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+--- Thread: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS (/showthread.php?tid=1765)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-10-2022
https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1491966855539531779
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-10-2022
CUBAN:
Quote:“Sometimes it’s the system that matters, and in order for the system to work, you’ve got to have people that fit different roles within a system,” Cuban said. “KP was great within certain roles, right? And he did a lot of amazing things with us, but there were certain things that we didn’t have with Timmy out, so we were able to do two for one in that respect.”
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - cow - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 09:49 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: If we can trust Cuban that tells us a lot about the way they viewed him and his role. He wasn´t the 2nd or 3rd option. He was just one of many guys next to Luka. Replaced by two guys that might be a better fit.
I don't think you can trust Cuban but if KP was just another guy, they wouldn't have been so "cautious".
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - mvossman - 02-10-2022
Man, I am really surprised we have so many folks making excuses for this trade.
Folks have been frustrated with THJ because all he does is shoot and his defense does not fit this team. Bertrans is actually significantly worse defensively than THJ. He has to be on fire from 3 to make up for that. He has literally been worse than a replacement player (read G league) while on the court this year. There was a suggestion that we added two playoff rotation players in the trade. We are going to want no part of him being in the playoff rotation.
Dinwiddie fills the role that we wanted Dragic to fill, a 15 minute backup point guard. That means no Dragic. That also means unhappy Dinwiddie, who apparently alienated his teammates on the Wiz. He is going to expect to be in the starting lineup. I don't see how this ends well.
If I had to guess where this is headed in the offseason based on the wonderful moves made recently, we will send out our 22 first to dump Bertrans (who will likely show himself to be by unplayable in Kidd's defensive scheme and makes no sense with THJ), let Brunson walk as we now have his replacement (Dinwiddie) and stay under they tax. The net is that we will have lost KP + Brunson + First for Dinwiddie, a player we all thought we could get for THJ a few hours ago.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - dirkfansince1998 - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 09:54 PM)mvossman Wrote: If I had to guess where this is headed in the offseason based on the wonderful moves made recently, we will send out our 22 first to dump Bertrans (who will likely show himself to be by unplayable in Kidd's defensive scheme and makes no sense with THJ), let Brunson walk as we now have his replacement (Dinwiddie) and stay under they tax.
Take a look at the quote above. Seems like Cuban is willing to pay the tax.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - mvossman - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 09:49 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: If we can trust Cuban that tells us a lot about the way they viewed him and his role. He wasn´t the 2nd or 3rd option. He was just one of many guys next to Luka. Replaced by two guys that might be a better fit.
In my mind, this is complete F in player evaluation.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - mvossman - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 09:57 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Take a look at the quote above. Seems like Cuban is willing to pay the tax.
I will believe it when I see it. I don't see how it makes any sense to have both Bertrans and THJ, neither of which fit this team and I am guessing Dinwiddie is going to make it more likely Brunson will bail. If we did not want to rock the boat, adding him to the mix was not a good idea. Nothing like having Cuban's buddy getting preferential treatment to chase away other players.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - SatnamSingh - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 07:30 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: Luka went to the decision makers and said get this scrub KP the scarecrow off this team now and this is how much the league values KP. Does anything else even matter?
After sitting here for 3-4 hours and watching Luka play tonight, this has to be it. He wanted KP out.
Maybe even KP wanted out
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - SatnamSingh - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 08:44 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not really. I just know that my expectations aren´t directly related to some kind of fantasy trades that I am coming up with. I am still waiting for the report from Jake Fisher. He mentioned that the Mavs had other offers. Would love to see them. Probably end up prefering an offer the Mavs did not take. Just feels like a waste of energy to rant about it without even knowing the options.
oh god i should just avoid basketball news for the next few days in case that happens
edit: those comments from Cuban are predictable. He was gonna sell Dinwiddie and Bertans as players that can help us win. Wouldnt be shocked if he turned down a better trade with lesser "talent."
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Jason Terry - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 10:08 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: After sitting here for 3-4 hours and watching Luka play tonight, this has to be it. He wanted KP out.And we’ve known this since the Jake Fischer report came out over a year ago. We should of known it was all true once none of the major mavs propaganda outlets mentioned it at all. It’s a great reminder to not be leave the lies out there fed to the masses
Maybe even KP wanted out
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 08:44 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not really. I just know that my expectations aren´t directly related to some kind of fantasy trades that I am coming up with. I am still waiting for the report from Jake Fisher. He mentioned that the Mavs had other offers. Would love to see them. Probably end up prefering an offer the Mavs did not take. Just feels like a waste of energy to rant about it without even knowing the options.Been reading for the last hour and THIS is the take I wanted to see. Yes, let’s see what the other offers were. Dinwiddie and Bertans will prove to be just as hard to move off of as KP is. If it was gonna take a first to salary dump KP, it will take a first (or the equivalent in player value) to dump each of these two.
Last 3 years games played (to date this year being the 3rd “year”):
KP - 57+43+34=134
SD - 64+3+44=111
DB - 54+57+34=145
Can we stop pretending KP is the only player with injury problems in this trade?
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-10-2022
Here is Bertans's RAPTOR chart for his first five seasons (not enough data to qualify this season).
He has been a positive on O and D in three of the seasons. He has been a positive on O and a negative on D in two seasons. Even his negative on D seasons have been relatively middle of the pack though.
![[Image: Screenshot-2022-02-10-9.35.50-PM.png]](http://stlukeskck.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Screenshot-2022-02-10-9.35.50-PM.png)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-10-2022
Here is Dinwiddie's RAPTOR chart for five of the last six seasons (last year there was not enough data).
He has been a positive on O in all five seasons. In 2019-20 he had the most negative D, in the other four a slight negative.
![[Image: Screenshot-2022-02-10-9.36.35-PM.png]](http://stlukeskck.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Screenshot-2022-02-10-9.36.35-PM.png)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-10-2022
https://twitter.com/isaaclharris/status/1491976904450232323?s=21
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - F Gump - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 10:36 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Last 3 years games played (to date this year being the 3rd “year”):
KP - 57+43+34=134
SD - 64+3+44=111
DB - 54+57+34=145
I have seen what it looks like, when hoping for KP to turn the corner on becoming the player I wish we had landed from NY. It was a long tease, a step forward and a step back. Having 32M of the cap invested in that tease wore out it's welcome. Never knowing if your supposed #2 would be there, when you need him, that got old also.
I don't know if Dinwiddie or Bertans will be any better at fulfilling their upside we can envision. But I am ready to move on from KP the myth, and see. If they do, sweet. If they don't, they don't, but I'm hoping for better results this time than the last.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-10-2022
Here are KP's last five seasons for comparison:
![[Image: Screenshot-2022-02-10-9.54.23-PM.png]](http://stlukeskck.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Screenshot-2022-02-10-9.54.23-PM.png)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - ItsGoTime - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 10:45 PM)F Gump Wrote: I have seen what it looks like, when hoping for KP to turn the corner on becoming the player I wish we had landed from NY. It was a long tease, a step forward and a step back. Having 32M of the cap invested in that tease wore out it's welcome. Never knowing if your supposed #2 would be there, when you need him, that got old also.SD has started most of those games the last 3 years. Presumably he will not here (and if he does…I am more irritated than I am now). What happens to a guy who is a lockerroom cancer on his current team as a starter and then goes to another team to come off the bench? Maybe nothing, but the better bet is on him being a cancer again.
I don't know if Dinwiddie or Bertans will be any better at fulfilling their upside we can envision. But I am ready to move on from KP the myth, and see. If they do, sweet. If they don't, they don't, but I'm hoping for better results this time than the last.
We’re banking on Bertans regaining his sharpshooting touch. What we hope for him or not. At the time of the trade through 34 games (not exactly a small sample size) he was bad. Can’t assess value on hope and be a good FO.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - F Gump - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 09:49 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: If we can trust Cuban that tells us a lot about the way they viewed him and his role. He wasn't the 2nd or 3rd option. He was just one of many guys next to Luka. Replaced by two guys that might be a better fit.
MC's comments are quite revelatory - but not in the way he would like them to be.
I don't take at face value anything MC said. There is always a layer of fact, but it's going to be lathered with all the PR he can spin.
He's talking up KP big-time, but I would bet all of that is tied to the fact that the Wiz haven't cleared KP through the physical. It would be easy for Was to say KP flunked it, if they want to, for any reason (or no reason at all), because it's a completely arbitrary standard of whether KP's health is "what we expected."
That MC is talking up KP so much at this point should tell us that the Mavs are still scared to death the trade won't go through, and were incredibly desperate to trade him. Not the opposite.
That should tell us some things we probably didn't realize about KP's anticipated health, as well as how much the Mavs wanted/needed him on this roster.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Dirknows - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 10:36 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Been reading for the last hour and THIS is the take I wanted to see. Yes, let’s see what the other offers were. Dinwiddie and Bertans will prove to be just as hard to move off of as KP is. If it was gonna take a first to salary dump KP, it will take a first (or the equivalent in player value) to dump each of these two.
Last 3 years games played (to date this year being the 3rd “year”):
KP - 57+43+34=134
SD - 64+3+44=111
DB - 54+57+34=145
Can we stop pretending KP is the only player with injury problems in this trade?
I don’t even want to know what the other offers were. Cubans dumbass probably turned down a young player and/or a FRP in a deal with a team.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - cow - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 11:04 PM)Dirknows Wrote: I don’t even want to know what the other offers were. Cubans dumbass probably turned down a young player and/or a FRP in a deal with a team.
Doubt it. There probably were no other offers considering we swapped two of the worst contracts in the league and had to tip the Wizards to do so.