJ is your second highest paid player and if you have any hopes of trading him, you are going to submarine any trade value he might have by not playing him. You'd also have close to $50m in contracts that you are actively trying to avoid playing with THJ and Bertans being here another two years (though, I think you are only on the hook for $4m of Bertans final year if he fails to play 75% of his games next year).