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+--- Thread: TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS (/showthread.php?tid=1765)
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - fifteenth - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:36 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Wizards fans unanimously are celebrating their GM as the GOAT for getting rid of Bertans/Dinwiddie without giving up a pick.
Further evidence that this might end up well for the Mavs! Never trust the fan mob!
Hey Wiz, good luck with all that. Enjoy your KP era.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - SatnamSingh - 02-10-2022
I dont think we disagree it'll be easier to trade one $18 million contract vs one $35 million contract.
We disagree the Mavs should have had to take on BOTH of those bums or that they should've got a 1st rd pick to do so. The fact that we had to give up additional compensation is ludicrous.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - cow - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:53 PM)fifteenth Wrote: Hey Wiz, good luck with all that. Enjoy your KP era.
Hey Mavs, good luck with the Bertans/Dinwiddie era. Our era is shorter.
Love
Da Wiz
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:48 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: The fact that I'm honestly considering the two choices is enough to sow doubt that they POSSIBLY didn't choose a more favorable deal on the table.
What two choices, to be clear...taking this deal or NOT trading KP?
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Tyler - 02-10-2022
Just something to balance the negativity.
https://twitter.com/cjzero/status/1491860434449682440
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Jmaciscool - 02-10-2022
KP was a max contract with a frightful injury history (and currently injured) whose team seemed to play just a well/better with him not on the court. Based on that it's hard to imagine getting any kind of positive asset for him.
Whether trading him for the WAS duo was the right move or not is debatable, but I think it's unrealistic to imagine that there was some way to extract value from other teams just for KP. If the Mavs wanted to move on from KP (and they clearly did) then this is the kind of trade that happens unless the Mavs wanted to add better players or better picks.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - fifteenth - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:43 PM)DrMav Wrote: In my fictional multiverse for this, the Mavs should have gotten a pick 950/1000 times, come out neutral 49/1000 times, and give up a pick 1/1000. Even if goal #2 of the season after winning a championship was getting rid of KP, this part of the deal remains ridiculous to me.
One of the things that makes it hard for fans to evaluate these things is that all our opinions are based on a fictional multiverse populated by our mostly non-expert opinions. KP should have fetched more because all the fans think KP should have fetched more. The good thing is that we'll get to watch how reality plays out, and then maybe, we'll remember to compare reality to our past fictional multiverse.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - SatnamSingh - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:49 PM)fifteenth Wrote: If that's your position I take no issue with it. I'm not confident in my ability to know whether the Mavs should have been able to extract a first. But where I disagree is that I'm glad they didn't keep KP rather than take the available trade. Getting a first would have been better, but imo, moving KP is better than keeping him until the summer.
serious question: have you watched Dinwiddie or Bertans play a single game this year?
You seem to be stuck on KP being undesirable without realizing we are getting two guys who are MORE undesirable in NBA circles. Google any basketball podcast over the last six months. Bertans is top 5 on every worst contracts list.
They are doing cartwheels in Washington right now and that's with low expectations for KP.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - hakeemfaan - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Not quite following, sorry.
Is this an overt insult of my intelligence, or are you trying to add nuance to my point?
No judgement on either, I just want to know if it's worth engaging further.
KL by the same token when you start off your post with the words “Apply Logic” aren’t you also taking a shot at the intelligence of others who disagree with trade?
No one is saying KP was a keeper. The issue is asset management and for a team that has very few avenues to put some legit talent around Luka, you might have got some better fits but these guys are nothing special, on longer deals, and you didn’t get a pick back that you should have. Those asset mgmt decisions always hurt you long term.
You always have to factor risk reward in a trade. I don’t see the reward of this trade being anything special to not take the risk of us not being able to move KP at a later point. If they had got a FRP it would still not be a great trade but this right now to not even get that is ridiculous.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - SatnamSingh - 02-10-2022
Here is Bill Simmons worst contracts in the league.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/rrery8/bill_simmonss_2021_most_regrettable_nba_contracts/
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - hakeemfaan - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:55 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: KP was a max contract with a frightful injury history (and currently injured) whose team seemed to play just a well/better with him not on the court. Based on that it's hard to imagine getting any kind of positive asset for him.
Whether trading him for the WAS duo was the right move or not is debatable, but I think it's unrealistic to imagine that there was some way to extract value from other teams just for KP. If the Mavs wanted to move on from KP (and they clearly did) then this is the kind of trade that happens unless the Mavs wanted to add better players or better picks.
If this is truly the best they could do you punt it to the off season then. What is the risk? That you will never get players of even the caliber of Dimwiddie and Bertans if you wait more? That’s fine. I will live with that risk.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - sliver91 - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:52 PM)cow Wrote: Ujiri probably asked for a FRP.
This!
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:58 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: KL by the same token when you start off your post with the words “Apply Logic” aren’t you also taking a shot at the intelligence others who disagree with trade?
Yikes! Two points here:
1) @"SleepingHero", I did NOT mean that sentence that way, but if it came across that way to you, I'm VERY sorry! Truly.
2) My question to @"Mavs2021" wasn't an attempt to clap back or show distaste. I literally do not care what he thinks of my intelligence. I just wanted to understand his meaning so I could process his point and move forward in the conversation, that's all. No hard feelings on my part, even if he had meant to insult me. I can take it!
I think @"SatnamSingh"'s explanation of his meaning was helpful and probably accurate, thanks!
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Dirknows - 02-10-2022
So who is going to guard the rim? KP when on the court was a very good player, this “bone bruise” seemed like a reason to keep him healthy to dump him. But to dump him for 2 players who straight up suck this year is ridiculous. If I have to read in the next few days about them being offered a better package I’m going to be pissed. Really though, why did Dallas have to include the 2nd round pick? Cuban literally doesn’t give a shit about the draft and it’s getting old. Maybe this was the best package they could truly get? I still think I would have taken the risk that KP plays well the rest of the season and the playoffs no move him in the summer. He raises the teams ceiling significantly in the playoffs.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - burekemde - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:55 PM)Tyler Wrote: Just something to balance the negativity.
https://twitter.com/cjzero/status/1491860434449682440
The more I think of this trade, the better I like it.
The team badly needed a proven, consistent back-up PG to run the show when Luka is out. That's Dinwiddie.
The team needed a great outside shooter next to Luka. Nevermind the defense. THJ was not that this season, being bad shooting and as defender. Finally, he got injuried. Enter Bertrans that cant play D, but shoots lights out.
It improves us this season. Since KP is not playing, and Dinwiddie will get plenty of his minutes as a backup, and Bertrans will as well, there are many positives written about this trade.
The worst thing about the deal, is that we lost a lot of rim protection. At least when KP can play.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Mavs2021 - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:53 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: I dont think we disagree it'll be easier to trade one $18 million contract vs one $35 million contract.
We disagree the Mavs should have had to take on BOTH of those bums or that they should've got a 1st rd pick to do so. The fact that we had to give up additional compensation is ludicrous.
I still can´t figure out why it should be easier to trade Bertans and Dinwiddie. We are talking about contracts that are as long or even longer than KP´s contract. At 16-20M per year are also not chump change and the players are objectively worse.
Either you give me an incentive to take these deals on (i.e. more 1st round picks) or I simply look for alternatives on the market. Alternatives that are cheaper, did not have two torn ACLs like Bertans or one like Dinwiddie.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - KillerLeft - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:58 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: Those asset mgmt decisions always hurt you long term.
What I'm suggesting is that there wasn't a "decision" to made here, other than simply not trading KP.
I think it was this deal or keep him, and I don't believe they thought keeping him was better than this deal. My point was to address this idea that there were better deals out there. I don't believe there were.
I don't believe Toronto offered Dragic+filler+1st, for example. I think that's imaginary.
YOU would've kept him. That's clear. I get it.
They weren't going to do that, obviously.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - Winter - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:57 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: serious question: have you watched Dinwiddie or Bertans play a single game this year?
You seem to be stuck on KP being undesirable without realizing we are getting two guys who are MORE undesirable in NBA circles. Google any basketball podcast over the last six months. Bertans is top 5 on every worst contracts list.
This is really not the question though.
Tyler had it right in his assessment. We have evidence that having KP simply does not make the Mavericks a better team. It's a marginal upgrade even if he plays.
We may trash this trade if Bertans and Dinwiddie are as bad as last year, but this team is likely better and deeper now than they were yesterday and if they play regularly. What's the use of having a player who is constantly injured? If he doesn't play, it doesn't matter what his contract value is. The team doesn't benefit.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - SleepingHero - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:54 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: What two choices, to be clear...taking this deal or NOT trading KP?
Honestly if this was the best deal they could've gotten then you just have to wait. It seems like the Mavs tried doing this last season too and decided to wait too.
On the one hand I 100% agree with you. The Mavs got off of a bad contract in KP. They ripped the band-aid off and have removed the obstacle that has plagued this team in building around Luka (whether it be fit or money) for the last 2 years.
On the other hand they replaced that obstacle with 2 smaller but equally unpalatable obstacles and got nothing in return to make it easier to swallow.
I would 1000% be behind the trade if the Mavs just got 1 additional asset. Just 1 thing. A 1st, a 2nd, a prospect. I don't care. Anything. But they didn't and instead gave stuff up. Thats my issue.
I find it hard to believe that this was the best possible deal out there. If the Wizards could've gotten a 2nd for Harrell from CHA, then I'm sure the Mavs could've dumped Porzingis to Charlotte for a similar return.
RE: TRADE: Dinwiddie+Bertans to DAL | KP+2nd to WAS - SatnamSingh - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 04:46 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: I think they picked this deal because they think Dinwiddie and Bertans can help them win now.
I think they're complete idiots that didn't pick the "better deal" because they didnt want to come away "empty handed" for KP. They can sell this as two rotation players in exchange for KP.
In addition to this, it really disgusts me that there's at least some chance (however small) that Cuban wanted a player to hang out with.