(06-10-2021, 09:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I think JB will get MORE effective in the regular season with an increased role (to an extent), but in the elite speed and intensity of playoff basksetball he looked like he didn't have the physical tools to be on the court. I am not trying to "shock"....but I personally WAS shocked at how out of place he looked. Wasn't expecting it.

(06-10-2021, 07:31 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: What's crazy and a bit counterintuitive is the Mavs forced the Clippers to go small but that had the unfortunate side effect of rendering many of Dallas' best players unplayable too. 

KP couldn't guard the paint so Carlisle had to go big with Boban, WCS and a bit of Powell. That forced KP to forward who took Kleber's minutes. 

Then you had three Mavs who needed 40+ MIN 
- DFS, who Carlisle couldn't take off the floor. 
- THJ, because at least he had balls.
- Of course Luka 

In the end I certainly don't think Brunson, Kleber or JRich played great, but I don't think the loss is an indictment on them at all. It was all just matchups and the combined ripple effect of Luka dominating Beverly & Zubac and KP not being able to defend the rim.

(06-10-2021, 09:19 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I think Luka has three major issues:

1) His diet and conditioning. I think this is BY FAR his biggest issue and literally cost the Mavs the series against LAC. This is my biggest concern for his long term career. He can challenge MJ as best player ever IF he gets this together, if he doesn't his career could take a much lower trajectory.

2) Immaturity as a team leader. I talked a lot about this in Dec and Jan when the KP stuff and other on court chemistry started to lurk. Luka just doesn't quite know how to be the Alpha yet...I trust he will figure this out. 

3) Not having enough help from other guards. I think Luka needs more help from other guards to be able to spell him in the playoffs, BUT the greats can all produce 42-48 min nights in the playoffs and not lose a step.

(06-11-2021, 12:31 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: the domino effect of various primary adjustments, resulting in numerous players becoming unplayable/losing minutes, and others needing to play more and/or in different roles than was considered desirable at the outset. And ultimately turning into a systemic collapse.

(06-11-2021, 01:51 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: So in the end, a bunch of people on this board are going to call for the Mavs to trade everyone and rebuild the whole thing this this summer. It's tempting. But you can also make the case that they're really only 1-2 players away.

Help Wanted: a center who can defend the paint and a good 2nd fiddle guard/forward

(06-10-2021, 07:28 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: 1) Luka's body clearly has room for improvement.  He's a long way from the "cut" he could achieve and that's something very achievable for he and the coaches.  

Mostly though in the playoffs it was clear he didn't have enough Star level help.  In fact he had no star level help.  In one game he was criticized for playing too much hero ball, then the next he was criticized for passing too much even though he was being double and triple teamed.  

By Game 7 he had a big scoring game and he's help, KP and THJ got a good number looks up.  They cratered from the 3 point line while the opponent good looks and 20-10 3 point advantage for 30 insurmountable points of difference.  If Luka's teammates shot better and Mavs pull out the series, this whole thread discussion perspective is different. 

No mystery at all there.  The main Luka problem is not at all about Luka.  Doncic has some good players around him, but no All Star level support.  Was anyone even in consideration for an All Star berth outside of Doncic. 

(06-10-2021, 09:19 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I think Luka has three major issues:

1) His diet and conditioning. I think this is BY FAR his biggest issue and literally cost the Mavs the series against LAC. This is my biggest concern for his long term career. He can challenge MJ as best player ever IF he gets this together, if he doesn't his career could take a much lower trajectory.

Hopefully, he can be convinced of the importance of this. 

2) Immaturity as a team leader. I talked a lot about this in Dec and Jan when the KP stuff and other on court chemistry started to lurk. Luka just doesn't quite know how to be the Alpha yet...I trust he will figure this out. 

Yes, these big superstars all have to go through realizing they can't do it all themselves, and successfully incorporating their teammates. Luka's only 22. Agree that he will probably figure it out. 

3) Not having enough help from other guards. I think Luka needs more help from other guards to be able to spell him in the playoffs, BUT the greats can all produce 42-48 min nights in the playoffs and not lose a step.

Yes, when they can't even go for five minutes without bleeding points without him, the situation is untenable. They need a group who can at least hold down the fort for a few. 

(06-10-2021, 07:28 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: Hard to say here but my 2 cents is that Carlisle and Kristaps have to settle on a role that best maximizes his advantages. Is being Ultra tall and athletic with skill still an advantage in the NBA?  I think it can be.  

For a while, anyway. The ultra-tall component goes to durability. I saw some statistics not long ago on ultra-tall guys in the NBA. The takeaway was that those guys generally last only 5-6 seasons before they have to start missing a lot of games just to stay in the same place. Kris might already be at that point -- hope not, but it's undeniably an issue. 

1) KP has to shoot better, work on his shot over the offseason.  Outside 1st at the 3 point line he needs to be a 40% ish guy at volume and I have to believe he can refine at least a single shot or so in the paint and midrange.  
He shoots the Tim Duncan fundamental bank for example.  If he worked hard enough to be consistent with it then its a real weapon in the short and midrange. Look at Embiid in the midrange. Why couldn't KP do that.  No one can really bother it.

I am not sure the question is whether KP can't do that, or whether he won't. He appears to have a pretty crystallized idea of how he wants to play, and I just don't know how committed he really is to re-working his game. He is saying some of the right things, so maybe he is getting a sense of how important adaptability is. Agree that his shooting needs to be more consistent/varied.   

2) I thought Boban with KP was solid, even better than solid, and gave the Clippers the most problems.  Carlisle let them off the Hook because he didn't go with that when the games were really on the line.  He want back to his more standard rotations which I don't have a problem with except that they are not elite.  The shooters are streaky, not elite, not as good as the Clippers as we saw.  

A strong big skilled inside oriented Center worked better than small ball wings surrounding KP or KP at 5 with a meh PF next to him.  KP at 5 doesn't look like he's up for the intense physical challenge of constantly holding the boards and challenging consistently at the rim.  With a big 5 KP can come in now and then using his length as the secondary help. 

Agree that a big part of KP's issues seem like they have something to do with his lack of physical strength. In Dirk's first few years in the league, he had a similar issue with upper body strength. One would also think that he has a fear of getting hurt again, whether he is fully conscious of it or not. The brain has a reaction below the conscious level when the body faces a situation where it has been hurt before, and it takes disciplined training for the conscious brain to overcome that. I don't know whether that has been part of his routine or not. An additional issue would be whether muscling up would have adverse affects on his already limited mobility.  

That said, I get that Coach wants to play small, like all the coaches do.  Problem is are you going to have the best talent playing the same style as the top opponents?  Will your wings be better man for man than the elite wings of the top teams?   
If not then counter matching BIG talent that is undervalued may be the Mavs best bet.

If that is indeed the case at least part of the time, it seems like more focus on getting the BIG lineups sharpened up and in sync might be a bigger priority, going into a season where practice time will not be quite so limited. 

(06-10-2021, 09:24 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I think these are the issues with KP:

1) Attitude and chemistry. His heart was NOT in it this season anything like it was in his first year in DAL. I think he does not "fit" with Luka OR RC for whatever reason from an intangible standpoint.

2) Defense. I think his defense slipped this year because his heart wasn't in it. I think if his head space is off, then his D goes first.

3) Screening and Pick & Roll effectiveness. I also think this flows from the attitude/heart issues. I think he doesn't do the details well at all when his heart is not in it.

I do think KP is injury prone and has MAYBE lost some of his ability because of the knee injuries.....but I think his HEAD and HEART are the singular issue above all else. I do not think those will be fixed for him as a player in DAL. I think he needs to be traded ASAP.

(06-10-2021, 07:28 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: Don't know about the injuries.  It may just be that JR is at best an above replacement level wing, which may not be bad in your rotation at all IF the stars are there.  In Miami he looked like maybe he might be more.  In Philly he had stars to play off and he looked solid, not really great.  That may be where he lands. solid, not great but a lot better if you have your 1st 2nd and 3rd options in performing.

(06-10-2021, 09:26 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I do not think JR "fell off" one bit this year. I think RC's usage of him "fell off" (thank God!) but I think JR was the weakest link on this team for the whole year (even more than KP). 

He "fell off" in the sense that he went from starter to barely used in a very short time. Agree that he never met expectations. 

I do not think it was injury related, I just think he is not even an average NBA player. Though I have to give RC credit, that JR was MUCH more effective in the tiny role he gave him at the very end of the year.

If he is indeed just not very good, and that is not related to injury or illness, it would seem to indicate a substantial talent mis-evaluation by the front office. Is that what you believe occurred?

(06-10-2021, 07:28 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: Kleber having a tough year, from Covid on top of whatever else is undisclosed had a huge impact on the Mavs season coming up short of some expectations and on Luka having too much load.  
He has looked like a real up and coming bright spot at times but whatever the issues are Coach strongly alluded to   here's to hoping he gets full healthy and back on stride. Indeed.

(06-11-2021, 12:49 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: If he is indeed just not very good, and that is not related to injury or illness, it would seem to indicate a substantial talent mis-evaluation by the front office. Is that what you believe occurred?

(06-11-2021, 12:19 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: I am more worried that he has already entered a physical decline, despite being only 25.

(06-10-2021, 09:37 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Maxi was really poor most of the year. I don't know if he never recovered from COVID or if he just suddenly went "over the hill" in basketball years. He was REALLY disappointing as a defender this year and his O impact really slipped as well. I fear the Mavs might have missed their chance to "sell high" on him and that he will never really be a positive key rotation piece again. But maybe an offseason will get him back in stride.

(06-11-2021, 01:02 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I think the Mavs wanted three things in the JR trade:

1) An expiring contract to have cap room for this summer.

Do you think he will opt in, frustrating this objective?

2) The asset of #36 and what became TBey.

3) A chance to see if JR could have the impact he had in his last year in MIA. 

Iirc, they hyped him as an answer at the starting position, and not just as a guy they were taking a flyer on. I guess it's possible that was just PR, but I had the impression they were expecting more than they got. 


I think his last year in MIA has been shown to be an outlier. I think Spoelstra (one of the very best coaches in the league IMO) was able to get more out of JR than RC was. I also think that JR just massively overperformed that year and he is just regressing to the mean.

It is looking that way, I am sorry to say. 

(06-11-2021, 01:02 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I think his last year in MIA has been shown to be an outlier. I think Spoelstra (one of the very best coaches in the league IMO) was able to get more out of JR than RC was. I also think that JR just massively overperformed that year and he is just regressing to the mean.

(06-10-2021, 07:28 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: Brunson has been good, really good imo for all that could be expected.  Yeah he's not your star.  He's small so he needs some protection out there from bigs. The Clips were definitely a tough matchup with their big athletic wing version of 'small ball' still being too big unless the other positions and provide cover for Jalen. 

Mark Jackson comments that "you don't want to have to ask your backup singers to sing lead".  Brunson did so well as a backup singer that maybe people started expected him to be lead, to play at an All star level against All stars.  Brunson looks good enough to be exceptional with the right support around him.

(06-10-2021, 09:38 PM)Kammrath Wrote: I think Brunson hit his NBA ceiling really quickly and is basically already there. I think his lack of length and explosion have us looking at the best he will be. I hope I am wrong, but after this series I am not looking at him as a top playoff rotation guy.

(06-11-2021, 01:18 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: Do you think he will opt in, frustrating this objective?

(06-11-2021, 01:18 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: they hyped him as an answer at the starting position, and not just as a guy they were taking a flyer on. I guess it's possible that was just PR, but I had the impression they were expecting more than they got.