+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS (/showthread.php?tid=1765)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Chicagojk - 02-12-2022
I just think Dinwiddie is at his best with a lot of minutes and the ball in his hands. If he is getting only 15-20 minutes then passing on the Dragic trade is even more concerning. Now if he doesn't deserve more than 15-20 minutes, that is another issue.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:45 AM)Kammrath Wrote: Not if the Mavs want to win. Luka needs to find some key rest in the playoffs if he is to be fresh for the finish. He has not shown himself to be able to play 40+ mins of playoff intensity at a consistently high level.
I think "5 minutes" was hyperbole for humor, but I agree with his point. IF Dinwiddie struggles playing with Luka and/or Brunson, this trade won't be of much use in the playoffs.
But, who knows, maybe they'll make those pairings work, somehow?
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - omahen - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:46 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Maybe the idea is to give Luka a real breather instead of the usual carry the team for three quarters and collapse in the last few minutes stuff that we saw in the last two years.
I take 32-34 minutes with effort and energy on both ends over 40+ minutes of coasting.
I don't think that will be the case. Even in that case, I doubt Dinwiddie would be happy playing 15 minutes per game. And even if he would be, paying someone 18 mil to play 15 minutes is a huge waste of assets. The only win-win-win situation is if Dinwiddie plays more minutes, which means playing with Luka. And the combination has to work on court.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:48 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I just think Dinwiddie is at his best with a lot of minutes and the ball in his hands. If he is getting only 15-20 minutes then passing on the Dragic trade is even more concerning. Now if he doesn't deserve more than 15-20 minutes, that is another issue.
I anticipate the Mavs will try to play him for 25-30 mins as they figure out his role. He will need to play with Luka some, but I think he needs to have the run of the team when Luka sits.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:49 AM)omahen Wrote: The only win-win-win situation is if Dinwiddie plays more minutes, which means playing with Luka. And the combination has to work on court.
100% agree. SD will need to find positive minutes alongside Luka to get his full value.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:50 AM)Kammrath Wrote: I anticipate the Mavs will try to play him for 25-30 mins as they figure out his role. He will need to play with Luka some, but I think he needs to have the run of the team when Luka sits.
This will absolutely be the approach. It's a no-brainer.
My worry is that the minutes with Luka (or Brunson) look like the Richardson/Delon Wright minutes, only with even less payoff on the defensive end.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:51 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: My worry is that the minutes with Luka (or Brunson) look like the Richardson/Delon Wright minutes, only with even less payoff on the defensive end.
Don't worry, NOTHING can be worse than JRich on the defensive end, not even SD.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - DanSchwartzgan - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 07:57 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Tim Cato had an article about the trade. He thinks Dinwiddie is a 15-20 minute per game player. Said he doesn't think he will be play a lot with Luka. If you can coach him into an incredibly direct bench scorer, this could work. But also mentioned if he is the player he has been for Washington, he could see him falling out of a playoff rotation mid series. Mentioned his trouble getting to the rim after his surgery.
Thinks Bertans is a 10-20 minute guy if effective as a stretch 4. If he isn't, he'll end up like Nicolo Melli did last season.
Not a negative article, talks about both sides of the trade.
I”m listening to his podcast now….making notes as they talk:
Cato: What did we really give up in KP as pertains to the rest of this season. Mav’s have toyed with benching him late in games. It wasn’t just minute limits that had him not playing late in the fourth. Issue is D when teams go small. Ceiling is lower, but how much worse are we certain they are. What are we really missing?
Guests: Interior D and the occasional game where he has a big scoring night. Who else can do that. It doesn’t change regular season, but limits the punchers chance we might have had in the second round).
Guests: Summer…can’t have THJ, SD and Bertans coming off the bench at the money they make. Something has to give. FO betting on themselves that greater flexibility allows them to better make improvements in the summer.
Cato: Why are fans so angry
Guests: Dallas traded the best player in the deal and distrust of FO. Fans are tired of hearing space and flexibility. Why now is another element. Could have been this summer (Cato pushes back…too much risk in waiting).
Cato: Good set up for the middle of a rebuilding process. Never really rebuilt because they were good too fast. Poured assets into KP and didn’t have the extra pieces and picks (like Atlanta or Memphis or Phoenix) to get a true second star. This gives the framework of contracts to trade with picks (almost all stars move through trade…not free agency). KP’s contract was too unwieldy to do that. (Long way of saying we are better set up today for the next trade than we were Wednesday).
Cato: KP wanted to stay here. He was happy. Current injury wasn’t a big deal. This was 100% the Mav’s wanting to set up for the next thing.
Cato: How do the Mav’s get better. What does package look like.
Guests: Love Brunson, but he instantly becomes less valuable as a trade asset once he gets his money. Talks about S&T Brunson some. Maybe one of SD or Bertans rebuilds their value.
Guests: SD fit with Luka might be clunky. Not good off the ball. Could be good sixth man…Spencer to the rescue like 19/20. Let him cook by himself. Bertans is a real movement shooter…better than McDermott. Not expecting much from either, but both could be something.
Cato: Bertans clearly can shoot. SD used to take lots of shots near rim. Fewer now. Both may not be as athletic as they once were. Bertans can still knock down corner threes. But movement may or may not come back. 15 minute a night role for Bertans and maybe 20 minutes for SD. Both off the bench.
Guests: Another large guard that you pair with Brunson could work. You might let SD runs some stuff by himself or he may play some with Luka and some with SD.
Cato: More likely Luka and Brunson play more minutes together and SD is sole PG. Don’t think SD is functional next to another PG. Better on his own being the guy for limited minutes. Ability to get to the rim is biggest thing he can offer…if he can still do it.
Guest: Wizards have a weird offense and lane is crowded. SD has probably lost a step, but thinks there may be more opportunity to get to the rim here. Would have loved to have also gotten T. Bryant.
Cato: Dragic/Boucher for KP might have COST us a pick. Not the other way. Deal may have broken down because Dallas was only offering a second.
Summaries:
Guest: Summary is wait and see. They may not have been actively looking for second star with KP here. Now they have to be looking for that second star.
Guest 2: The Mav’s FO bet on themselves to be able to do more with smaller contracts to work with.
Cato: They are committed to roster change going forward.
Me: Guests were less enthralled with this. One watches a lot of Wiz games because he is on Fred Katz pod fairly often. Cato doesn’t seem as down. I don’t think he’s super positive on what we got (though he holds some hope for upside from what they’ve shown). The main reason is he doesn’t seem at all broken up by what we gave.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:58 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Dragic/Boucher for KP might have COST us a pick. Not the other way. Deal may have broken down because Dallas was only offering a second.
That makes much, much more sense to me.
Hopefully, this makes some people feel a little better about it.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Borkhan - 02-12-2022
instead of kp day to day we now got this (for todays game)
Spencer Dinwiddie, PG
Day-To-Day
Feb 11
Davis Bertans, SF
Day-To-Day
Feb 11
What a deal! I heard Darko Miličič is still alive and cheap, call him to round up this seasons roster....
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - dirkfansince1998 - 02-12-2022
Thanks for the notes @"DanSchwartzgan". The Mavs adding a first round pick makes sense and goes along with some of the stuff I heard on all kind of podcasts, sport talks in the last two days. Cannot remember who it was but the suggestion was that the Wizards were the only team that didn´t ask for a first.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 11:05 AM)Borkhan Wrote: What a deal! I heard Darko Miličič is still alive and cheap, call him to round up this seasons roster....
They just removed the closest thing to Darko Milicic that is currently in the league, imho. KP is Darko with more media savvy and a personality that makes people want to keep giving him chances.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - omahen - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 11:02 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Hopefully, this makes some people feel a little better about it.
No way
Reports were pretty clear it was Dragic and a pick from Toronto, so I stick with that. Better news is that the SRP to Washingotn is the 2022 one, which was more or less traded already. Dallas would keep it only, if it was 31-45 (which likely won't be)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 11:08 AM)omahen Wrote: No way
What reports, though? I just don't think that makes sense, and we haven't heard the full deal, have we?
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - dirkfansince1998 - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 11:05 AM)Borkhan Wrote: instead of kp day to day we now got this (for todays game)
Spencer Dinwiddie, PG
Day-To-Day
Feb 11
Davis Bertans, SF
Day-To-Day
Feb 11
What a deal! I heard Darko Miličič is still alive and cheap, call him to round up this seasons roster....
Have they even arrived in Dallas. As of now I still haven´t seen any confirmation on KP´s medical status. As long as that isn´t done the trade isn´t even through.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - omahen - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 11:10 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Have they even arrived in Dallas. As of now I still haven´t seen any confirmation on KP´s medical status. As long as that isn´t done the trade isn´t even through.
I think it is already official
(2) Marc Stein on Twitter: "The Wizards have officially announced the acquisition of Kristaps Porzingis from Dallas in a trade for Spencer Dinwiddie, Davis Bertans and a 2022 second-round pick. More NBA from me; https://t.co/LGN9cVpeGP" / Twitter
(02-12-2022, 11:09 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: What reports, though? I just don't think that makes sense, and we haven't heard the full deal, have we?
Bobby Marks, very credible. Someone posted a podcast yesterday - mentioned also in the piece below. It does say though, that Toronto moved out eventually, because they didn't want long term salary (that's why they took Young)
Raptors Could Have Had Kristaps Porzingis from Mavericks - Sports Illustrated Toronto Raptors News, Analysis and More
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Mavs2021 - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 11:02 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: That makes much, much more sense to me.
Hopefully, this makes some people feel a little better about it.
Cause somebody on a message board said/speculated on it?
The Raptors gave up a 1st for Young eventually. I´m pretty sure that scrambling overpay suggests that it is much more likely the reports of Marks/KOC are accurate that Ujiri was willing to do the same for Porzingis.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ThisIStheYear - 02-12-2022
This deal is basically a repeat of the Ralph Sampson for Joe Berry Carroll and Sleepy Floyd trade in the last 1980s. Ironically, Sampson is the player Zinger most reminds me of with his super tall, awkward, and injury prone body type. Like KP, some considered him a franchise type player, but he actually wasn’t that good, even in his short lived prime — he just looked like an all star to the uninitiated. He didn’t last long once the injuries started and neither will Zinger. Like Dallas, Houston got massacred for that trade, but in the end, none of the players, though all “names”, were particularly important in the NBA. For what it’s worth, Houston clearly “won” that trade, though winning just meant they ate a more edible end of a massive $hit sandwich. We’ll look back on this trade and two things will probably be true. Dallas will have won the trade, and none of the players will prove particularly valuable.
But hey, I’m still kind of excited to see the new guys, and I could be wrong about them. I’m pretty sure I’m not wrong about Zinger though. He’s got another 50-100 quality games left in that body, at most.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - dirkfansince1998 - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 11:20 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Cause somebody on a message board said/speculated on it?
The Raptors gave up a 1st for Young eventually. I´m pretty sure that scrambling overpay suggests that it is much more likely the reports of Marks/KOC are accurate that Ujiri was willing to do the same for Porzingis.
If you would at least read the posts before you start to complain you would know where this is coming from. Dan listened to Cato´s podcast.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - DanSchwartzgan - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 08:56 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Some have wondered how this gives us more flexibility long term
Teams trading a max player want 1) FRP’s and 2) cap/tax savings to rebuild with
For instance Dinwiddie and Bullock. After next year their deals are partially guaranteed.
SD: 18.857
RB: 10.489
14 of these million are non guaranteed if they’re waived. This means we could trade these contracts along with 3 FRP’s that would be available after next year. Get a max player making up to $36.7 million. That team would save $20 million against the cap. This is a valuable thing
I don't know if it is this exact construct, but I think something like this is the idea.
A few other thoughts:
* The TPE is good until 7/31, so we are able use it at the draft (June 23) and during free agency.
* Even if we clear up 23, I'm not sure we can do 25, 27 and 29 yet (too lazy to look). We can do 22/25/27 after the draft pick is made.
* Maxi is non-guaranteed if decision is made prior to 7/3/22. Powell is fully expiring for 23/24. Both might be better money savers than SD and RB.
* Green might be a casualty in this. I think he has late first round value. I love the way he defends and don't want to lose him.
* I don't think this is the plan, but BYC on Brunson on a deal starting in the $18mm-$20mm range can be overcome fairly easily.
* Because DFS is not signed, he can be traded in the new NBA year. Again, probably not the plan unless the player you are going after plays his position.
The more interesting question to me is what is our biggest need. It is easy to look at Powell/Maxi at C and point to that, but the position requires a certain amount of mobility. Big plodding shot blockers need not apply. As much as we love DFS, he's probably middle of the pack as a PF. Bullock is starting now and your deal just traded him away. So, is a returning wing what we need? Does Brunson as outgoing get you in the conversation for Lillard? Since Luka is basically position-less, you can deal for just about any position.