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RE: MAVS NEWS: - FireNicoHarrison - 05-19-2025
I like those numbers for PJ, he can be a bargain at that price.
We know that Kidd loves him so i think Gafford is the man who will traded this summer and i agree with it.
Lively-AD-Kai is a great Cs rotation.
Please don't trade Gafford to Lakers. Please.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - KillerLeft - 05-19-2025
(05-19-2025, 11:38 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: My preference is to keep both at good numbers and shed some of the bench excess between Martin or Naji plus Powell, Hardy and OMax. I would put draft capital with that for the right player, but would probably prefer a band-aid until Kyrie gets back over paying too much for someone who isn't in our long term plans.
All the ideas I'm seeing are "my favorite of all the bad choices" type of opinions.
Maybe I'm crazy, but with this team within striking distance of being a true contender, having great depth (some of which needs to be handled a certain way to avoid luxury tax hell) and some teams already finding themselves IN said luxury tax hell...my hopes are set on an actual good player. The kind they'd want to keep and integrate AFTER Kyrie gets healthy (if he ever does).
I believe they have enough to acquire a guard like that, if the right one becomes available, and to my way of thinking it has never been more plausible that names we assume aren't available might be over the summer.
IDK, maybe I'm crazy, but I feel there might be an off the wall triple of a deal out there this summer for the taking. If there's not and it's a matter of the criteria you suggest and nothing more, and IF PJW is willing to take a deal like that, then absolutely, he's the one you keep. In other words, if salary structure is the only real concern, then I prioritize PJW over Gafford, Naji Marshall and even Klay Thompson, personally.
I do think people's expectations of maintaining this type of depth are fairly unrealistic. AD is EXPENSIVE, and Kyrie will be pretty expensive, too, despite being injured. Flagg won't be cheap, even on his rookie deal, given he'll go #1. I think "depth" is about to mean Caleb Martin and Dwight Powell, not Naji Marshall and Daniel Gafford. But, we'll see how it plays out.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - vfromlmf - 05-19-2025
PJW can also play some small ball five. If nothing else, his positional versatility makes him much more valuable than Gafford. PJ will get plenty of starts with injuries. AD probably won't play more than 50 games. Lively might play 60. Flagg is a rookie. I wouldn't be surprised for PJ to start half the games or more.
It would be great to keep both Gafford and PJ but thinking about asset management and playoff rotations, it would seem Gafford is the odd man out, especially since DAL is clearly short on ball handlers. I think you can find a servicable backup center to soak up regular season minutes.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - KillerLeft - 05-19-2025
(05-19-2025, 12:16 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: It would be great to keep both Gafford and PJ but thinking about asset management and playoff rotations, it would seem Gafford is the odd man out, especially since DAL is clearly short on ball handlers. I think you can find a servicable backup center to soak up regular season minutes.
For me, the context with Gafford is completely different than anyone else on the roster.
1) Whether he wants "starter money" or not, he's GOING to get paid more than ANY third best player at his position on a team should, and that's what he is here. Period.
2) Yes, he's an immense help in terms of regular season depth, but he's a negative in the playoffs, and that would be true even if he was their best center, which he isn't.
3) He's a pick and roll big in a league where 2/3 of the teams are looking for those, but there's mounting evidence that the Mavericks are moving away from that style (maybe).
4) His value is very, very likely at the highest it will ever be. His collaboration with Luka has made the league hyper aware of what he can bring on offense, but he won't look like that during the rest of his time here, unless we think a deal for Haliburton or Brunson is coming this summer (lol). Meanwhile, he's getting slower on defense with each passing week. I think even by the trade deadline, his value will have cooled quite a bit, personally, especially once he's buried in the rotation.
I always get accused of being anti-Gafford, but I actually think he's a good player to have in the right situation. I just don't think backing up Davis AND Lively on a team with no pick and roll master is that situation, particularly when the team is short an important starter and starting to feel the pressure of an out of whack salary structure.
I think that, even if they keep him...even if they EXTEND or RE-SIGN him, Gafford won't make it to the end of his next deal here, so to me it makes all the sense in the world to use him as an asset to reposition the roster in a more flexible way.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - cow - 05-19-2025
(05-19-2025, 12:28 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think even by the trade deadline, his value will have cooled quite a bit, personally, especially once he's buried in the rotation.
I think you are correct, but more for the fact that he will not have Luka and Kyrie spoon feeding his offensive stats leading up to the TDL. The likelihood is that AD and Lively will miss games so I'm less concerned about getting buried in the depth chart. Those are all factors of the ifs and whens you should pull the trigger on trading him. Also, I thought I read that Flagg was pretty good at the lob games with his centers in PNR which should be a consideration.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - KillerLeft - 05-19-2025
(05-19-2025, 12:37 PM)cow Wrote: Also, I thought I read that Flagg was pretty good at the lob games with his centers in PNR which should be a consideration.
Oh, he is, for sure.
Possibly, the plan might be to have him handle the ball much more than we're thinking - that's a possibility for me, and would change the calculus significantly, but you're one of the ones cautioning that he might not be ready. I don't think we have enough info to go on yet in terms of what the plan will be on offense. BUT, an offense built around AD and (eventually) Kyrie Irving won't be built on pick and roll - I'm pretty confident about that.
Lots of possibilities, at this point.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - Winter - 05-19-2025
I like Gafford more than Killer, but the part about his value is true. It's also likely Gafford will get fewer minutes this year so his value won't increase for sure.
With all that in mind, I think he's the best trade piece if we are keeping PJ. I still hope Nico will play a little in the upcoming draft outside our #1. The draft is kind of strange this year with certain teams already loaded up with picks. But either way, I think Gafford is valuable to someone.... I just can't put together who we might be after outside of a Lonzo deal.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - F Gump - 05-19-2025
KL ...I don't see the roster values like you do, especially when it comes to Gafford. One major issue that flies way under the radar is that Mavs supposed best players tend to not be available a lot, and it looks to me like Gafford is the most likely big to stay healthy. If you trade Gafford, imo you will likely keep running into issues due to lack of big bodies.
That being said, I'd trade anyone (and especially including AD, but DL too) in the right trade. EXCEPT not CF under any scenario.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - numnuts23 - 05-19-2025
How would Flagg at the 2 look sometimes?
Kyrie
Flagg
PJ
AD
Lively
RE: MAVS NEWS: - Smitty - 05-19-2025
(05-19-2025, 12:50 PM)numnuts23 Wrote: How would Flagg at the 2 look sometimes?
Kyrie
Flagg
PJ
AD
Lively
Just fine in most matchups. Depends on if Flagg or PJ can handle the POA duties.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - KillerLeft - 05-19-2025
(05-19-2025, 12:49 PM)F Gump Wrote: KL ...I don't see the roster values like you do, especially when it comes to Gafford. One major issue that flies way under the radar is that Mavs supposed best players tend to not be available a lot, and it looks to me like Gafford is the most likely big to stay healthy. If you trade Gafford, imo you will likely keep running into issues due to lack of big bodies.
That being said, I'd trade anyone (and especially including AD, but DL too) in the right trade. EXCEPT not CF under any scenario.
For me...
...if I'm that worried about availability of those in front of him, I trade THEM. But, I'm NOT worried about Lively's availability yet (maybe time will tell I'm wrong about that) and while I'm EXTREMELY worried about Davis' availability, I'm resigned to the idea that it won't even occur to the decision makers to pivot away from him at this point (maybe I'm wrong about that, too).
Planning for the worst case scenario can be smart and all, but in this case we're talking about the third best center when they currently have zero ball-handling that scares anyone. Like, they probably have the worst backcourt in the league, possibly even with a healthy Kyrie. It just seems silly to me to prioritize the THIRD BEST center (fifth best big, if we include PJW and Flagg in the conversation) over that.
If your chance to contend hinges on who your third best center is, then you're not going to contend. That's the bottom line for me. Further, Gafford is too good to be anyone's third best center. It all just seems like a waste. Just my opinion.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - Scott41theMavs - 05-19-2025
The sad fact of the matter is that the only Mavs to whom I have any sort of emotional/fan connection to prior to this draft are Lively and PJ (and to a lesser extent Kyrie, for what a good soldier he has been). I don't want to see either of those two traded, unless it's part of a package for an all-star-level player not named Kevin Durant.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - KillerLeft - 05-19-2025
(05-19-2025, 01:02 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: The sad fact of the matter is that the only Mavs to whom I have any sort of emotional/fan connection to prior to this draft are Lively and PJ (and to a lesser extent Kyrie, for what a good soldier he has been). I don't want to see either of those two traded, unless it's part of a package for an all-star-level player not named Kevin Durant.
I hear you. I think that's the absolute best part of this Cooper Flagg thing. For me, the team has an organizing principle again that's easily identifiable. There's someone to root for, someone around whom to build.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - Jmaciscool - 05-19-2025
(05-19-2025, 01:07 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I hear you. I think that's the absolute best part of this Cooper Flagg thing. For me, the team has an organizing principle again that's easily identifiable. There's someone to root for, someone around whom to build.
This x 1.8!!! That's the best part for me too, someone that is truly "our guy" to root for. I personally didn't realize how important that was to me until it was gone.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - cow - 05-19-2025
(05-19-2025, 01:02 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: The sad fact of the matter is that the only Mavs to whom I have any sort of emotional/fan connection to prior to this draft are Lively and PJ (and to a lesser extent Kyrie, for what a good soldier he has been). I don't want to see either of those two traded, unless it's part of a package for an all-star-level player not named Kevin Durant.
You forgot Dwight Powell. Everyone has an emotional connection to him in one direction or the other. And speaking of Dwight, if you trade Gaff, he'll get more minutes.
I'm for selling everyone high, but I'm not going to make moves just to make them. We don't know what we have in Flagg nor who will and will not work with him.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - Winter - 05-19-2025
Dwight may turn out to be valuable... I mean Boston or some other team may need a player-contract to dump in a trade.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - myconsumerclub - 05-19-2025
With Cooper we have someone that may make Luka want to return to Dallas in order to win a ring once Kyrie is gone. I can only hope that is the case.
Starters: Cooper, AD, Kyrie*, Lively, & Klay
Bench, PJ, Naji, Gafford, Max, & Brandon
fill in the blank __________ for who we get in trade or draft picks we can still try to obtain to play for Kyrie
*INJURED
Obvious trade bait useful for getting other assets: Powell, Omax, Martin, Hardy, & possibly S&T opportunities with Exum and Dinwiddie.
Guys we can resign if still needed: Kai Jones, Moses Brown, and Kessler Edwards
Every year we make our lists of options and every year the MBT does something out of left field nobody thinks is possible. I see a lot of great ideas and targets being listed but in all that wishing we need to keep our top 10 guys and use the left overs to trade off guys that we might be lucky to find a buyer for. If we can find takers for them then we can acquire usable assets whether those assets are picks to use in the draft or guys that can fill an area of need.
Some of the bench guys may be useful if a difference maker comes back in trade.
Boston has a need to drop salary so lets definitely see what we can do to take advantage of that. Similar situations may exist with teams that are deciding to blow things up like Milwaukee.
Lets try to find solutions to our Kyrie problem without involving a trade that might empower LA or any other team that is possibly a contender.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - myconsumerclub - 05-19-2025
Guys we have who can step in and contribute as replacements for AD Klay and Kyrie are who we need to find.
I say PJ is a fill in for AD. B Will for Kyrie and if Klay goes down your going to need someone that can hit 3's and all I see is Max and maybe Hardy but Exum is someone we might need there as well.
I do not think we can 2 way any of the guys from last season so with them it is resign them or let them go forever time to make a decision and hopefully if any of them are gone for good we line up 3 more 2 way guys that can fill in just as well as they did.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - DanSchwartzgan - 05-20-2025
(05-19-2025, 10:01 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: So would you do it? I know this is late in the summer, but Mavs should know this answer well in advance. Might be the best bet. PJ should remain a tradeable piece even with a bigger contract. It will be a delicate conversation though and the Mavs aren't good at these.
https://x.com/YossiGozlan/status/1924343140456235369
This Yossi guy is also the one who floated a Gafford/Martin/Stuff plus Laker 2029 and Mav 2031 for White. He has a deal on You Tube where he goes through the trade and all of the Mav's cap issues/strategies. It is worth a listen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq850rzL6HU
I personally wouldn't give up two firsts for White, but he makes some other interesting points in the video:
1. He's of the same school as FG and I in terms of Kyrie opting out and signing a new deal in the $120-$125mm range. Starting would be in the $37-$38mm range (and you'd remove the ULTBE incentives). Kyrie's apron number is almost $45mm, so starting around $38mm is significant.
2. He also suggested Powell opt out and sign for the minimum and put a little guaranteed money in a partially guaranteed second year to make up the difference.
3. Any deal that sends out Martin saves his salary plus another $1.28mm in bonuses against the apron. He seems like excess to me here, but might have some value around the league.
4. He also talked about Dallas just giving away a player to save money under the apron. He suggested Klay, which I can't see. But, I could see Hardy. I could also see Martin/Hardy going for someone making well under their combined salaries.
The idea here is to get further away from Apron 2 (possibly under Apron 1 if you give someone away for air). You open up some more possibilities. But, the first domino to fall is Kyrie.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - Smitty - 05-20-2025
(05-20-2025, 10:20 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: 4. He also talked about Dallas just giving away a player to save money under the apron. He suggested Klay, which I can't see. But, I could see Hardy. I could also see Martin/Hardy going for someone making well under their combined salaries.
The idea here is to get further away from Apron 2 (possibly under Apron 1 if you give someone away for air). You open up some more possibilities. But, the first domino to fall is Kyrie.
I think that could possibly be done with Gafford for the Atlanta pick (#22). They have the Murray TPE and the have Pick #13 in this draft as well. The only Center on the roster is Okongwu. Gafford could continue to thrive with a player like Young.
I think combining Martin+Hardy could get you in the mix for Lonzo. The Bulls have a lot of guards and no Wings. There's no role for either of them here, but I could see Martin being a good get for them. Saves the Mavs ~$5M.
Like you mentioned, Kyrie and the way that goes will help the Mavs make these types of decisions.