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+--- Thread: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS (/showthread.php?tid=1765)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - SatnamSingh - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yes!
The shit sandwich was going to get eaten, from the second he signed that extension. Waiting it out until he expired with Luka on the roster was always the dumbest possible solution. They finally realized that, and now the team can move forward.
They didnt move forward though. Now they have 2 shit sandwiches instead of 1.
(I do understand your point that moving two smaller shit sandwiches might be easier. I mean there has to be some reason for the Mavs to do the trade, even if we think their valuations are way off).
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:11 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: They were more desperate than us to make a big player deal.
If that's true, then they failed pretty badly.
Because KP isn't a big player. At all. He's not going to help them at all. I think they're about to be stuck with him for a while, and that Dallas will be able to move these two new guys, if they want. I also think there's a decent chance that Dallas gets more out of the new guys on the court in the meantime than WAS gets out of KP (a good chance, even).
I hate that you guys are making me defend this deal, because I'm NOT thrilled about it at all. But, like @"Winter" said, the mistake was made way back when they offered someone a max extension without even seeing him play with their team once.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Dirknows - 02-10-2022
The issue with this trade is there seems to be no plan to build around Luka because they are still sunk into THJ, and now Bertans and Dinwiddie contracts. If they had traded KP for one or two expiring and a decent player I would have been way cooler with that. But they have guys who are significantly worse than KP and on longer contracts. Luka is going to ask to be traded in a few years if they don’t figure out a plan to give him an actual team.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - VintagePejav2 - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:47 PM)cow Wrote: There is? If his shooting numbers remain flat, I'm pretty sure I could give you what he gives you night in and night out.
He’s 40% from 3 for his career. His attempts are way down from the last couple of seasons. He’ll take all of the open shots that Maxi (and others) hesitate on.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:47 PM)cow Wrote: There is? If his shooting numbers remain flat, I'm pretty sure I could give you what he gives you night in and night out.
It does all revolve around his shooting which makes him a big plus on O....but he hasn't been a negative in On/Off D either.
Shooting is gold in the NBA. This is a guy who has shot over 40% on catch and shoot threes in 5 of his first 6 seasons. When the shot comes he will earn his contract.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:47 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: They didnt move forward though. Now they have 2 shit sandwiches instead of 1.
Disagree hard, but time will tell.
I think there is value in simply removing Porzingis from this equation. I think he has been a huge drain on this thing for two years, and even moving sideways to get out from under him could potentially expedite the healing.
The smaller shit sandwiches might just be easier to fix/move/use than you think.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - SatnamSingh - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:50 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: He’s 40% from 3 for his career. His attempts are way down from the last couple of seasons. He’ll take all of the open shots that Maxi (and others) hesitate on.
They also got two of the worst defenders in the NBA when your head coach is trying to change the culture to a defense first team.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - MaxiThreeba - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:44 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I don't think this will be proven to be true. There is too much of a history of him being an incredibly valuable player. I think as this plays out we will see his value.
I hope you're right. As a shooter he has value. As far as everything else goes on a basketball court...he is garbage. And his contract is disgusting.
If the Mavs had control of their draft picks and had a player like Bane, Maxey or Bey on their roster, then Bertans contract has value. Bad contracts don't work for matching purposes when you don't have anything to stack on top of them.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - TXBamanut - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:52 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: They also got two of the worst defenders in the NBA when your head coach is trying to change the culture to a defense first team.
BOOM! THANK YOU. That's what I've been saying.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Mavs2021 - 02-10-2022
Here are our salaries for the 2022/2023 season
Doncic 36
Brunson 19 (staying positive here)
THJ 19
Dinwiddie 18
Bertans 16
DFS 11
Powell 11
Bullock 10
Kleber 9
Boban 3.5
Burke 3.3
Unbelievable. We have assembled a $140M pay-roll with one All-Star and two good players under 28.
The worst part is I´d say they better nail that mid 1st round draft pick, but I´m pretty confident Cuban will just move the 1st round pick to avoid paying the luxury tax.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - MFFL - 02-10-2022
At least this trade proves one thing - Nico is in charge of the Mavericks. There is NO WAY that Cuban's ego could EVER admit that he lost the trade with the Knicks. If Cuban was in charge, there isn't a possibility that KP would have been moved.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - cow - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:50 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: He’s 40% from 3 for his career. His attempts are way down from the last couple of seasons. He’ll take all of the open shots that Maxi (and others) hesitate on.
Even if he regains his shooting form, he gives you nothing else. No defense and 3 rebounds a game. All for the paltry sum of $16-17-16m over the next three years. His contract was atrocious when he was an elite shooter. Now we are a hope and a prayer away from that. He's going to be expensive to move.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Omega_Supreme - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:49 PM)Dirknows Wrote: The issue with this trade is there seems to be no plan to build around Luka because they are still sunk into THJ, and now Bertans and Dinwiddie contracts. If they had traded KP for one or two expiring and a decent player I would have been way cooler with that. But they have guys who are significantly worse than KP and on longer contracts. Luka is going to ask to be traded in a few years if they don’t figure out a plan to give him an actual team.
Dinwiddie and Bertans are better fits next to Luka. A stretch 4 that can play 5 in some cases and a combo guard that can create and give Luka a breather. Dinwiddie plays a lot like Luka actually in the sense that he is a downhill guy that can get to the basket.
That skillset was needed as we have to many guys that just catch and shoot.
Both players fit major needs and we got rid of cancer in KP who was wearing this team down with his injury situation.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Kammrath - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:52 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: They also got two of the worst defenders in the NBA
I do not think this is the case. Not saying either of them is a GOOD defender. But two of the worst? Don't agree.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Winter - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:38 PM)haveitall Wrote: Am I the only that sees zero value in Dinwiddie and Bertans? Maybe as 14th 15th players in a rotation. Forget the huge contracts, they are just not good players in a 9 man rotation.
They will likely be better players than Frankie Smokes, Theo Pinson, Moses Brown and Green. That's not much of a stretch.
Yes, we all wish they were better players. Both Bertans and Dinwiddie will come off the bench. KP was never going to come off the bench. He was forever going to be the poster boy for the broken superstar.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:47 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: (I do understand your point that moving two smaller shit sandwiches might be easier. I mean there has to be some reason for the Mavs to do the trade, even if we think their valuations are way off).
So, if we can agree on that much (kind of) then maybe we can agree that now it might be easier to move forward.
I never said they HAD moved forward. I said they could, now.
I said somewhere back in this thread or another that I think they are literally exactly as prepared for this year's playoffs as they were yesterday. No more, no less.
KP wasn't going to be healthy. IMHO, he wouldn't have been effective, even if he was healthy.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Omega_Supreme - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:54 PM)Winter Wrote: They will likely be better players than Frankie Smokes, Theo Pinson, Moses Brown and Green. That's not much of a stretch.
Yes, we all wish they were better players. Both Bertans and Dinwiddie will come off the bench. KP was never going to come off the bench. He was forever going to be the poster boy for the broken superstar.
Yeah and force feeding him the ball and watching Luka stand around and watch really pissed me off at times. I was thinking this shit is not going to work against a team like Philly or the Lakers who can push him off the block.
KP was holding this team back and Luka's stats have gone through the roof since KP's absence and we are better because of it.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Fuerza1 - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:45 PM)haveitall Wrote: They both suck. KP was our second leading scorer, and a defensive anchor. Oft injured? Yes. But I'd rather take half a season of KP than a full perfectly healthy season of Bertans/Diinwiddie.
The Mavs defense has remained elite even with KP out. KP was no defensive anchor, and an injury away from being the death star of NBA contracts.
Jalen Brunson is averaging 18 ppg, 6 apg, 4 rpg since becoming a full-time starter on 50 FG% + 38 3PT% + 84 FT% shooting. That is a 30 game sample size, and more to come. KP's "offense" will not be missed.
Dinwiddie/Bertans should contribute enough to overcompensate offensively; thinking about 10-12 ppg for Dinwiddie, 8-10 for Bertans.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:54 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: It's crazy to me that people are so happy about moving on from the KP saga that they're not looking at the return.
Ask any non Mavs fan. Bertans and Dinwiddie are a bigger drain on their team in the year 2022 than KP is.
I don't doubt that WAS fans would say that.
They don't really have a team to drain, however.
You might be right - we'll see. I just don't think there was a way to move forward with KP on the roster. That's the bottom line for me. In the likely event that everyone hates these guys (I probably will) they'll get moved, somehow.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Mavs2021 - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:49 PM)Dirknows Wrote: The issue with this trade is there seems to be no plan to build around Luka because they are still sunk into THJ, and now Bertans and Dinwiddie contracts. If they had traded KP for one or two expiring and a decent player I would have been way cooler with that. But they have guys who are significantly worse than KP and on longer contracts. Luka is going to ask to be traded in a few years if they don’t figure out a plan to give him an actual team.
Exactly. There is still no plan. The team got older. The cap and asset structure got worse. The team is still nowhere near a legit contender status. So why the rush to move Porzingis, when it does not get you any closer to winning a championship?
Too many of our fans act like Sacramento Kings fans. Ah I just want to win a play-off series. Haven´t done that in a decade. That´s a success. I want to win three championships and I bet so does Luka, cause that´s what he deserves. That´s what Dirk deserved.