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+--- Thread: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS (/showthread.php?tid=1765)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Mapka - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 02:20 AM)cow Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shO98UPFMDg
Don't know what it says about Bertans, but it makes me happy to not have Advija on my team.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Chicagojk - 02-13-2022
Not surprising the Washington team had issues. That was a really deep team where most guys deserved NBA minutes. They got off to a good start this year, but it was probably eventually going to end where a lot of the players were unhappy with their minutes/role.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Mapka - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 08:22 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Not surprising the Washington team had issues. That was a really deep team where most guys deserved NBA minutes. They got off to a good start this year, but it was probably eventually going to end where a lot of the players were unhappy with their minutes/role.
Wow I'm not sure I'd second this.
I see Beal, KCP and maybe Kuzma or Gafford as in deserve.
I can see Spencer and Bertans being unhappy to lose minutes to the other players. LoL
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 03:58 AM)Mapka Wrote: Don't know what it says about Bertans, but it makes me happy to not have Advija on my team.Ummmm, that video showed Bertans drawing first blood my dude.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Mapka - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 10:00 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Ummmm, that video showed Bertans drawing first blood my dude.
I don't care about going at each other in the heat of the moment mostly.
It's this fake tough "hold me back" stuff against a own teammate after getting shouted out for something.
Look I'm Bayern Fan too and I lost count about players going at each other for real. But they sort it out later and stay Pros or go.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 11:12 AM)Mapka Wrote: I don't care about going at each other in the heat of the moment mostly.Eh, I didn’t see it that way. Fake tough hold me back has the guy going forward. Avdina made no attempt to go forward as he was being pushed away from the situation. To me he looked like he was trying to figure out why Bertans was mad at him the whole time, from on the court, to the bench. Holding your hands up while being gently pushed away from the situation suggests that.
It's this fake tough "hold me back" stuff against a own teammate after getting shouted out for something.
Look I'm Bayern Fan too and I lost count about players going at each other for real. But they sort it out later and stay Pros or go.
I think you need to watch the video a couple times more.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Mapka - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 11:23 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Eh, I didn’t see it that way. Fake tough hold me back has the guy going forward. Avdina made no attempt to go forward as he was being pushed away from the situation. To me he looked like he was trying to figure out why Bertans was mad at him the whole time, from on the court, to the bench. Holding your hands up while being gently pushed away from the situation suggests that.
I think you need to watch the video a couple times more.
Hey, maybe I see things that aren't there ?
But his behaviour seems odd to me and the others seem to be used to it.
Also don't know why Bertans is angry at him.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-13-2022
Also, I think fake tough you’re talking about in American basketball is an American basketball player thing. I could be wrong, of course.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Mapka - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 11:38 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Also, I think fake tough you’re talking about in American basketball is an American basketball player thing. I could be wrong, of course.
I don't think fake tough is the right word for what I want to say, is passiv - aggressiv understandable in english?
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 11:38 AM)Mapka Wrote: Hey, maybe I see things that aren't there ?Watch the on court part. Play is stopped and Advija is looking like something is bothering him, in his head. He then gets woken up with Bertans being the aggressor putting a finger in his face aggressively. All the while Deni has his hands up like, “What are you talking about”.
But his behaviour seems odd to me and the others seem to be used to it.
Also don't know why Bertans is angry at him.
Bertans then goes to the bench looking like he’s barking to the coaches and pointing backwards (assuming at Deni). So Bertans wasn’t done barking about being upset with whatever he was upset about. There is s good smount of time til the next scene, so snything could have happened there, but from what was shown, Bertans drew first blood and while Avdija wasn’t able to let it go (the professional thing to do…unless this isn’t the first time), his aggression seemed to be words, not actions.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Mapka - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 11:49 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Watch the on court part. Play is stopped and Advija is looking like something is bothering him, in his head. He then gets woken up with Bertans being the aggressor putting a finger in his face aggressively. All the while Deni has his hands up like, “What are you talking about”.
Bertans then goes to the bench looking like he’s barking to the coaches and pointing backwards (assuming at Deni). So Bertans wasn’t done barking about being upset with whatever he was upset about. There is s good smount of time til the next scene, so snything could have happened there, but from what was shown, Bertans drew first blood and while Avdija wasn’t able to let it go (the professional thing to do…unless this isn’t the first time), his aggression seemed to be words, not actions.
Looking at it again, what kind of shitty play is this?
Avdija with this no pick, the Sixers(¿) with this terrible doubling and Bertans with this rushed baaaad three 5 seconds in the shotclock, when Avdija is aaaall alone on his side.
Yeah, it's not just words but also body language, going at the coach.
I think I would have like it better if he really got after Bertans lol.
€dit: Oh I see why Bertans is angry now. Avdija is supposed to keep Curry away but prefers to set himself up for something....
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 12:02 PM)Mapka Wrote: Looking at it again, what kind of shitty play is this?Ya, Deni was posting up and was late for the pick. That’s the only thing I can gather Bertans might be upset with. However, Bertans shouldn’t have left so early seeing that Deni was posting up. There was little separation from his man and he shot a fade away 3. You’re right, bad choices all the way around ending in hot heads not able to cool off.
Avdija with this no pick, the Sixers(¿) with this terrible doubling and Bertans with this rushed baaaad three 5 seconds in the shotclock, when Avdija is aaaall alone on his side.
Yeah, it's not just words but also body language, going at the coach I think I would have like it better if he really got after Bertans lol.
Honestly, that’s what KP will do there (post up and be late for screens) so they better get used to that!!!
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Mapka - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 12:08 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Ya, Deni was posting up and was late for the pick. That’s the only thing I can gather Bertans might be upset with. However, Bertans shouldn’t have left so early seeing that Deni was posting up. There was little separation from his man and he shot a fade away 3. You’re right, bad choices all the way around ending in hot heads not able to cool off.
Honestly, that’s what KP will do there (post up and be late for screens) so they better get used to that!!!
So a good thing Bertans isn’t there anymore.
I will have to watch some Wiz games maybe.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 12:13 PM)Mapka Wrote: So a good thing Bertans isn’t there anymore.As long as he doesn’t bring that attitude to our team, he should be just fine.
I will have to watch some Wiz games maybe.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Mapka - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 12:21 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: As long as he doesn’t bring that attitude to our team, he should be just fine.
Yeah, let's see.
By the way, seeing this "pick" makes me wanting Adams on the Mavs again.
He might even be a fit, now that KP is gone.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 12:30 PM)Mapka Wrote: He might even be a fit, now that KP is gone.
The above is an under-discussed notch in the pros column during our discussions about this, I believe.
Thinking about all the names we've wished and hoped for around here over the past few years, I'd estimate that 65-70% of them have no business being in a lineup with Porzingis. He's actually a pretty difficult player to build around, even when playing well. If he's playing well enough, that doesn't matter, but for whatever reason (injuries, on-court play style, chemistry, whatever) the fit with Luka just never really got there.
This opened up sooooo many ways forward, imo. It's probably KP's best bet to get himself back on the map, too.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Mapka - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 12:34 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: An under discussed notch in the pro's column during our discussions about this.
Thinking about all the names we've wished and hoped for around here over the past few years, I'd estimate that 65-70% of them have no business being in a lineup with Porzingis. He's actually a pretty difficult player to build around, even when playing well. If he's playing well enough, that doesn't matter, but for whatever reason (injuries, on-court play style, chemistry, whatever) the fit with Luka just never really got there.
This opened up sooooo many ways forward, imo. It's probably KP's best bet to get himself back on the map, too.
KP is a center, so other centers were out. But not being able to set good picks made this a mandatory for his PF.
I didn't look at this like that, until now. But you are right. I always tought KP should be at least a ok fit with Luka. Not having a PICK&Pop guy made it awkward i think.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-13-2022
In terms of on court play, one thing I find interesting about this trade is that both teams seem to be trying to sell angles that have an element of hopeful wishing to them.
Washington's coach stuck his neck out a bit too far, imo, declaring that Beal/KP were going to be an effective tandem in the "two-man game." KP might keep playing better and better there if his health holds up, but I don't really see a reason he and Beal would be any more effective two-man partners (the phrase seems to imply pick setting, playing off of Beal, etc) than KP was with Luka. It might work for some reason I don't understand at this time, but I'm skeptical.
Similarly, there has been optimism from DAL that Dinwiddie is going to be able to play effectively off-ball with Luka. I've seen in a couple of places that even this year, a down year for Dinwiddie coming off of a major injury, he has been noticeably better when NOT playing with Beal. I have no trouble whatsoever believing that Dinwiddie as the lead guard in situations when both Brunson and Luka rest will be a significant upgrade off the bench for Dallas. But, that amount of time, while crucial, will be fairly insignificant in terms of percentage of game time. Likely to get less and less significant as we move down the stretch and into the playoffs, too. Basically, if he can't play WITH Luka and Brunson this is going to fail pretty hard, fit wise. I suppose there was a time when we argued the same thing regarding Brunson and Luka, and that seems silly now. But, unlike Dinwiddie, Brunson can catch-and-shoot a little. Maybe I'm underrating that part of Dinwiddie's game.
Bertans, on the other hand, would seem to fit this team like a glove, as all the things they needed to do with Porzingis that he was just not happy doing are the things Bertans wants to do. I guess the only issue with him is about whether or not he is even still a good player anywhere.
It's all fascinating to me. I'm getting more and more excited to see how this plays out for both teams.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-13-2022
Speaking of Bertans career numbers (you know, since we’re using that to justify hope for his 3pt%). For his career he scores 8.4 ppg, gets 2 made 3’s per game and averages 19.4 mpg. Hardly cause to believe he can become a neutral value contract. Also hardly reason to be excited about receiving. The players we’re receiving are meh. KP was a step above meh.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - burekemde - 02-13-2022
(02-13-2022, 01:52 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Speaking of Bertans career numbers (you know, since we’re using that to justify hope for his 3pt%). For his career he scores 8.4 ppg, gets 2 made 3’s per game and averages 19.4 mpg. Hardly cause to believe he can become a neutral value contract. Also hardly reason to be excited about receiving. The players we’re receiving are meh. KP was a step above meh.
For me consistency is the key. Does a player almost guarantee you those 8.4 per night or does he give you much higher than that one game and fades away in 2-3 games....If Bertains is consistent, 8 points per game is amazing production to know each single game to get from a role player. The latter is horrible. Luka, Brunson are highly consistent players and we need to build more on consistency. I dont know much about Dinwiddie and Bertans. We definitely need the bench unit to play a lot better, a lot more consistent, so I hope they bring some consistency to the bench. Automatic points when they come on.