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RE: MAVS NEWS: - audiosway - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 11:48 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Oh I think absolutely. They decided to team up together when KD was going to be out a minimum a year dealing with his achilles rehab.
I can see a similar scenario here. Except instead of Kyrie carrying the Nets without KD for a year, KD will work with AD to keep the Mavs afloat.
I've had a feeling this was in the works since Luka was traded. I've said a few times that I had a feeling that Kyrie and Klay had talked to Nico and Kidd about Luka.
I don't think Kyrie tearing his ACL will matter to these guys. They will continue on and get KD in the offseason. They better hire a great medical staff.
I've been trying to stay positive and on paper I understand what they are trying to do. However, this is just a disaster.
The only guys on this team that feel like "our guys" are PJ, Lively, Gaff, and maybe Exum. I have a feeling some of those guys will be playing in Phoenix next year.
Anyone thinking tank is wrong. If Nico got the #1 pick Flagg would be playing for the Suns. I think KD, Kyrie, Klay, and AD are the destination. Nico said that for the Luka deal to get done no one could know. Is that because of all of the backlash Kyrie received when the other guys found out what he was doing in Boston?
I think the goal hasn't changed. Kyrie and KD were going to team up with AD. That's been the goal since Kyrie was traded to Boston. I think Klay knew since he had played with KD out here. He was likely asked and said no because he was planning to retire as a Warrior. Once they didn't offer him a max deal he was in.
Kyrie said after the Luka trade that it's a ruthless business. Yep. It sure is.
All this is doing is pushing me to be a Lakers fan.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - cow - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 03:17 PM)audiosway Wrote: The only guys on this team that feel like "our guys" are PJ, Lively, Gaff, and maybe Exum.
Somewhere Dwight Powell just shed a tear.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - Jmaciscool - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 03:28 PM)cow Wrote: Somewhere Dwight Powell just shed a tear.
A tear so big it somehow hit his own face.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - mvossman - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 03:17 PM)audiosway Wrote: Anyone thinking tank is wrong. If Nico got the #1 pick Flagg would be playing for the Suns.
There is no real tank question. This team is going to lose a lot of games whether they try or not, and its not going to move them hardly at all in the standings. They are completely stuck.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - F Gump - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 03:17 PM)audiosway Wrote: If Nico got the #1 pick Flagg would be playing for the Suns.
I'm with you 99% of the time, but this is absurd and utter BS. Good grief.
If the Mavs miraculously got the #1 pick, they are grabbing Flagg, keeping him, and then figuring out how to navigate the rest of the roster. He's the sort of player you alter your plans for.
It would be an interesting exercise, frankly, so see what came next. Considering where this franchise has fallen, Flagg's probably a billion dollar difference to their future prospects as a franchise over the next decade. And I'm firing Nico and hiring a different decision-maker to mastermind the path as my first move.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - DanSchwartzgan - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 04:42 PM)F Gump Wrote: I'm with you 99% of the time, but this is absurd and utter BS. Good grief.
If the Mavs miraculously got the #1 pick, they are grabbing Flagg, keeping him, and then figuring out how to navigate the rest of the roster. He's the sort of player you alter your plans for.
It would be an interesting exercise, frankly, so see what came next. Considering where this franchise has fallen, Flagg's probably a billion dollar difference to their future prospects as a franchise over the next decade. And I'm firing Nico and hiring a different decision-maker to mastermind the path as my first move.
Completely agree on Flagg. I think the harder question is what if we get #4? What about #10 or 11? Someone at Lively's level (if you got that lucky again) isn't something to give away lightly.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - Jmaciscool - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 04:42 PM)F Gump Wrote: I'm with you 99% of the time, but this is absurd and utter BS. Good grief.
If the Mavs miraculously got the #1 pick, they are grabbing Flagg, keeping him, and then figuring out how to navigate the rest of the roster. He's the sort of player you alter your plans for.
It would be an interesting exercise, frankly, so see what came next. Considering where this franchise has fallen, Flagg's probably a billion dollar difference to their future prospects as a franchise over the next decade. And I'm firing Nico and hiring a different decision-maker to mastermind the path as my first move.
I think at the very least, even in a world where Nico tried to trade that pick for someone like KD (or some other "win-now" player) then the ownership wouldn't sign off on it.
It seems logical (which may mean it's not true in this case...) that the ownership isn't going to rubber-stamp approve every single move Nico puts in front of them anymore.
I don't think they know basketball at all and were relying on Nico's "expertise" and just blindly approved his vision because they thought it would win, quickly blow over, etc. I would assume his job security is currently riding on how this pans out in the very near future (and right now it's not looking so good).
But maybe that's wishful thinking on my part since I desperately want Nico gone.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - Jym - 03-04-2025
Season of Hell?
Welcome to the decade of Hell
RE: MAVS NEWS: - audiosway - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 04:42 PM)F Gump Wrote: I'm with you 99% of the time, but this is absurd and utter BS. Good grief.
If the Mavs miraculously got the #1 pick, they are grabbing Flagg, keeping him, and then figuring out how to navigate the rest of the roster. He's the sort of player you alter your plans for.
It would be an interesting exercise, frankly, so see what came next. Considering where this franchise has fallen, Flagg's probably a billion dollar difference to their future prospects as a franchise over the next decade. And I'm firing Nico and hiring a different decision-maker to mastermind the path as my first move.
From the owner's standpoint I completely agree with you. I just have no idea with the decisions they keep making. I'm just very frustrated that I'm at the point of not giving them any benefit of doubt. It just seems to be getting worse by the day.
I thought maybe they know something we don't since they see Luka all the time. At first, he didn't look right when he came back. Now Luka looks fine. Yeah he's still lost a step and at 26 that's not a good sign.
Then, Gaff goes down, next it's Kyrie, now they may not have enough players to field a team. lol. The owner comes out and says Luka didn't work hard like Shaq did?!?
Let's consider this my moment of not being sound of mind. Just extremely frustrated hearing about Kyrie's injury. I just hit stage 4 this morning of the stages of grief. Depression.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - audiosway - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 04:55 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Completely agree on Flagg. I think the harder question is what if we get #4? What about #10 or 11? Someone at Lively's level (if you got that lucky again) isn't something to give away lightly.
I agree. I think they need to prioritize this pick and get a player that can be a part of the core of the team. I'm just starting to feel like we are going to see some young assets go to the Suns for KD and that's making me very depressed about the future of the team beyond a year or two. The 90s were bad.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - mvossman - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 04:55 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Completely agree on Flagg. I think the harder question is what if we get #4? What about #10 or 11? Someone at Lively's level (if you got that lucky again) isn't something to give away lightly.
This is why they need to fire Nico by the end of the season. He will be in full on desperate mode to make the Luka trade not a complete disaster. No asset will be safe (Flagg would be, but not realistic possibility). Unfortunately, our limited exposure to the new ownership does not give me a lot of confidence they will make the right decision. I'm afraid Dumont might have stamped his name to that trade with his silly "Shaq work ethic" speech and may decide to sink with the Nico ship.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - DanSchwartzgan - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 05:18 PM)audiosway Wrote: I agree. I think they need to prioritize this pick and get a player that can be a part of the core of the team. I'm just starting to feel like we are going to see some young assets go to the Suns for KD and that's making me very depressed about the future of the team beyond a year or two. The 90s were bad.
I get it. It is depressing. We made a bet on AD's health and that we could win with Kyrie as our only starter level creator. We crapped out on both. To make matters worse, the path forward isn't very inspiring:
You can't trade Kyrie this summer. He's damaged and will be free at the end of 25/26 assuming he takes his PO. Even by the TDL, he won't be back to full speed if he's playing at all. Oh, and you have to use some asset to replace his role at some level. SD and Exum are both free and you aren't in a great position to add anyone except by trade, the NTMLE or through the draft.
You probably can't trade AD this summer. I assume they will shut him down and maybe even do surgery. You will get pennies on the dollar if you try to trade him before he shows the world he can stay healthy for more than a day.
Klay has very little value. Without Luka or Kyrie he's going to look more and more pedestrian. The same probably applies to Martin, Christie and Naji, but at least they don't cost as much.
Your most exciting young player has a broken bone in his foot (the history of bigs with feet problems isn't great).
This summer is extension time for PJ and Gafford. Do you do the extensions? Do you trade them? Do you keep them without extending? That just seems like a great way to get "Brunsoned" again. What makes that even more difficult is you probably can't sort out a plan for Kyrie and AD until the TDL or maybe the summer of 2027. Dark times.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - Jmaciscool - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 05:39 PM)mvossman Wrote: This is why they need to fire Nico by the end of the season. He will be in full on desperate mode to make the Luka trade not a complete disaster. No asset will be safe (Flagg would be, but not realistic possibility). Unfortunately, our limited exposure to the new ownership does not give me a lot of confidence they will make the right decision. I'm afraid Dumont might have stamped his name to that trade with his silly "Shaq work ethic" speech and may decide to sink with the Nico ship.
After experiencing the results of non-desperate Nico I really really don't want to see what desperate mode Nico does.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - DanSchwartzgan - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 05:39 PM)mvossman Wrote: This is why they need to fire Nico by the end of the season. He will be in full on desperate mode to make the Luka trade not a complete disaster.
Yeah, doubling down seems like a natural human instinct and therefore a very real concern.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - audiosway - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 05:45 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I get it. It is depressing. We made a bet on AD's health and that we could win with Kyrie as our only starter level creator. We crapped out on both. To make matters worse, the path forward isn't very inspiring:
You can't trade Kyrie this summer. He's damaged and will be free at the end of 25/26 assuming he takes his PO. Even by the TDL, he won't be back to full speed if he's playing at all. Oh, and you have to use some asset to replace his role at some level. SD and Exum are both free and you aren't in a great position to add anyone except by trade, the NTMLE or through the draft.
You probably can't trade AD this summer. I assume they will shut him down and maybe even do surgery. You will get pennies on the dollar if you try to trade him before he shows the world he can stay healthy for more than a day.
Klay has very little value. Without Luka or Kyrie he's going to look more and more pedestrian. The same probably applies to Martin, Christie and Naji, but at least they don't cost as much.
Your most exciting young player has a broken bone in his foot (the history of bigs with feet problems isn't great).
This summer is extension time for PJ and Gafford. Do you do the extensions? Do you trade them? Do you keep them without extending? That just seems like a great way to get "Brunsoned" again. What makes that even more difficult is you probably can't sort out a plan for Kyrie and AD until the TDL or maybe the summer of 2027. Dark times.
That rabbit hole led me to my freak out. I started thinking about all of this stuff after hearing of Kyrie's injury. Just wow. The Luka trade set off a domino effect that just keeps leading to more and more bad things. Gaff is injured because of playing heavy minutes with Lively not being in the lineup. Kyrie is injured now from playing too many minutes as the only creator.
Can you resign these guys to extensions or get "Brunsoned" like you said. Do they get traded for KD. There is another old player that I don't like.
Kyrie opts in now and if Nico stays could very well get a max deal at age 34?!? Lively is becoming AD part II with the injuries.
AD will realistically get us 50+ games a year for the next 2-3 years. On the court this team would be amazing. Will they ever all see the court at the same time? Are we in for the Deron Williams days of the Nets? A team with a big 3/4 that no one could ever stay healthy. And you can't trade them because they are damaged.
I'm finally starting to feel a little better by just stepping away for a few minutes. It's just surreal coming off of a finals run thinking it was the beginning of great things. Now here we are.
Thanks to all of you guys for being on here and keeping this running.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - HoosierDaddyKid - 03-04-2025
This may be unconditional wisdom here, but I'd shut Davis down for the rest of the season, in lieu of Kyrie's injury. And the same for Gafford and Lively. I mean, they'll only be playing for pride, and they can develop their younger players, and start fresh next season even through a lot of uncertainty.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - mvossman - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 06:00 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: This may be unconditional wisdom here, but I'd shut Davis down for the rest of the season, in lieu of Kyrie's injury. And the same for Gafford and Lively. I mean, they'll only be playing for pride, and they can develop their younger players.
The only argument against shutting AD down is if you have any thoughts of selling everything and going full tank next season and he gets healthy enough that you can showcase him that he is back to full health. I don't think this FO/ownership is thinking like that, and not sure how much you could really resuscitate his value anyways.
As for developing younger players, too bad we don't have any healthy younger bigs to develop.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - cow - 03-04-2025
Nico traded Luka so nothing would surprise me, including trading Flagg.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 03:41 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: A tear so big it somehow hit his own face.
A Bukakke of Tears.
Sums up this last month pretty aptly.
RE: MAVS NEWS: - F Gump - 03-04-2025
(03-04-2025, 04:55 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Completely agree on Flagg. I think the harder question is what if we get #4? What about #10 or 11? Someone at Lively's level (if you got that lucky again) isn't something to give away lightly.
I agree on the fact that other lottery picks get harder to gauge.
Right now they would be in lottery slot 13, with 20 games to go. That's not much opportunity to change position. They are definitely not going to get to 9th or better, and they trail the teams sitting 10-11-12 (PHX, ATL, POR) right now by ~ 4 games. I'm figuring they land at no better than 11, and probably 12-13.
As for whether that's a place to get a player where you keep the pick, I have no clue. I'd guess yes, pick 13 in a good draft could offer good value, but it's the specific player that is there or not that would determine the answer. Mavs over the years have had limited success with picks outside the top 10 (with Lively being a fortunate exception), so there's that fact regarding value to consider.
One other relevant factor. I have mentioned that landing pick 1 creates issues with their finances (making a KD deal subject to doing things that seem very unlikely, and cost prohibitive), but there is a SIGNIFICANT salary diff between pick 1 and 13, from about $14M to about $5M. When you are dealing with 2nd Apron issues, a diff of $9M is going to change your landscape. Maybe they can just get Flagg at 13?!?!