(05-21-2025, 07:30 PM)loki Wrote: I can't help but feel the Mavs will have to add value to Hardy+Martin to dump their contracts with nothing coming back. I doubt the 2030 Philly 2nd gets it done. If it takes a 1st round pick swap they absolutely should not do that.

This is why I don't think moving Gafford for a pick or young player is that bad of an idea. You could get a young guard to develop and open up room to sign a vet with the tax MLE. If you hold onto him there is the risk of his playing time and trade value dwindling.

(05-21-2025, 09:37 PM)F Gump Wrote: " to dump their contracts with nothing coming back " -- Well yeah, but that's not really what's been discussed (although maybe SH is thinking that way). I am certainly not in favor of that, and don't feel it would be worth the hassle.

But I think the idea you propose is just as undesirable. It's a similar idea of a big salary dump for junk, at a price of talent. And I don't favor any pure salary dump being pursued.

I have suggested (and continue to believe) that you use Martin-Hardy to chase Ball, in which case the salary difference is way more modest, and the talent is fairly even. Ball has LOTS of question marks, but also the potential to be useful. The same is certainly just as true of both Martin and Hardy. In theory, each team is turning players with mixed value into something that is of value to them.

(05-21-2025, 06:09 PM)F Gump Wrote: If you think that, you shouldn't. At one time, yes it was labeled that way. However, that's not how it actually turned out (and I'm not seeing anyone who says otherwise).

It's VERY thin at the top, with not much quantity OR quality behind Flagg, and there's not much depth to the draft either. The sizable guaranteed contracts to kids who by default end up being 1st rounders (because they are the best that's left) but are never worth a roster spot will be MANY. Sure, some of them will pan out as always, but it's a real crapshoot. And the Mavs can't really afford to get stuck with that guy who is junk, littering their cap with a multi-year guarantee. Frankly, I think B Will and Kai would be late lottery or so if they could jump into this draft right now, even at their age.

(05-21-2025, 11:12 PM)F Gump Wrote: 1 I think Lonzo being highly desired in CHI is a ship that has sailed. They wanted to dump him at the deadline, and couldn't find a taker who would offer anything they like. (They leaked that they were getting offers of a FRP. My personal speculation at the time, backed up by rumors reported later, was that the best offers they got entailed them taking a junky matching contract with future years, and they would only get a junk first-rounder). So I believe the re-signing was purely to try to get some value later, rather than let his deal expire, by signing him and then having him show something (hopefully) desirable the rest of the year. Only 1 year, so in case they couldn't trade him they wouldn't be stuck for long. 

My point being, from all appearances CHI's preferred plan has been to trade him. BUT instead of showing something good down the stretch, he got hurt AGAIN and didn't play at all.

On that basis, I believe he can be had fairly easily, cheaply, just so long as CHI feels they might be getting something useful. And I think in a Martin-Hardy package, they would see something they like, enough to pull the trigger.

2 He's a risk. It's why he should be available, and be cheap. Not sure he'll have much interest and it might be a waste of a trade for Mavs.

HOWEVER - for me, as proposed (and maybe to include DP), the Mavs do end up with a side benefit that would mitigate that potential downside, which would be that such a trade also offers needed help for Mavs in both payroll and roster space. And it could be a win for CHI too.

3 Gafford is a luxury only if (a) both Lively and AD remain healthy all season, and (b) AD is open to playing a major role at C. I don't have any reason to think either of those is true, or will become true.

4 I like the idea of Black, and would welcome him if available. But his shot is a BIG issue. ORL doesn't want Gafford anyhow, so that's not the trade. And I'm skeptical ATL would want to pay to add Gafford as they already have a C.

5 More relevant than that, I don't expect ORL would have the least interest in trading AB for a junk pick in a shallow draft, and am really skeptical they would have interest in trading him at all.

(05-21-2025, 10:28 PM)loki Wrote: I don't see Chicago being tempted by Martin-Hardy for Ball without draft compensation. They've invested too much in Lonzo to move him now for two negative contracts. I definitely don't view them as mixed value. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though. 

To attach a concrete name to a possible Gafford trade, it might be something like Gaff to Atlanta, #22 to Orlando, Black to Dallas. I don't view that as a pure salary dump. That's landing a Lonzo starter kit with two healthy knees who just needs a little more development.

I don't know enough about the draft to say if it's worth trading Gafford straight up for a pick. You may be correct about the lack of depth. But if they can find the right player with enough upside, I'm happy to take the risk of it not panning out at the expense of the 3rd center. The franchise player is only 18 years old after all. I'm more concerned with building around him than going all-in to win right now. I also don't care to see many two center lineups next year, so that may be another difference in our thinking.

(05-22-2025, 05:19 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Why is Martin seen as useless?  Nico paid Grimes and a 2nd for him, with nothing occurring since to change his value.  Nico can't be *that* bad, right?

(05-22-2025, 05:19 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Why is Martin seen as useless?  Nico paid Grimes and a 2nd for him, with nothing occurring since to change his value.  Nico can't be *that* bad, right?

(05-22-2025, 05:41 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: But even when he is 100% healthy, I don't see why Nico traded for him as a player. He can't shoot. He can't create for himself. He's not a particular creator for others. He is a fantastic defender, but even then that alone is not worth almost 10 mil with his trade kicker.