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+--- Thread: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS (/showthread.php?tid=1765)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Chicagojk - 02-11-2022
In a few minutes of watching highlights from his Nets time and Wizards time, it appears he has lost a step/half a step. Hopefully it is just coming back from injury but in the highlights he looks to have a little more trouble getting by his man.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Hypermav - 02-11-2022
Cuban comments here:
https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/mark-cuban-exclusive-dallas-mavs-trade-porzingis-dinwiddie-wizards-luka-doncic#gid=ci0299987f3001263c&pid=f1959d64-1d28-48fd-96f2-316bf17cf4e5
“We think Davis [Bertans] is going to surprise a lot of people,” Cuban tells us.
The ‘Latvian Laser,’ as some people call Bertans, is a 40 percent career three-point shooter, but has only shot 31.9 percent from beyond the arc this season (by far a career-low). However, the Mavs believe putting Bertans in the right spots on floor will make a big difference in his percentages going forward.
“We generate a lot of corner threes, and Davis should do really well as a result,” says Cuban.
“Even in a down year, he is shooting 57 percent from the corners and has shot more than 56 percent from the corners four of the past five years.”
Well, if you need a guy to stand in a corner, he might be it.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - HoosierDaddyKid - 02-11-2022
ESPN gave the Wizards an A- and Dallas a D on the trade.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 04:11 PM)Hypermav Wrote: Well, if you need a guy to stand in a corner, he might be it.
Lol, this might actually be part of it. No joke.
KP didn't like to do that, did he?
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 04:14 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: ESPN gave the Wizards an A- and Dallas a D on the trade.I agree with the Dallas grade, I don't think receiving KP (due to injury and possibly questionable fit on any team with another star) warrants more than a B rating. Ok, I give them a B+ cause they extracted a second round pick as well. WTF!
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - fifteenth - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 03:37 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I thought you were trying to make a point that it was a change in thinking, going from plan powder to working over the cap. I pointed out that was a temporary thing due to Cuban saying they will be out of LT after a year. If they are indeed going to continue working over the cap, that wasn't conveyed in that quote.
There's our disconnect! I wasn't even thinking about Cuban's quote. My point came from a different conversation. I generally pay much attention to what Cuban says. Although, I do like what he said as it might relate to keeping JB!
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 04:30 PM)fifteenth Wrote: There's our disconnect! I wasn't even thinking about Cuban's quote. My point came from a different conversation. I generally pay much attention to what Cuban says. Although, I do like what he said as it might relate to keeping JB!Not entirely his decision, and I think this trade makes the % chance he chooses us less than. I'm sure we're above 50% in this case, but it's way risky, especially considering the talk about the amount of work and court time it's gonna take to rehab his image/value around the league.
Add to that the thought that it takes Bertans 20 mins at least to become what he is and that's a lot less defense in a position that needs defense.
Other possible issue is are we overpaying him in order to keep him?
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - haveitall - 02-11-2022
In hindsight in 2018-19 Dallas won a few extra games tying with the Griz and Pelicans for worst record. If they only lost a few more games, taken Luka out, they could have easily ended up with Morant. The KP trade lost the 2020 pick which could have been Tyler Herro. Then the next year they drafted Green, could have instead drafted Bane or Bey. In free agency they could have signed Derozan or Randle or Jerami Grant, none of those guys were difficult to get. They could also have traded Brunson for something else and maybe some of these guards for someone like Sabonis. So in hindsight they could have had Morant, Doncic, Derozan, DFS, Sabonis , with Herro off the bench. Both KP trades, incoming and outgoing have been disasters.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - SkenfromLMF - 02-11-2022
My thought is that Dallas gave up the 2nd to guarantee the trade would not fail for physical...
Washington should get an A because they got out of more money and years owed than KP.
Dallas gets 2 shots at rehabbing a player, but the one I would be most positive about plays behind our 2 best players.
Ultimately, Dallas went from having hope they had a possible #2 or #3 rotation level player to need BOTH with this trade and adding a year to the anchor if that is NOT either
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - DallasMaverick - 02-11-2022
Anyone want to take a guess as to KP's next contract length / price?
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Jmaciscool - 02-11-2022
I've seen some thoughts about WAS not having leverage since they desperately wanted to get off of DB/SD and therefore the Mavs shouldn't have had to give a pick. I can understand that perspective.
But one thing I'm wondering about is whether or not Dallas was the only team trying to trade a big contract for those two contracts? For example, everyone knows LAL was trying to get rid of WB, so maybe they (or another team in a similar situation) was trying to do the same thing DAL did, so maybe there was actually competition for those players (as hard as that may be to believe) and that added to the cost?
Have no idea if that's the case or not obviously, just trying to think of different situations that might have come into play.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 05:14 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: I've seen some thoughts about WAS not having leverage since they desperately wanted to get off of DB/SD and therefore the Mavs shouldn't have had to give a pick. I can understand that perspective.So then take the Tor deal as worst case scenario in their mind...
But one thing I'm wondering about is whether or not Dallas was the only team trying to trade a big contract for those two contracts? For example, everyone knows LAL was trying to get rid of WB, so maybe they (or another team in a similar situation) was trying to do the same thing DAL did, so maybe there was actually competition for those players (as hard as that may be to believe) and that added to the cost?
Have no idea if that's the case or not obviously, just trying to think of different situations that might have come into play.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - cow - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 05:14 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: I've seen some thoughts about WAS not having leverage since they desperately wanted to get off of DB/SD and therefore the Mavs shouldn't have had to give a pick. I can understand that perspective.
But one thing I'm wondering about is whether or not Dallas was the only team trying to trade a big contract for those two contracts? For example, everyone knows LAL was trying to get rid of WB, so maybe they (or another team in a similar situation) was trying to do the same thing DAL did, so maybe there was actually competition for those players (as hard as that may be to believe) and that added to the cost?
Have no idea if that's the case or not obviously, just trying to think of different situations that might have come into play.
If you look at the Lakers, that loss to Portland without WB before the tradeline cemented their course of actions. Maybe they could convince themselves of addition by subtraction, but LeBron + AD and the rest of the team couldn't beat Portland's G-Leaguers. They probably would have needed to attach their 27 first to move off of WB at the TDL in order to return anything somewhat useful. They wisely just passed, knowing that pick had more future value and that there was no way to make this Lakers team a competitor. Maybe they can make WB's expiring useful in the offseason or during next TDL. It's a smart decision.
I also don't think they were competition to the Mavericks for that trade. They wouldn't take on the long term salary when WB expires next year.
Mark is just trying to have his cake and eat it too. We need to move on from KP. We need rotational pieces. So he talked himself and Nico into this bad trade.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 05:25 PM)cow Wrote: Mark is just trying to have his cake and eat it too. We need to move on from KP. We need rotational pieces. So he talked himself and Nico into this bad trade.
I don't think we know whether this was Cuban or Harrison, but I agree with this sentiment.
I do think this deal is the result of trying to merge both of those goals. And, I guess I can see how that would piss some people off, especially (but not limited to) those who weren't overly eager to send KP on his way in the first place.
I imagine that those people are feeling like
1) they didn't get "off of KP" far enough
AND
2) the rotation players they got aren't going to help
SO
3) WTF was the point?
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Winter - 02-11-2022
We don't really know what exactly was on the table in regard to a trade. We don't know if there was some particular hiccup in the Toronto offer - assuming there was a real offer.
We don't know what the Mavs medical team knows. We don't know if KP perhaps wanted a new venue. We don't know if Kidd was really invested in using KP within Kidd's system. We don't actually know anything about the Luca\KP relationship, and if it may have played a minor role.
Needless to say, we have Bertans and Dinwiddie and will get an opportunity to see if either might be a keeper. Fans will get to see if either player will have some value for the Mavericks shortly. If not, then we go to summer looking at free agents and trades again.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - cow - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 05:28 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don't think we know whether this was Cuban or Harrison, but I agree with this sentiment.
I do think this deal is the result of trying to merge both of those goals. And, I guess I can see how that would piss some people off, especially (but not limited to) those who weren't overly eager to send KP on his way in the first place.
I imagine that those people are feeling like
1) they didn't get "off of KP" far enough
AND
2) the rotation players they got aren't going to help
SO
3) WTF was the point?
The included pick is par for the course for Cuban. He barely values FRPs, much less SRPs.
I'm not sure everyone wanted to get off of KP. It was obvious to me but I'm wrong a lot. I'm sure there are mixed emotions there. And if you didn't want to get rid of KP, I'm sure the return he garnered is a very cold shower.
The rotation players, grossly overpaid as they are, will probably help. This team is thin, thin, thin. Players like Mellie helped last year when we traded for Reddick.
The thing I come back to is "what the hell is the plan?".
While I don't think it was smart, I don't blame the Mavs for the KP deal. A better front office doesn't do that but I think almost everyone was jazzed about getting KP (the price was insane though). I also don't really blame them for giving him a max contract, they were pot committed at that point. I also don't blame them for Luka and KP not fitting. The only thing I'd be critical of is how cautious they were with his injuries. He probably missed a dozen or so games that he wanted to play in. Would that have made a difference to the outcome? Doubtful.
After this offseason, we'll be committed to Luka, Jalen (hopefully), DFS, THJ and Bertans long term. You'll have Powell and Maxi expiring and Bullock and Dinwiddie as a rotational piece. Everything else is pretty meh unless Josh develops a jump shot in the summer. We will also have our draft pick. What are the odds that player is on our roster to start the season and what are the odds we make a good selection if he is? What's the upside of that roster? To me, it's the same place we've been in for the past two years. 5-8 seed and can make maybe make it to the second round. You don't have enough assets to make a trade until after that 2023 pick is conveyed. So we are probably in for two more season, spinning our tires in the same lane.
I think a lot of us have ideas how to fix things but the issue is core competencies of a front office. I posted this in another thread, but how would you grade the Mavs on the following:
-Drafting
-Asset Management
-Recruiting
-Trading
-Developing/Retention
To me, the only do the last thing well and are various degrees of bad at everything else. Nothing in the Nico era has shown to be any different than the previous regime. The second round pick added to this last trade gives me that impression and if we use our '22 pick to dump a contract, that will paint the rest of the picture.
If we do give Jalen a huge contract, it's going to be really interesting to see who's patience runs out first. Cuban paying the tax for current roster makeup or Luka's on a non-contending playoff squad.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Jym - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 05:28 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don't think we know whether this was Cuban or Harrison, but I agree with this sentiment.
I do think this deal is the result of trying to merge both of those goals. And, I guess I can see how that would piss some people off, especially (but not limited to) those who weren't overly eager to send KP on his way in the first place.
I imagine that those people are feeling like
1) they didn't get "off of KP" far enough
AND
2) the rotation players they got aren't going to help
SO
3) WTF was the point?
Pretty much
I don't feel like Dimwiddie or Bertans raise our ceiling at all. They could both have season injuries getting off the plane here from Washington and I don't think it would matter
With KP there was that ever so slight chance he could play like an all-star player for a few weeks in May and June and we could go for a nice run. Unlikely but you never know
Not that I was completely against dumping KP. I would have even included an asset like Green to dump him with little to no future money coming back over this current deal
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Borkhan - 02-11-2022
quote "The ‘Latvian Laser,’ as some people call Bertans", unquote
So, now we have got a new Latvian Laser /version 2.0/ and what else - a Californian cauliflower? Our future opponents are trembling in their pants.... from laughing.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 05:57 PM)Borkhan Wrote: quote "The ‘Latvian Laser,’ as some people call Bertans", unquoteJudging by the arch KP puts on his shot, that's more him than Bertans.
So, now we have got a new Latvian Laser /version 2.0/ and what else - a Californian cauliflower? Our future opponents are trembling in their pants.... from laughing.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS - Dirknows - 02-11-2022
(02-11-2022, 05:49 PM)cow Wrote: The included pick is par for the course for Cuban. He barely values FRPs, much less SRPs.
I'm not sure everyone wanted to get off of KP. It was obvious to me but I'm wrong a lot. I'm sure there are mixed emotions there. And if you didn't want to get rid of KP, I'm sure the return he garnered is a very cold shower.
The rotation players, grossly overpaid as they are, will probably help. This team is thin, thin, thin. Players like Mellie helped last year when we traded for Reddick.
The thing I come back to is "what the hell is the plan?".
While I don't think it was smart, I don't blame the Mavs for the KP deal. A better front office doesn't do that but I think almost everyone was jazzed about getting KP (the price was insane though). I also don't really blame them for giving him a max contract, they were pot committed at that point. I also don't blame them for Luka and KP not fitting. The only thing I'd be critical of is how cautious they were with his injuries. He probably missed a dozen or so games that he wanted to play in. Would that have made a difference to the outcome? Doubtful.
After this offseason, we'll be committed to Luka, Jalen (hopefully), DFS, THJ and Bertans long term. You'll have Powell and Maxi expiring and Bullock and Dinwiddie as a rotational piece. Everything else is pretty meh unless Josh develops a jump shot in the summer. We will also have our draft pick. What are the odds that player is on our roster to start the season and what are the odds we make a good selection if he is? What's the upside of that roster? To me, it's the same place we've been in for the past two years. 5-8 seed and can make maybe make it to the second round. You don't have enough assets to make a trade until after that 2023 pick is conveyed. So we are probably in for two more season, spinning our tires in the same lane.
I think a lot of us have ideas how to fix things but the issue is core competencies of a front office. I posted this in another thread, but how would you grade the Mavs on the following:
-Drafting
-Asset Management
-Recruiting
-Trading
-Developing/Retention
To me, the only do the last thing well and are various degrees of bad at everything else. Nothing in the Nico era has shown to be any different than the previous regime. The second round pick added to this last trade gives me that impression and if we use our '22 pick to dump a contract, that will paint the rest of the picture.
If we do give Jalen a huge contract, it's going to be really interesting to see who's patience runs out first. Cuban paying the tax for current roster makeup or Luka's on a non-contending playoff squad.
We might as well start giving our ideas on Luka trade proposals in about 2-3 years with how this team is built. The Grizzlies and Hawks (I know they aren’t great this year but made ECF last year) both managed to surround their stars with solid role players. Luka has…Brunson as the only reliable scorer on his team.