(05-16-2021, 06:32 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: KP/Powell -18 in 104 minutes -8.5per100

I think Powell is a better defender than Collins and KP/Powell lineups have a horrible 126.2 D-Rating.

(05-16-2021, 06:46 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Two thoughts...I think this line of thinking is too binary.  NBA offenses are more complex than that.

Second, I think the team would be worlds better if Powell could also do Maxi things and if Maxi could also do Powell things...no?  As it stands, no team covers Powell standing behind the 3 point line and no team expects Maxi to do anything but shoot a 3 and straight line dribble.  Imagine the possibilities if both could do everything the other can do.  Then add the stuff Collins can do that neither Powell nor Maxi can do.

(05-16-2021, 07:01 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: SOMEONE has to raise their hand to do the dirty work.

(05-16-2021, 07:01 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I DEFINITELY think the above is true. Sorry if what I articulated indicated something else. 

I'm just saying that Collins doesn't solve the KP problem. I think there is one, and you don't seem to feel that way. That's probably really the only source of disagreement.  

(05-16-2021, 07:19 PM)F Gump Wrote: Good point. And while not applicable to the question of Collins, it would be great if Josh Green's offense can catch up, so that he can be played more often as a dirty work guy. He seems to have the aptitude and some skill for the job.

(05-16-2021, 06:50 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Come on now.  At least post a GIF with a flashing yellow light and a sign that says (incredibly) Small Sample Size.!!!

(05-16-2021, 10:28 PM)mvossman Wrote: Yeah, way too small sample, but man it sure didn't get any better tonight.

Quote:Collins was born in Layton, Utah, to John Collins Jr. and Lyria Rissing-Collins. [...] He regularly played soccer as a teenager on his mother's military bases. He is a big Premier League football fan, and an avid supporter of London team Chelsea.[2]

(05-16-2021, 10:28 PM)mvossman Wrote: Yeah, way too small sample, but man it sure didn't get any better tonight.

(05-16-2021, 11:51 PM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: Let's just say the Mavs go all in on JC on the first hour of free agency and have him sign-up a few hours later. So how long would the Mavs wait until Atlanta matches? And if Atlanta does decide that they want to keep JC and takes their sweet time before finally matching, this does mean RH is scooped up by then.

You go after JC if your sources tell you, Hawks are likely to accept your offer, if not, just move along.

RH is the safer get. Give him 18/4 if you have to.

(05-16-2021, 10:38 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: For a variety of reasons, I'd like to start a John Collins thread.

1. Reporting we were interested in him at the TDL
2. Reporting we offered Maxi
3. Atlanta's seeming unwillingness to go beyond Jaylen Brown money
4. Schwartz

I'd like to concentrate here on the how since I wrote about the why in the Roster Thread (quick summary below):  

1.  Doesn't marginalize Brunson by adding another guard
2.  Provides an important role for Green (Defensive) by not adding another guard
3.  Is a significant upgrade from Maxi who can play next to KP or next to Powell/WCS because of his diverse skills
4.  Allows KP to play his preferred C position and still keep a second big on the floor
5.  Keeps a 20 a night big on the floor on nights KP sits
6.  Is a significant FA win and fulfills Donnie's prediction that outside shooting wings and PF's will want to play with Luka
7.  Lands what is arguably a third star

If you assume Kawhi and Chris Paul stay put, Collins is arguably the top of the 21 free agent class.  A number of teams with cap room need what he does...including Dallas.  I'd point out San Antonio, OKC, Charlotte and Miami.  Cleveland could get there by shipping off Nance for future picks to pair Collins with Jarrett Allen.  I'm leaving NY (Randall), Toronto (Siakam) and Memphis (JJJ) off this list, but they all have the room to do it also.  It is reasonable to argue Collins isn't worth a Max $28.1mm deal.  But reasonable isn't the GM for any NBA team with cap room.  Between SA and OKC, there is a pretty good chance someone will throw out the full max with the 4th year PO and a 15% trade kicker and up front payments (basically the worst thing possible for Atlanta to match).  

There are issues with all of those teams.  SA, OKC and Cleveland aren't very good and wouldn't be even with Collins.  Charlotte is on the rise, but Collins would play C there.  Plus, Charlotte would have to flush two Schwartz guys, Zeller and Monk, to create room.  Then you have Dallas and Miami...more attractive markets and more competitive rosters.  But, Collins is third fiddle on both.  Note that Collins went to HS in West Palm Beach.

There are two paths to Collins...make the offer and have him sign the offer sheet (at that point Atlanta is in control).  Or, negotiate a S&T before Collins signs an offer sheet with someone else.  You have to have the room to make the offer, so Dallas has to "renounce" Bird rights on THJ and JRich (assuming he opts out).  Miami has to "reject" the Team Option on Dragic.  I make the distinction because a team can un-renounce a player if things don't go their way.  I don't think Miami can "un-reject" its team option.  The other thing to bear in mind is the player has to want to go to a team to sign an offer sheet or agree to a S&T.  Atlanta is not in position to designate a preferred destination if they like Team A's S&T offer better than Team B's.  It is a game of chicken at that point.  Atlanta might love what OKC is offering in a S&T better than what Dallas is offering.  But they can't make Collins agree to go to OKC.  Atlanta's recourse is to say "go ahead and bring me an offer sheet", but with so many suitors, Collins (Schwartz) is likely to do so and then Atlanta is stuck.

Two other notes...because of the size of the raise, Collins has to go to a team with cap room (either buy signing the offer sheet or by S&T).  So, the list of suitors is finite.  Atlanta can't just say, man we'd look great if Boston would send us Jaylen Brown as BYC will kill that deal.  Second, I'm not sure the "they'll just sign him to trade him later" thing works necessarily.  A max for a guy who can't create his own shot is an over-pay and the overpay comes with unattractive features in the offer.  Plus, Atlanta has to take back $20-something million in salary.  They are probably better off taking what they can get in a S&T and keeping their powder dry.

I think Dallas and Miami are in the best position here.  Both can be contenders with that one more significant guy.  Dallas has the Schwartz connection and Miami has the home town thing.  It also helps that there are legitimate threats out there to deliver a max offer sheet if Atlanta doesn't negotiate a deal.  In a S&T situation, Dallas probably offers Maxi and Miami probably offers Achiuwa, who doesn't possess a 3 point shot at this point.  Miami can keep their holds on Robinson and Nunn, but not Dragic.  Dallas can probably retain THJ and WCS in a S&T with Maxi outgoing.  I don't know if Miami will prioritize Collins over a guard (they could sign Lowry outright and not send out Achiuwa).  But, I see them as a bigger threat than most of the other teams with room.  With that said, players like C. Wood and Grant opted for a bigger role on a bad team.

I think the play here is to "announce" agreement at 5:01 on 8/2, but not sign anything.  It can also work if another team "announces" agreement with Collins and Dallas then swoops in to save the day and provide Atlanta a S&T out before the agreement becomes a signed offer sheet.  If Dallas can do this as a Maxi based S&T, we are essentially moving on from JRich and Maxi in exchange for Collins.  That's quite a talent upgrade and Green can do a lot of what JRich does defensively.  The biggest issue appears to be defense, but Collins doesn't necessarily own that.  He's actually the sixth best PF in D-RPM this season if you trust that metric.  But, KP has to take some responsiblity for making this work.  He was once a good defender and suddenly wasn't.  Nothing says he can't suddenly regain that status.  If he could and if/when Green is ready to join DFS as a starter (does he really need to score on a unit with three 20-point scorers who can all hit from the outside?), this could be a good (not great) D and an historically good O.

(05-17-2021, 05:26 AM)Mapka Wrote: I think this ship has sailed and sunk at the trade-deadline.

With his caphold instead of his salary, we could have addressed the other issues of our roster.

At this point shuffling our bigs is a luxury we can't afford.
We need to keep THJ or have a replacement.
And we need to add a playmaker. If we dip into cap for anything else we failed.

(05-16-2021, 10:26 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: Collins is clearly the player to get. We already know the Mavs really wanted him. I just don’t see how that happens, realistically.

(05-17-2021, 07:25 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Among top 25 free agents, the players who (kind of) fit this are:

Norman Powell
Evan Fournier
Dennis Schroder

JRich opts in and WCS stays to play 2nd/3rd Center and we have about $20.6 to spend.  So, our offseason is THJ walks and we spend $20mm on Norman Powell.  If he stays in Portland, we offer the money to Fournier?  I'm OK with that as I see Powell as an upgrade (though I'd note there is very little Norman Powell buzz on this board).