(02-09-2024, 09:41 AM)Smitty Wrote: If you would have suggested before the TDL that the Mavs immediately corrected their Grant Williams mistake and upgrade their PF/C spots while also netting a draft pick, I would have blocked you for being a troll. (kidding)

(02-09-2024, 09:33 AM)JamesConway912 Wrote: Fully agree. I remain on the skeptical side here. We have little to no safety net from 2027 on going forward and will be severely limited in our ways to improve the roster further / replace guys as they age out (Kyrie? Timmy? Can Kleber keep the recent play?)

I think ultimately we haven’t gotten enough talent for what we have moved out in terms of draft assets over the years. Things just add up in a bad way. Owing another 1st to NY for KP here, an unprotected pick swap for Grant there, throw in the 1st we moved for Kyrie, now PJ. That’s a lot. The Cleveland-comparison hurts but i would not be surprised to see things end like that.

Lowe: „it feels like they are always chasing their tale“ in regards to all the picks we’ve moved for guys like Grant, correcting the Brunson mistake by going for Kyrie, now paying to move on from Grant just a few months later.

Also Lowe: „The team looks good on paper“ but he raises concerns about the asset management part of modern day NBA roster building as we somehow always end up „paying a premium“ throughout all these moves & the correcting of mistakes.

(02-09-2024, 09:45 AM)omahen Wrote: I totally agree that winning is best strategy to keep Luka. But what if PJ turns into another GWill story? There are less and less possibilities to recover from such a mistake. Lets be realistic. Mavs are current 8th seed. Certainly in a position where making playoffs is not totally certain. What do you do if they don't make it? How do you recover from there?

(02-09-2024, 09:31 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: But man, their maneuvering on draft night changed me. Imagine if they had just done that three years in a row up until the next free agent period for Luka. Imagine the amount of young talent there would be around here at that point, and imagine how much experience some of it would have by then.

(02-09-2024, 09:45 AM)omahen Wrote: If a chance for Luka to leave is so small as you think, than these moves make even less sense. Than building slowly around him would be a far better long-term strategy. Mavs are taking the risks because they are affraid Luka will not resign or ask out.

My personal feelings. Luka being as competitive as he is, would suffer so much in the middle of the pack hell that he would rather go to where he could win than suffer. I think his happines would be more important to him than additional money. He is rich as it is. Besides, he could probably easily recuperate loss in salary with endorsement deals he could get in top destinations. 

I totally agree that winning is best strategy to keep Luka. But what if PJ turns into another GWill story? There are less and less possibilities to recover from such a mistake. Lets be realistic. Mavs are current 8th seed. Certainly in a position where making playoffs is not totally certain. What do you do if they don't make it? How do you recover from there?

(02-09-2024, 09:52 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I hear this but I think that one thing that is way different with these trades than past years where we’re mortgaging the future is we’re adding young talent!

The biggest issue so far with Luka teams from a roster management standpoint is that the pieces around him were both, not talented enough but also, and more importantly from a team building standpoint, the pieces had no individual value across the league. It’s not just about having the ability to recoup picks via a desperate Luka trade, we now have other pieces worthy of draft compensation. That wasn’t the case no more than a year ago.

I get the angle of doom and gloom but we can’t assume there was going to be a great trade market this offseason and we still have plenty of ammo if there is. It was always going to be a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation, but I believe that the future would have been bleak if Luka leaves no matter how many picks we had and you should be aggressive while you have one of the best players in the world. 

At the end of day this all comes back to the KP fiasco but you have to play the hand your dealt and I think they did a pretty great job yesterday. Little things like making sure Holmes is involved and getting second round picks is something I wouldn’t have expected this FO to do in this situation in the past.

(02-09-2024, 09:52 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I get the angle of doom and gloom but we can’t assume there was going to be a great trade market this offseason and we still have plenty of ammo if there is. It was always going to be a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation, but I believe that the future would have been bleak if Luka leaves no matter how many picks we had and you should be aggressive while you have one of the best players in the world. 

(02-09-2024, 09:56 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: So they punt on this season and wait for the offseason to get Jerami Grant and he doesn’t work out. What now? It’s the same questions. Very little value in poopooing now. Plenty of time for that later.

(02-09-2024, 10:00 AM)omahen Wrote: I don't think there is much doom and gloom really. I would say some of us are just cautious and not celebrating before we actually see the on court product.

What triggers me a bit is that in the discussions prior to TDL, "90 %" of the board would laugh at proposals to trade 2027 for PJ. Find thousand arguments why this is an overkill and how 2 SRP is max we should do. Now all of a sudden "90 %" of the board is super positive about it.

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The possibility of player like Grant not working here is far lower than the possibility of player like PJ not working here. That is my main argument. Of course it is always possible it wouldn't be enough, but I would be far more comfortable doing it.

(02-09-2024, 10:00 AM)omahen Wrote: I don't think there is much doom and gloom really. I would say some of us are just cautious and not celebrating before we actually see the on court product.

What triggers me a bit is that in the discussions prior to TDL, "90 %" of the board would laugh at proposals to trade 2027 for PJ. Find thousand arguments why this is an overkill and how 2 SRP is max we should do. Now all of a sudden "90 %" of the board is super positive about it.

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The possibility of player like Grant not working here is far lower than the possibility of player like PJ not working here. That is my main argument. Of course it is always possible it wouldn't be enough, but I would be far more comfortable doing it.

(02-09-2024, 10:03 AM)MFFL Wrote: I personally wasn't a proponent of trading the 2027 pick for PJ but we did get two 2nd rounders back. That matters.

(02-09-2024, 10:00 AM)omahen Wrote: I don't think there is much doom and gloom really. I would say some of us are just cautious and not celebrating before we actually see the on court product.

What triggers me a bit is that in the discussions prior to TDL, "90 %" of the board would laugh at proposals to trade 2027 for PJ. Find thousand arguments why this is an overkill and how 2 SRP is max we should do. Now all of a sudden "90 %" of the board is super positive about it.

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The possibility of player like Grant not working here is far lower than the possibility of player like PJ not working here. That is my main argument. Of course it is always possible it wouldn't be enough, but I would be far more comfortable doing it.

(02-09-2024, 09:14 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Sure, but I’m not saying anything to contradict that. What I’m saying is that they are putting themselves in a situation where “winning” will no longer be a choice they can make.

What Luka is going to care about the next time he has to make a decision is not only whether or not the team has been competitive in the years leading up to that decision, it will be even more about his opinion of their chances to be competitive moving into the future from that point in time. 

Every time they do one of these deals, the future gets a little less bright. I like the two players they got a lot, I just don’t think they can afford to operate like this anymore. They really are starting to feel like Cleveland did the first time LeBron played there.

(02-09-2024, 10:06 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Ya maybe it’s caution and not doom, just need to words of the wet blanket bros of the hoop collective to run their course I think. I personally am not surprised it took the 27 pick to get PJ but I’ve been pumping his name here for a while so I have a bit of a bias there. I also though GWill would be a good fit too though so maybe it blows up but I do strongly feel this roster is better and more importantly the pieces have more value across the league so I think we’re moving in the right direction overall.

(02-09-2024, 10:10 AM)omahen Wrote: I also think the roster is better. But there is imho a huge difference between better and true contender. I don't think Mavs are a true contender after TDL moves and a path to get there is imho more difficult now than it was before TDL. 

I was fully aware the only path to PJ is trading the FRP. I was certain those 2 SRP ideas floated around here make no sense. But, my stance regarding PJ was that he is not worth the 2027. So I also have a bias and only time will tell what happens.

(02-09-2024, 10:18 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: If the players work out reasonably well, I think we are a dark horse contender this year. I really hope these moves also allow for Luka and Kyrie to play less mpg too.

(02-09-2024, 09:31 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I agree that Luka probably needs to see a plan NOW, and that he’s probably one of the main voices deciding things like “Grant is weird, get him out of here” or “PJ seems like a good fit.” 

And before this summer, I would’ve been resigned to this path like you seem to be. 

But man, their maneuvering on draft night changed me. Imagine if they had just done that three years in a row up until the next free agent period for Luka. Imagine the amount of young talent there would be around here at that point, and imagine how much experience some of it would have by then. I have to believe that Luka is smart enough to see the wisdom in that approach, and think I would’ve tried to sell them on it. Who knows, maybe they did…

Don’t get me wrong – I am excited to watch these two new players with the team, and I do think they’ll make the team better.

(02-09-2024, 10:19 AM)Branduil Wrote: I could buy the dark horse argument if the Mavs had a real coach and not just the guy who works here