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+--- Thread: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS (/showthread.php?tid=1765)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Branduil - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 07:14 AM)fifteenth Wrote: I thought Deadspin used to do journalism of some sort. Maybe I'm not familiar with their work these days. This is just a fan post with opinion stacked upon opinion. Is this the same guy who did that ridiculous race piece?Deadspin is nothing more than a zombie site at this point, all of the original writers quit due to corporate interference. https://defector.com/ is the new site founded by the old Deadspin writers.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Chicagojk - 02-12-2022
Tim Cato had an article about the trade. He thinks Dinwiddie is a 15-20 minute per game player. Said he doesn't think he will be play a lot with Luka. If you can coach him into an incredibly direct bench scorer, this could work. But also mentioned if he is the player he has been for Washington, he could see him falling out of a playoff rotation mid series. Mentioned his trouble getting to the rim after his surgery.
Thinks Bertans is a 10-20 minute guy if effective as a stretch 4. If he isn't, he'll end up like Nicolo Melli did last season.
Not a negative article, talks about both sides of the trade.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - MAVS-SLO - 02-12-2022
(02-11-2022, 11:54 AM)Mikelo Wrote: Mavs-Slo (I don't get the option to quote you)... wow... you made me wake up, actually knowing that you're right, (don't remove a comma).. Gobert etc is a utopia, so what are the plans of the Mavs... there has to be one... I refuse to think that people who earn millions of dollars are so irresponsible
I think that the main problem for the Mavs is that they don't have a plan what to do. People who are responsible and are earning millions of dollars, just don't have emotions for the club/franchise, respect to the fans (like in europe) and the club is only ''their private toy'' to play with.
In my opinion we will sooner or later be in the another rebuild mode. It will just depend if we will be in the situation like Boston (happy with 1 playoff round) or we will go into full rebuild mode like Portland.
If we look at the roster in the last 3-4 seasons we can see that roster is been worse by each season. It's everything on the players and theirs indvidual improvment that results were better every season.
The only thing which can save this is situation is to be very lucky in the draft. FA dreams went and FO can't put a good trade.
The biggest problem with this trade is that the ''people who played with theirs toys'' they left a mess.
They are adding secondary ballhandling with Dinwiddie? Let's be real, we've been searching for secondary ballhandling mainly in positions 2-3 and loooking for a players like Kawhi, Paul George, Middleton...
Did FO think about how the players will accept their roles in the system? Will Dinwiddie be happy and accept to be just a back-up point guard to Luka and Brunson, while being the 2 most paid player in the team?
I'm not here for talking about Dragič, but in comparison with Dinwiddie, he is exactly this. Veteran back-up point guard and also expiring.
They added shooting with Bertans? Who is making 16 mil. per year to be bench player? Let's be real, they've been searching for shooting on position 2-3 after Hardaway injury and maybe looking for more consistent shooter like Tim.
Did FO think what will do with Bertans after Hardaway is back? He will also get his minutes at the 3 and DFS at the 4 so roster will look like:
Powell - Chriss - Boban
DFS - Kleber - Bertans
Bullock - Green
Brunson - Hardaway
Luka - Dinwiddie - Ntilkina - Burke
So with this trade they managed to get rid of any big man scoring and rim protection to get back:
1. A player who is making 16 milion per year to be end bench player and 3 option on his position?
2. A back up point guard who is making 18 per year and you don't know how will he even accept his bench role? While also having your all star player in the same position.
1. draft well could be 1 option to save this mess.
2. Is trade, but can someone please give a list of players on positions 5-4 who could potentially replace KP?
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Chicagojk - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 07:58 AM)MAVS-SLO Wrote: I think that the main problem for the Mavs is that they don't have a plan what to do. People who are responsible and are earning millions of dollars, just don't have emotions for the club/franchise, respect to the fans (like in europe) and the club is only ''their private toy'' to play with.
In my opinion we will sooner or later be in the another rebuild mode. It will just depend if we will be in the situation like Boston (happy with 1 playoff round) or we will go into full rebuild mode like Portland.
If we look at the roster in the last 3-4 seasons we can see that roster is been worse by each season. It's everything on the players and theirs indvidual improvment that results were better every season.
The only thing which can save this is situation is to be very lucky in the draft. FA dreams went and FO can't put a good trade.
The biggest problem with this trade is that the ''people who played with theirs toys'' they left a mess.
They are adding secondary ballhandling with Dinwiddie? Let's be real, we've been searching for secondary ballhandling mainly in positions 2-3 and loooking for a players like Kawhi, Paul George, Middleton...
Did FO think about how the players will accept their roles in the system? Will Dinwiddie be happy and accept to be just a back-up point guard to Luka and Brunson, while being the 2 most paid player in the team?
I'm not here for talking about Dragič, but in comparison with Dinwiddie, he is exactly this. Veteran back-up point guard and also expiring.
They added shooting with Bertans? Who is making 16 mil. per year to be bench player? Let's be real, they've been searching for shooting on position 2-3 after Hardaway injury and maybe looking for more consistent shooter like Tim.
Did FO think what will do with Bertans after Hardaway is back? He will also get his minutes at the 3 and DFS at the 4 so roster will look like:
Powell - Chriss - Boban
DFS - Kleber - Bertans
Bullock - Green
Brunson - Hardaway
Luka - Dinwiddie - Ntilkina - Burke
So with this trade they managed to get rid of any big man scoring and rim protection to get back:
1. A player who is making 16 milion per year to be end bench player and 3 option on his position?
2. A back up point guard who is making 18 per year and you don't know how will he even accept his bench role? While also having your all star player in the same position.
1. draft well could be 1 option to save this mess.
2. Is trade, but can someone please give a list of players on positions 5-4 who could potentially replace KP?
Looking forward, this team needs a PF and a C. Personally, I think the PF will be the hard one to find. I think that needs to be your 2nd or 3rd best player. That is who I would use my assets for. I think centers can be found. But Dallas needs to upgrade a center as well. I really like how Powell has been playing but looking into the future, having someone better than Powell would be great. Powell is fine backing up playing 20 plus minutes a night imo.
I am going to have an open mind on both new guys. In theory, this team could really use Dinwiddie's skill set. In reality, when I watch his highlights I see a guy who takes a lot of bad threes and looks like he is not quite as quick getting to the rim since injury. Can he get it back? I just have trouble seeing how he can rebuild his trade value to make him more attractive to teams. I can see it, but it is tricky. Don't even get me started on him being insurance in case Jalen leaves. Yuck.
I could see a role for Bertans here. And play that we think is pretty good. Although, I don't think he is ever going to be a plus tradeable asset on his current contract.
I just have a mess of thoughts right now. I am all over the place. May need to take a little break to gather my thoughts better.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - omahen - 02-12-2022
Interesting how every outside opinion that has something negative to say about the trade is dubbed as either parroting, irrelevant or in this latest case as not journalism or fan post.
Reality is, that vast majority of objective outsiders (speaking of analysts) think Mavs did terribly with this deal. This latest piece might have been a bit rough in their wrighting, but a lot of truth is stated. Not much can be said to defend the opposite opinion of what they are saying. Results of Mavs last three years, but probably ever since 2011 clearly show that Mavs are a mess.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Jason Terry - 02-12-2022
Some have wondered how this gives us more flexibility long term
Teams trading a max player want 1) FRP’s and 2) cap/tax savings to rebuild with
For instance Dinwiddie and Bullock. After next year their deals are partially guaranteed.
SD: 18.857
RB: 10.489
14 of these million are non guaranteed if they’re waived. This means we could trade these contracts along with 3 FRP’s that would be available after next year. Get a max player making up to $36.7 million. That team would save $20 million against the cap. This is a valuable thing
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Chicagojk - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 08:56 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Some have wondered how this gives us more flexibility long term
Teams trading a max player want 1) FRP’s and 2) cap/tax savings to rebuild with
For instance Dinwiddie and Bullock. After next year their deals are partially guaranteed.
SD: 18.857
RB: 10.489
14 of these million are non guaranteed if they’re waived. This means we could trade these contracts along with 3 FRP’s that would be available after next year. Get a max player making up to $36.7 million. That team would save $20 million against the cap. This is a valuable thing
I think that is clearly the plan, and not a bad one. A few things though:
1) it feels like we are treading water until we find that trade. To be in this stage with Luka at his level of play is just depressing. Maybe necessary though.
2) Does that above package get you a true star? Not sure. I guess when a star wants to force his way to a team, it can happen. Does that ever happen with the Mavs? Plus there are teams with full war chests that can put similar to much better offers on the table.
3) I just wish the two guys we picked up were more attractive assets. Maybe they will turn into those assets but as of now I have trouble seeing them being plus assets to either contenders or rebuilding teams. When we get closer to their end of their contracts, maybe their is valuation as expiring contracts.
4) as of now, this team is more than a #2 to Luka away from competing. If you give away most of your future assets, what is the avenue to get that #3. I think both are needed to compete against the top teams. Maybe not an all star but better than what we have. Fit is important too.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - omahen - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 09:16 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I think that is clearly the plan, and not a bad one. A few things though:
1) it feels like we are treading water until we find that trade. To be in this stage with Luka at his level of play is just depressing. Maybe necessary though.
2) Does that above package get you a true star? Not sure. I guess when a star wants to force his way to a team, it can happen. Does that ever happen with the Mavs? Plus there are teams with full war chests that can put similar to much better offers on the table.
3) I just wish the two guys we picked up were more attractive assets. Maybe they will turn into those assets but as of now I have trouble seeing them being plus assets to either contenders or rebuilding teams. When we get closer to their end of their contracts, maybe their is valuation as expiring contracts.
Exactly what I wanted to say.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 09:16 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I think that is clearly the plan, and not a bad one. A few things though:
1) it feels like we are treading water until we find that trade. To be in this stage with Luka at his level of play is just depressing. Maybe necessary though.
2) Does that above package get you a true star? Not sure. I guess when a star wants to force his way to a team, it can happen. Does that ever happen with the Mavs? Plus there are teams with full war chests that can put similar to much better offers on the table.
3) I just wish the two guys we picked up were more attractive assets. Maybe they will turn into those assets but as of now I have trouble seeing them being plus assets to either contenders or rebuilding teams. When we get closer to their end of their contracts, maybe their is valuation as expiring contracts.
Great, balanced take on this. I believe the emboldened point is what separates those who are angry from those who are more accepting. On the rest, I believe 90% of us agree, and we're all in some stage of depression over the situation, for sure.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Jason Terry - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 09:16 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I think that is clearly the plan, and not a bad one. A few things though:This is a good take ^
1) it feels like we are treading water until we find that trade. To be in this stage with Luka at his level of play is just depressing. Maybe necessary though.
2) Does that above package get you a true star? Not sure. I guess when a star wants to force his way to a team, it can happen. Does that ever happen with the Mavs? Plus there are teams with full war chests that can put similar to much better offers on the table.
3) I just wish the two guys we picked up were more attractive assets. Maybe they will turn into those assets but as of now I have trouble seeing them being plus assets to either contenders or rebuilding teams. When we get closer to their end of their contracts, maybe their is valuation as expiring contracts.
4) as of now, this team is more than a #2 to Luka away from competing. If you give away most of your future assets, what is the avenue to get that #3. I think both are needed to compete against the top teams. Maybe not an all star but better than what we have. Fit is important too.
1) Yes it’s depressing and necessary. It buys us some time(1.5 years) to truly find what Luka needs instead of adding another bad fit like KP
2) Luka convincing another star to force their way here seems like the best option at this time. He has some time now to do this without worrying about fitting with KP too(opens up options on players who would NOT fit with KP)
3) Most of the big trades that go down it’s more about contract size than that player being an actual asset. The real currency is picks, IMO
4) Valid concern. I don’t think it’s set in stone that you need 3 superstars to win a title. 2 may be enough with the right role players.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-12-2022
https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/status/1492517552135753731
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-12-2022
https://twitter.com/BibsCorner/status/1492518450996121600
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:15 AM)Kammrath Wrote: https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/status/1492517552135753731
I have a little bit of faith in this addition IF:
1) He plays the majority of his minutes while Luka rests. I like the idea of him trying to play Luka's role off the bench with the second unit much more than I like the idea of him playing off of Luka with his (lack of) shooting. This actually was a need, with Brunson starting now, imo.
2) Dinwiddie is excited about coming here to play that role.
I'm not overly thrilled about him as a match to play with either Brunson or Luka, and obviously that's going to be necessary.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - dirkfansince1998 - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 09:44 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Luka convincing another star to force their way here seems like the best option at this time. He has some time now to do this without worrying about fitting with KP too(opens up options on players who would NOT fit with KP)
I think this is the most underrated aspect when we talk about trades/free agency. The NBA is a players league. Stars team up. Demand trades. Demand certain teammates. Luka doesn´t have the highschool/college connection. Something that always hurt Dirk. But he seems to be more outgoing and connected. If a big name free agent wants to join the Mavs there is a way to make it happen.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - omahen - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:32 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I think this is the most underrated aspect when we talk about trades/free agency. The NBA is a players league. Stars team up. Demand trades. Demand certain teammates. Luka doesn´t have the highschool/college connection. Something that always hurt Dirk. But he seems to be more outgoing and connected. If a big name free agent wants to join the Mavs there is a way to make it happen.
I doubt Luka can bridge the gap. He wasn't schoolmate with anyone there, he is not hanging out with them in the national team,... Solution imho is to bring "the recruiter". Someone who is friends with stars. Someone, who can act as a middle man between Luka and "the star" and bring them together. Harrison and Kidd should play this role. His agent should play this role. Or sign a player who is good friends with a star.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:24 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I like the idea of him trying to play Luka's role off the bench with the second unit
This needs to be THE big role for him. Give him the keys to the team when Luka sits and let him go to town. See how it works.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - omahen - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:24 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: He plays the majority of his minutes while Luka rests.
This will be like 5 minutes in playoff
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:43 AM)omahen Wrote: This will be like 5 minutes in playoff
I agree, completely. That's the worry.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:43 AM)omahen Wrote: This will be like 5 minutes in playoff
Not if the Mavs want to win. Luka needs to find some key rest in the playoffs if he is to be fresh for the finish. He has not shown himself to be able to play 40+ mins of playoff intensity at a consistently high level.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - dirkfansince1998 - 02-12-2022
(02-12-2022, 10:43 AM)omahen Wrote: This will be like 5 minutes in playoff
Maybe the idea is to give Luka a real breather instead of the usual carry the team for three quarters and collapse in the last few minutes stuff that we saw in the last two years.
I take 32-34 minutes with effort and energy on both ends over 40+ minutes of coasting.