(01-02-2025, 12:50 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I don't know the answer so curious where would you rank the defense of the new guys:  Klay, Grimes and Marshall.  I think both Klay and Grimes look the part.  It seems like Grimes has some lapses off ball.    I have no idea about Marshall's defense to be honest.

would you rank them average, above average or below average so far?

(01-02-2025, 02:29 PM)mvossman Wrote: I would rank Klay average (which is higher than expected) and the other two above average.  I would like to get a longer look at Naji at backup 4 and see how viable an option that is.

(01-02-2025, 02:55 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Me too.  I think this is where it is going to land up, outside of any trades/injuries.  The rotation is tough to make sense with minutes (when healthy) without it.   I didn't like Marshall at the 4 earlier in the year but it was a short run and it was during a bad early stretch.    He is one of our 8 best players.  I think grimes is also.  So, I think Marshall will eventually get backup 4 minutes.

I really think this was a trial run for Kleber.  In the end, I expect him to be in a wild card position depending on matchups.  If he gets hot, he gets more minutes.  If Gafford struggles, he gets some time at the 5.  ETC.

I could be wrong, but if I was betting that is what I would bet and what I would want to see.

(01-02-2025, 12:50 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I don't know the answer so curious where would you rank the defense of the new guys:  Klay, Grimes and Marshall.  I think both Klay and Grimes look the part.  It seems like Grimes has some lapses off ball.    I have no idea about Marshall's defense to be honest.

would you rank them average, above average or below average so far?

(01-02-2025, 11:08 PM)sefant Wrote: D-EPM

Lively +1.8 (27)
PJ +1.6 (35)
Grimes +1.1 (63)
Luka +0.8 (84)
Naji +0.8 (85)
Maxi +0.3 (138)
Klay +0.0 (176)
OMax +0.0 (180)
Hardy +0.0 (182)
SD -0.0 (184)
Gortman -0.3 (229)
Kyrie -0.8 (309)
Powell -0.9 (316)
Gafford -1.7 (395)

that is season EPM

(01-02-2025, 03:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: PJ Washington might be the team's most valuable player, which isn't an ideal place to be...

(01-03-2025, 01:44 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: That checks out with my eye test, for the most part. Pretty interesting.

(01-02-2025, 12:50 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: I don't know the answer so curious where would you rank the defense of the new guys:  Klay, Grimes and Marshall.  I think both Klay and Grimes look the part.  It seems like Grimes has some lapses off ball.    I have no idea about Marshall's defense to be honest.

would you rank them average, above average or below average so far?

(01-05-2025, 09:53 AM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: DLEBRON says Klay and Naji have been below average to bad while Grimes has had a positive defensive impact. The Mavs need a wing defender. The problem isn’t so much acquiring one but that you basically then need to consign Klay into a low minute bench player. Signing Klay and becoming hostage to his reputation has turned into a trap.

(01-05-2025, 09:53 AM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: DLEBRON says Klay and Naji have been below average to bad while Grimes has had a positive defensive impact. The Mavs need a wing defender. The problem isn’t so much acquiring one but that you basically then need to consign Klay into a low minute bench player. Signing Klay and becoming hostage to his reputation has turned into a trap.

(01-05-2025, 11:11 AM)mvossman Wrote: Never been a fan of LEBRON and if DLEBRON says Naji is a below average defender then I am less impressed.  

Not sure I get the Klay hate.  He has been what you would hope he would be.  He doesn't kill you on defense, makes high BBIQ decisions and shoots at a very high level.  The starting lineup including Luka/Kyrie/Klay was never going to be a top 5 defense, but the idea was that Klay could take the offense to another level against teams like Boston, and in the rare cases where all three were healthy, he has.  Of all the team's problems recently, I would put Klay way down on that list.

(01-05-2025, 12:23 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: Klay has had his moments, but they've been few and far between. It's why GS let him walk. The Butler situation is very similar. Aging star that wants an extension, that the team is unwilling to give him.

(01-05-2025, 10:26 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: The perimeter defender could be an issue.   That is why I may be interested in a small trade to get a good defender, even if he may be outside the main rotation.  I keep coming back to Thybulle.   Finding a trade to work is difficult.

(01-05-2025, 07:43 PM)F Gump Wrote: You don't want Thybulle anyhow. He's only desirable when you don't see him play on a regular basis. He would be unplayable in the playoffs because of his utter lack of offense, and sitting on the bench negates any value as a defender.

The defender they should pursue imo is DJJ, who offers more on offense than Thybulle and had a good fit in Mavs scheme, but even he may not be close enough to a 2-way solution.

(01-06-2025, 01:08 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Thank you for the Thybulle take! I have felt like I'm taking crazy pills every time his name comes up. I have no idea why everyone here loves him so much.

(01-06-2025, 04:17 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Because Thybulle still is one of the best lockdown defenders this league has to offer. I think his fit on this Mavs team now is a but murkier than what it was 2 summers ago, but he'd still instantly become our best defender on this squad and that is a valuable trait. 

His offensive game is certainly questionable, although I still think he's underrated. He is highly athletic like DJJ, knows how to cut, and was hovering around 40% on 3s last season on POR until mid January so there is some evidence that he can become at least an average 3pt shooter. 

If Portland had a single vet PF that made sense, I'd be drumming up several hypothetical deals to get Thybulle on the Mavs along with said vet PF. Alas, I don't think it's meant to be as of now.