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+--- Thread: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment (/showthread.php?tid=4138)
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - Smitty - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 02:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: But the problem is that you're entering into it with the idea that it has to be a forward, kind of (at least that's what I'm getting from your sig). For me, that's the very last place I'd start.
The "list" should include PG's, wings and even centers. Or, dumps into TPE's that net draft picks.
I want the "actual" player (if that's what it must be to satisfy your requirement) to be pretty significantly different than PJW in several ways, and frankly, I think it would be pretty easy to accomplish, especially because I don't think PJW, himself, has to be the means of acquiring said player. He's just a way suddenly available to improve the team in one of several ways.
No. It doesn't have to be a forward. I talk about this exact thing in post #106. I've provided this exact thing in bold. I've done PJW comparisons with actual names, stats, salary. I'm trying to find actual players and asking for something other than just describing a unicorn.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - mvossman - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 01:38 PM)Smitty Wrote: Because he wasn't listed as a SF/PF when sorted. I did overlook Cam Johnson though.
That's strange. I think he plays SF more than anything else.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - KillerLeft - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 02:08 PM)Smitty Wrote: No. It doesn't have to be a forward. I talk about this exact thing in post #106. I've provided this exact thing in bold. I've done PJW comparisons with actual names, stats, salary. I'm trying to find actual players and asking for something other than just describing a unicorn.
Well, some of the descriptors in your sig seem to scream forward to me, and even if you don't agree with that, they aren't on my list of needs, personally.
But, deciding PJW/Flagg is less than an ideal fit does NOT require a specific person to replace him. It just doesn't.
I think (personally, could be wrong) that it would be better to get anything of value for PJW now, before his deal inevitably (imo) starts to look worse and worse as a result of what I perceive to be his poor fit with Flagg. I might not feel this way if I thought the team was likely to be competitive in the very near future, but I don't. To be clear, I think changing out some of the ill-fitting parts for-better fitting ones is the ONLY chance of being good, but not guaranteed to make the team better at all, so because I have reached THAT conclusion, I'm no longer looking at it in terms of making the team immediately better or worse, just in terms of remaking the team around Flagg. That's my only guiding star, and I'm resigned to the idea that it will take as long as it takes. In other words, I'd be fine with "losing" a PJW trade, as long as it gains traction on the "pile of assets" level. I'm there, finally.
Primary Ball Handler. That's priority #1, and I'd be willing to trade anyone not named Flagg to get him. Period.
After that, SHOOTING.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - mvossman - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 01:42 PM)Smitty Wrote: The whole point of that post was to do what my signature said to do. I myself had not done the "homework" until then.
This all really comes down to a fundamental issue with your premise. I think Flag is a PF and you want to surround him with wings in the traditional sense (SG/SF). I don't have a lot of interest in putting another PF next to him. So the pool of players we would be looking at to replace PG seem to be very different.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - Smitty - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 02:17 PM)mvossman Wrote: That's strange. I think he plays SF more than anything else.
But speaking of Dort. I think that's an actual name that makes some sense. He's on my list of TPE guys, if the team option is picked up by OKC. I'd be in favor of adding him. Depending on the cost to acquire. He checks a lot of boxes for me.
Caruso is also on that list, and for the same reasons, I think I'd be in favor of that move also. The last 2 seasons he's been a poor 3PT shooter, but he provides some secondary ball-handling and POA defense that this team could use.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - KillerLeft - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 02:24 PM)mvossman Wrote: This all really comes down to a fundamental issue with your premise. I think Flag is a PF and you want to surround him with wings in the traditional sense (SG/SF). I don't have a lot of interest in putting another PF next to him. So the pool of players we would be looking at to replace PG seem to be very different.
Wow, so much more succinct than my ramblings. I'm going to wait for you to make points and just like your posts for a while.
THIS!
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - mvossman - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 02:25 PM)Smitty Wrote: But speaking of Dort. I think that's an actual name that makes some sense. He's on my list of TPE guys, if the team option is picked up by OKC. I'd be in favor of adding him. Depending on the cost to acquire. He checks a lot of boxes for me.
Caruso is also on that list, and for the same reasons, I think I'd be in favor of that move also. The last 2 seasons he's been a poor 3PT shooter, but he provides some secondary ball-handling and POA defense that this team could use.
That Caruso contract is rough. I would need a significant asset to take it on, but he would be a good fit.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - KillerLeft - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 02:25 PM)Smitty Wrote: But speaking of Dort. I think that's an actual name that makes some sense. He's on my list of TPE guys, if the team option is picked up by OKC. I'd be in favor of adding him. Depending on the cost to acquire. He checks a lot of boxes for me.
Caruso is also on that list, and for the same reasons, I think I'd be in favor of that move also. The last 2 seasons he's been a poor 3PT shooter, but he provides some secondary ball-handling and POA defense that this team could use.
Ideally, I'd want someone younger than either, even if it means taking a sizable gamble that the player would grow into a higher quality than they've demonstrated, so far.
But yes, I think either guy mentioned would fit better than PJW.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - Smitty - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 02:24 PM)mvossman Wrote: This all really comes down to a fundamental issue with your premise. I think Flag is a PF and you want to surround him with wings in the traditional sense (SG/SF). I don't have a lot of interest in putting another PF next to him. So the pool of players we would be looking at to replace PG seem to be very different.
OR it's a fundamental issue with your premise?
That's the thing isn't it... I said as much to Killer, that we view Flagg's game going forward differently, which makes all of this more talking past each other than anything. This turned into some PJW replacement thread, which is unfortunate. And I'll own my part in that. But I'm over talking about it. I've said plenty
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - KillerLeft - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 02:34 PM)Smitty Wrote: OR it's a fundamental issue with your premise?
That's the thing isn't it... I said as much to Killer, that we view Flagg's game going forward differently, which makes all of this more talking past each other than anything. This turned into some PJW replacement thread, which is unfortunate. And I'll own my part in that. But I'm over talking about it. I've said plenty
Only you're not over talking about it, because you're going to leave that tag up, which, to me, is the definition of straw man baiting.
That comment probably seems harsher than I intend, because I don't think you MEAN it to misconstrue anyone's position, but I have seen NOBODY in favor of trading PJW because they want a better, cheaper version of HIM. Most of us think he's GREAT! So, by definition, the conversation has been and will always be about how he fits with Flagg.
THAT'S the point. "How does ____ fit with Cooper Flagg" is the only conversation that matters at all to a Mavs fan anymore.
EDIT: Annnnnd, as I was typing this, Smitty removed the tag and made me look like a total dumbass. Well played, my guy! I admit defeat.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - Smitty - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 02:40 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Only you're not over talking about it, because you're going to leave that tag up, which, to me, is the definition of straw man baiting.
That comment probably seems harsher than I intend, because I don't think you MEAN it to misconstrue anyone's position, but I have seen NOBODY in favor of trading PJW because they want a better, cheaper version of HIM. Most of us think he's GREAT! So, by definition, the conversation has been and will always be about how he fits with Flagg.
THAT'S the point. "How does ____ fit with Cooper Flagg" is the only conversation that matters at all to a Mavs fan anymore.
I removed my signature as soon as I replied to mossman.
Edit: Ummmm how do I remove my sig?!?! I thought I did...
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - Chicagojk - 02-12-2026
Here is my very basic, probably wrong PJ vs Marshall take if the Mavs get lottery luck again.
Peterson---- probably means Marshall is moved. Flagg is your three, Max gets backup minutes at 2 and 3.
Boozer- PJ is moved
Dybansta- Either can be moved.
Maybe both are moved or not signed eventually but that is my quick .02 if the Mavs get lottery luck.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - cow - 02-12-2026
(02-12-2026, 06:18 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Here is my very basic, probably wrong PJ vs Marshall take if the Mavs get lottery luck again.
Peterson---- probably means Marshall is moved. Flagg is your three, Max gets backup minutes at 2 and 3.
Boozer- PJ is moved
Dybansta- Either can be moved.
Maybe both are moved or not signed eventually but that is my quick .02 if the Mavs get lottery luck.
Can we move Max instead of Naji?
Love,
Cow
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - myconsumerclub - 02-12-2026
Point guards
( rookie: Keaton Wagler and Mikel Brown are who I see us picking and I can see Keaton doing PG things) If we can get Peterson hes a PG so no big changes in plans but if we add a Boozer or Dybantsa you really need to trade for a pick to find a PG in the first round that does not suck at shooting 3 pointers. De Larea may be an okay guy if that is all you can snag a pick to get but then you have to spend $$$ and go after Egor Demin as a restricted free agent. Imagine Dybantsa or Boozer and Cooper and Demin that is some serious size and Demin is a PG.
(2 way )
Kyrie
(whoever survives the cut Ryan, BWill, Tyus one guy gets to stay plus a 2 way)
WINGS SG/SF SF/PF
(rookie: Milan Momcilovic guys hits 52% from 3 at this time so that is why and he may fall to our 3rd pick range, he did at tankathon)
(2 Way)
PJ NAJI Max Klay Martin AJ
BIGS C/PF
(rookie Montiejus Krivas 7'2 260#'s I would take him at 30 he wont last till 50)
(2 way) Tom or Zvon Ivisic or both if we get Wagler here we can see if he can pull off a 2 for 1 they all play for Illinois now lets see if Lively and Gafford want to play hurt or not and or not play at the top of their game because if they still suck you can trade them if and when the rookies start to demonstrate they can play better and actually stay healthy.
Lively Gafford Bagley PF/C Cooper PF Bagley is more useful as PF than PJ because he can hit his 3's
Trade ammo: Any wing not named Cooper if it fetches a middle of the late first or better and some I would take a couple seconds for, Any guard after we draft a PG with our first pick not named Kyrie and I do not care which as long as we can trade someone for a 2nd rounder and we use it on a PG. Ryan could stay on as a 2 way.
RFA's I think most of the RFA's are unimpressive except for Egor Demin just because I want to mess with Brooklyn and make them over pay or if they fail to match the offer we can fill in 2 areas of need since he can play point through SF. He would solve so many problems and he may even play some PF and he is hitting his clutch 3 pointers often enough to be worth the gamble.
UFA's that could be potential gets with the MLE: offer it to a RFA lets be adventurous and hit him with so much money the Nets crap their pants. If Dumont is the guy spending money then lets see him throw some coin to get us a Luka replacement. Someone tell Dumont he's a big euro PG like Luka and the fans would love him if he found us another Luka in waiting.
Trade options with the TPE or MLE: This free agent class just sucks bong water. That needs to be the new nick name for anyone who just sucks and that we do not like. The Bong Water boy is cool too.
Josh Hart $20.9M
Monk $20.2M
Curuso $19.5M
Nembhard $19.5M
Dort $18.2M (TO)
G. Allen $18.1M
Strus $16.6M
Schroder $14.8M
Lavert $14.8M
Moody $12.5M
Isaiah Joe $11.3M
Nesmith $11.0M
McConnell $11.0M
A. Black $10.1M
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - myconsumerclub - 02-12-2026
If we can postpone using the Trade exceptions till next seasons free agent class is available that would be extra cool. That free agent class does not suck bong water.
If any of the prior trade ammo can be used to get us a pick that gets us Christian Anderson that might make for a nice 4th rookie to add on with the others.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - F Gump - 02-12-2026
Myconsumerclub
Please stop mentioning Demin. He was just drafted in 2025 and is in his first season of a 4-year rookie deal. He has 3 more years after this one where he is in BKN control, after that his team will have EXCLUSIVE rights to sign him to even more years, and if it gets that far he might be a RFA (in the summer of 2029) where BKN has ROFR control to keep him by matching any offer.
You keep putting his name in almost every post with wrong info, as if he is available soon. He is not. Not even close.
Spamming us with mention after mention of a player like that as being someone the Mavs need to chase is tiresome. When you keep saying he is available when he's not, its just stupid. Please stop.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - DallasMaverick - 02-13-2026
(02-12-2026, 11:01 PM)F Gump Wrote: Myconsumerclub
Please stop mentioning Demin. He was just drafted in 2025 and is in his first season of a 4-year rookie deal. He has 3 more years after this one where he is in BKN control, after that his team will have EXCLUSIVE rights to sign him to even more years, and if it gets that far he might be a RFA (in the summer of 2029) where BKN has ROFR control to keep him by matching any offer.
You keep putting his name in almost every post with wrong info, as if he is available soon. He is not. Not even close.
Spamming us with mention after mention of a player like that as being someone the Mavs need to chase is tiresome. When you keep saying he is available when he's not, its just stupid. Please stop.
I’m not sure I understand.
How do you really feel about Demin? Is he gettable?
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - Smitty - 02-17-2026
(02-12-2026, 01:38 PM)Smitty Wrote: Because he wasn't listed as a SF/PF when sorted. I did overlook Cam Johnson though.
@esidery
Rival executives view Cam Johnson as a trade candidate this offseason due to Peyton Watson. Watson, a restricted free agent, is expected to receive offers sheets over $20 million annually. Moving Johnson would allow the Nuggets to keep Watson while maintaining cap flexibility.
Do we think Cam Johnson is a fit? Career 39.5% 3PT shooter on 6 attempts per game...
His $23M salary doesn't fit in the TPE this summer, but maybe there's a deal there with PJW/Gafford outgoing to another team? Lakers?
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - mvossman - 02-17-2026
(02-17-2026, 12:29 PM)Smitty Wrote: @esidery
Rival executives view Cam Johnson as a trade candidate this offseason due to Peyton Watson. Watson, a restricted free agent, is expected to receive offers sheets over $20 million annually. Moving Johnson would allow the Nuggets to keep Watson while maintaining cap flexibility.
Do we think Cam Johnson is a fit? Career 39.5% 3PT shooter on 6 attempts per game...
His $23M salary doesn't fit in the TPE this summer, but maybe there's a deal there with PJW/Gafford outgoing to another team? Lakers?
Seems a little steep for what he is, a pretty good player on a down year and about to turn 30. He is probably a better fit than PJ in the short term, but I would be looking to go younger if possible.
RE: Building Around Cooper: A Backward-Looking Thought Experiment - Chicagojk - 02-17-2026
(02-17-2026, 12:29 PM)Smitty Wrote: @esidery
Rival executives view Cam Johnson as a trade candidate this offseason due to Peyton Watson. Watson, a restricted free agent, is expected to receive offers sheets over $20 million annually. Moving Johnson would allow the Nuggets to keep Watson while maintaining cap flexibility.
Do we think Cam Johnson is a fit? Career 39.5% 3PT shooter on 6 attempts per game...
His $23M salary doesn't fit in the TPE this summer, but maybe there's a deal there with PJW/Gafford outgoing to another team? Lakers?
Interesting. Yes, in theory I think Johnson would fit. It will be interesting to see how he finishes the season with Denver. He should thrive. I believe he got off to a cold start. It does makes sense that he could be tradeable if they want to keep Watson and reduce their salary.
Funny how things change. Booth got a lot of blame but now some of his later picks looks like they are helping Denver. I was really harsh on the Nets (well deserved), but that trade is looking pretty good for them. MPJ has been the better player and may get them another asset to go with that future Nuggets first round pick. I also made fun of their picks (all five of them). From a distance, I like 4 out of 5. I have not seen one play but the others all look intriguing to me.