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RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - surfpuckmd - 10-14-2023
(10-14-2023, 09:00 PM)Jym Wrote: Kidd is gonna Kidd
I don't feel like there's an ounce of justification for anyone but Green starting and playing starter minutes the first 1 to 2 months of the season. At that point maybe consider someone else
It's absurd. I like DJJ but he's clearly doesn't even play the same position as Josh Green. He's also an inferior player to Josh Green especially offensively. Kidd believes he's a mastermind but he's really a manipulative jackass. I wouldn't be shocked to learn that Cuban suggested to Kidd that he try to devalue Josh Green somewhat given the current negotiations. After all, it worked so well with Christian Wood. What could go wrong? In reality, either THJ or Josh Green would be fine as the starting SF. Neither is perfect but both would be reasonable choices. Neither DJJ or OMax is a reasonable choice. Neither can handle the ball and neither is a decent 3-point shooter. They should clearly be power forwards on our roster. Kidd continues to become even worse with time.
Rick Carlisle may have been a hard-ass but he's an excellent coach who generally overachieved with his roster. We now have a coach who is both an asshole and incompetent. He also has an acknowledged history of hitting his wife. Jason Kidd was a terrible choice to become the Mavericks coach. He is, however, the coach that Mark Cuban deserves.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - Jym - 10-14-2023
(10-14-2023, 09:52 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: It's absurd. I like DJJ but he's clearly doesn't even play the same position as Josh Green. He's also an inferior player to Josh Green especially offensively. Kidd believes he's a mastermind but he's really a manipulative jackass. I wouldn't be shocked to learn that Cuban suggested to Kidd that he try to devalue Josh Green somewhat given the current negotiations. After all, it worked so well with Christian Wood. What could go wrong?
Rick Carlisle may have been a hard-ass but he's an excellent coach who generally overachieved with his roster. We now have a coach who is both an asshole and an incompetent coach. Also, he has an acknowledged history of hitting his wife. Jason Kidd is the coach that Mark Cuban deserves.
I really don't think either was any grand plan from Cuban
Pretty sure Kidd would throw blame at the MBT to the press if he was being asked to sit someone he was wanting to play
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - omahen - 10-15-2023
(10-14-2023, 05:11 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Interesting comments from Stein in this article. I assume from his podcast. A lot of smoke of the role they view best for Green imo.
https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-derrick-jones-jr-contention-starting-spot-luka-doncic-kyrie-irving
Perfectly agree with the comments about this article. This is just silly. DJJ is a career back-up and everyone can see why he is that. Nothing wrong with him, I like him and what he can bring in his role. But his role is not a starter. Opposing defense will have a field day with Mavs playing two non shooters, can't get much easier in todays basketball. Especially with the kind of offense Mavs run.
What the hell are Mavs doing here, is just beyond me. Looks like psychological games, perhaps with the goal to put a chip on Greens shoulder. But in my experience, these kind of things very often backfire.
Either commit to Green or trade him...
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - Mavs2021 - 10-15-2023
Instead of Over/Under Vegas should just offer odds on who requests a trade first between Luka, Kyrie, THJ and Green. Throw in a 1000/1 on Powell for shits and giggles.
Some young team with capspace will throw 68/4 at Green and the Mavs won´t match it. It´s so predictable.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - DanSchwartzgan - 10-15-2023
(10-15-2023, 05:00 AM)omahen Wrote: What the hell are Mavs doing here, is just beyond me. Looks like psychological games, perhaps with the goal to put a chip on Greens shoulder. But in my experience, these kind of things very often backfire.
Either commit to Green or trade him...
They are jacking with him to get his agent to agree to their terms. We'll see if this crap ends when either Green signs or the deadline passes. I've observed Dallas doing this before (making PT decisions designed to hold down player value in the marketplace). It is a stupid approach (especially with a player whose confidence is thought to be a critical component to his production).
Dallas needs him to come in at a certain number for their future plans and cap management. That number won't be realistic after a year of Green as a full-time starter. Of course, the other side of the coin is also true. Green needs a year as a full-time starter to maximize his value in the marketplace. That is the power they are wielding over him right now (or at least trying to).
Just do the damn deal Nico. We've seen how this ends with CAA clients.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - omahen - 10-15-2023
(10-15-2023, 09:28 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: They are jacking with him to get his agent to agree to their terms. We'll see if this crap ends when either Green signs or the deadline passes. I've observed Dallas doing this before (making PT decisions designed to hold down player value in the marketplace). It is a stupid approach (especially with a player whose confidence is thought to be a critical component to his production).
Dallas needs him to come in at a certain number for their future plans and cap management. That number won't be realistic after a year of Green as a full-time starter. Of course, the other side of the coin is also true. Green needs a year as a full-time starter to maximize his value in the marketplace. That is the power they are wielding over him right now (or at least trying to).
Just do the damn deal Nico. We've seen how this ends with CAA clients.
If that is what they are doing, it is not just stupid. It is beyond stupid. This is how you destroy relationships, not make them. It could also help explain why players don't really want to come to Dallas. If that approach sounds good to Mavs, I am sure there are many others "tricks" like that.
I have my doubts about Greens ceiling, but anyone with eyes can see he is the best option they have as a 5th starter. He is not stupid and his agents are not stupid. If they think reducing his PT will reduce his value, they are correct. But they are creating a lose-lose situation. Totally the same as with Wood.
Imho, there is only one way. Treat players fairly, help them in every possible way to become good players, show them you appreciate and value them. It will make them happy to stay. Who knows, perhaps some would even consider a paycut to stay. And if not, if cap limitations and team needs are different than players desire, they part ways as friends.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - ItsGoTime - 10-15-2023
If Green gets signed to a contract Dallas won’t match next offseason, I’m gonna be livid we didn’t use Josh in one of the trades he was rumored to be the lynchpin in.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 10-15-2023
This is so dumb at this point. Kidd sucks at his job.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - RoyTarpleysGhost - 10-15-2023
I said maybe a month ago: offer him the Grant Williams deal. If he doesn’t accept, look to trade him. Trying to alienate the player is the worst possible approach. Not only is he less likely to return but it also lowers his trade value.
I’m not a huge Green fan but this is just silly. He deserves a full time opportunity to prove himself.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - SleepingHero - 10-15-2023
I hate being a debbie downer but this might be the most depressing time since the 90s being a Mavs fan.
We have a generational player that Cuban yet again can't build around. I see where this train is going and I feel like I'm emotionally detaching to save myself from the hurt.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - surfpuckmd - 10-15-2023
(10-14-2023, 10:37 PM)Jym Wrote: I really don't think either was any grand plan from Cuban
Pretty sure Kidd would throw blame at the MBT to the press if he was being asked to sit someone he was wanting to play
It's hard to say how much of this is Cuban manipulation or JKidd idiocy. It's probably some combination of both. The reason I think it's not just Jason Kidd but also the Mavericks organization is because Josh Green is a wildly different type of player than Christian Wood. I can understand Kidd personally having a problem with Wood because of the lack of defensive effort and low-IQ decisions on the court.
Josh Green plays harder on defense than anyone else on this team. He's still young but already is a much better decision maker than Christian Wood on the court.
It's inconsistent that Kidd has a problem with players who:
1. Don't try on defense and do stupid things on the court (Christian Wood)
and,
2. Hustle constantly on defense and make good decisions on the court (Josh Green)
I'll give Kidd some credit in not being that stupid. I think the Maverick's organization is involved in devaluing Josh Green and consider this a smart strategy. Kidd would never disclose this to the media until he's fired. At that point, he would likely receive a large termination bonus from Cuban and would sign some non-disclosure agreements to keep this private.
(10-15-2023, 10:54 AM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: I said maybe a month ago: offer him the Grant Williams deal. If he doesn’t accept, look to trade him. Trying to alienate the player is the worst possible approach. Not only is he less likely to return but it also lowers his trade value.
I’m not a huge Green fan but this is just silly. He deserves a full time opportunity to prove himself.
It's complicated to love the team but really hate the coach and the organization. It's like an abusive relationship.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs waive Mike Miles, Jelly Walker, and Joe Wieskamp - Chicagojk - 10-15-2023
I think there is a legitimate case to be made that Green is best as a guy to bring off the bench at the 6-7 minute mark when the game is a little looser and faster at this stage of his career. Maybe he proves more than that given the opportunity. I think he should be starting with the current team. At this point though I am unsure if he is good enough to be starting for a contender. That is not a knock either.
I don’t think Jones jr is the answer. Neither is Hardaway. I want to see more of Exum. My thought is he would be better in a bench role as well…if he is even in the regular rotation. Kidd seems to like the wave of the second unit. It was a huge part of our conference final run that was led by Jalen. He may be trying to do the same thing here. Where Hardaway, Powell and Green play with Luka to finish the quarter and then Green pairs with Kyrie when Luka sits.The issue is I think Josh is the best player for that spot to stsrt. I hope they throw him out there and give him 30 minutes and see how he responds.
Long term though they may be looking for a higher quality wing. In and ideal world green, OMAx, Grant a Williams and x are your four guys. That fourth guy would ideally be 6’8 to 6’10 who could blend in if Grant Williams plays some small ball 5. That is my wish filling out the wings moving forward.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - The Jom - 10-15-2023
(10-15-2023, 09:28 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: They are jacking with him to get his agent to agree to their terms. We'll see if this crap ends when either Green signs or the deadline passes. I've observed Dallas doing this before (making PT decisions designed to hold down player value in the marketplace). It is a stupid approach (especially with a player whose confidence is thought to be a critical component to his production).
Dallas needs him to come in at a certain number for their future plans and cap management. That number won't be realistic after a year of Green as a full-time starter. Of course, the other side of the coin is also true. Green needs a year as a full-time starter to maximize his value in the marketplace. That is the power they are wielding over him right now (or at least trying to).
Just do the damn deal Nico. We've seen how this ends with CAA clients.
Agree this is what’s happening. Certainly there is motive, means and opportunity. Not convinced it’s more than talk though. And I’m not gonna hold it against em that they’re talking shit as long as Green starts once the regular season arrives. Josh’s agent is no doubt talking shit too.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs waive Mike Miles, Jelly Walker, and Joe Wieskamp - Ghost of Podkolzin - 10-16-2023
Just my periodic reminder that we could have Wood here at a huge discount, but Kidd is a complete incompetent asshole. It'd be kinda nice having an 18/10/2 big on the roster right now, huh? Most of y'all were Kidd apologists re: Wood. Now that it's leaking onto other players (like it did in BKN and MIL) are y'all going to keep apologizing for Kidd?
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs waive Mike Miles, Jelly Walker, and Joe Wieskamp - surfpuckmd - 10-16-2023
Question: Since 2007, how many players have the Mavericks drafted then signed to rookie extensions?
Answer: One. Luka, obviously.
I cannot imagine a better indicator for organizational incompetence than this statistic- we have signed our own draft pick to a rookie extension only once in the past 15 years. It is proof of our misuse of our own draft picks and also Mark Cuban's unwillingness to spend money to build our roster.
(I found the above fact on Mavs Moneyball)
Jason Kidd may be a terrible coach but Mark Cuban is even worse as an owner.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs waive Mike Miles, Jelly Walker, and Joe Wieskamp - The Jom - 10-16-2023
I get the Kidd complaints. It’s hard to take his side/defend his positions. Except when the other side is Christian Wood.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - mvossman - 10-16-2023
(10-15-2023, 02:03 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: It's complicated to love the team but really hate the coach and the organization. It's like an abusive relationship.
You just described my last 20 years of Cowboys fandom.
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs waive Mike Miles, Jelly Walker, and Joe Wieskamp - Ghost of Podkolzin - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 12:50 PM)The Jom Wrote: I get the Kidd complaints. It’s hard to take his side/defend his positions. Except when the other side is Christian Wood.
When Wood balls for LAL and Kidd overstays his welcome, are you going to stand by that?
RE: MAVS NEWS: Next Preseason game Saturday - OBX Maverick - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 01:10 PM)mvossman Wrote: You just described my last 20 years of Cowboys fandom.
20 years????? Let’s try 30! The Mavs’ managerial and roster incompetence pales to the sh*t show the Cowboys have been putting on!
RE: MAVS NEWS: Mavs waive Mike Miles, Jelly Walker, and Joe Wieskamp - DanSchwartzgan - 10-16-2023
(10-16-2023, 02:36 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: When Wood balls for LAL and Kidd overstays his welcome, are you going to stand by that?
Likewise, what has to happen for you to finally “give up the ghost” (see what I did there). If he’s a net negative again playing horrendous defense, will you find another scapegoat or will it finally be Wood who gets the blame for his own shortcomings?