(06-22-2024, 07:46 AM)JamesConway912 Wrote: On paper both PJ and Harris are PF/SF types but we’re not talking about 7ft behemoths as both are very mobile. I agree to the extent that the defense would suffer a bit but the offensive flow would also improve. I’d happily live with the tradeoff here.

Maybe I’m still underselling DJJ but I don’t quite think he’s good enough as a floor spacer here in the halfcourt. At least not until you get more shooting from somewhere else in the starting lineup.

(06-22-2024, 09:04 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: There is a clip of Jake Fisher telling Nate Duncan that he’s heard Dallas has a way of clearing room for Jones without using THJ or Maxi.  Duncan kind of talks over him and Jake doesn’t finish his thought on the clip I heard on X.  I think the insinuation is Green goes out to create the room for Jones Jr. (and brings back an asset).  Then, we are free to trade THJ or THJ/Maxi for someone.

I’ve already pointed out that Green fits neatly into the NT MLE which can be used for trades starting this summer.  Another way that this could happen is Green could be traded into a current TPE and it could happen in June as long as the TPE is big enough to defeat his PP status.  CBA Mavs wrote about trading Green’s PP contract for Mav’s Moneyball back in February.  He puts the number needed at $11.44mm (the average of Green’s 23/24 salary and all of his extension salary).

Currently, Atlanta, Brooklyn, Memphis and Washington have a TPE that large.  The one I find interesting is Washington.  They have a late first, a need for someone like Green and enough room to take him in without getting into the tax for 23/24.  They also have the 2nd pick, so trading #26 doesn’t mean they are going without a pick.  For Dallas, the deal is basically Green for #26 and Jones Jr. as the deal provides the pathway to keeping DJJ.

The salary for #26 is $2.6mm, so not really much more than filling a roster spot with a vet min (assuming you make the pick and keep it).  The pick could also be packaged with THJ (and 2025) in another deal to try to attract a starter that pushes Jones Jr. into Green’s bench role.  The moment we sign DJJ to more than $5.2mm, we are hard capped at the first apron.  So any THJ+ deal we make needs to have returning salary that is very close to the outgoing.  It doesn’t have to be less than 100% of the outgoing since we are already hard capped.  But, depending on what DJJ takes, we don’t have much room under the apron to work with.

(06-22-2024, 11:06 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: You guys remember the anonymous informant that called basically every summer move before it happened last year, droppingdimes?

Well he's back:

@droppingdimes50
Portland Trail Blazers and Dallas Mavericks are in the midst of trade negotiations.

(06-22-2024, 12:14 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: edit_ quick question...can you end up with the same result if it was Kuzma coming back rather than Grant?  I may be on an island and I am certainly not all in on Kuzma, but I think he would look pretty good with the rest of our team.  I would have some of the same questions I have with Grant too.

(06-22-2024, 08:06 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you used to say the same thing about Jones…that he was a four.  I had that conversation with someone a while back and I thought it was you.

(06-22-2024, 12:29 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Assuming that Grant is going to cost at least THJ + Green/Kleber + 1st I would rather have Thybulle. THJ for Thybulle is a legal trade. Mavs probably need to throw in all available seconds or a pick swap but I think in hindsight the Blazers wouldn't have matched the Mavs offer last summer. Would be happy to cash in on his remaining value.
Would clear space for DJJs contract and offer the opportunity to use Green/Hardy/1sts to search for another scorer/creator.

(06-22-2024, 10:06 AM)loki Wrote: If they can move Green for a pick, I'd be pretty happy to package that pick with THJ+Kleber+25 for Cam Johnson. I think he makes more sense than Grant as he would be willing to come off the bench and his contract doesn't hamstring you to the same degree.

Kyrie/Hardy
DJJ/Exum
Luka/Omax
PJ/Cam
Lively/Gafford

(06-22-2024, 12:41 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yeah, that was me, except that was a completely different situation. This was all part of the conversation that we had back then, but I will recap:

DJJ obviously has the body/athletic profile of a 3, but he had really never gotten a chance to play that position in his entire NBA career, and instead was relegated as basically a backup BIG (this is true). Seriously, he was being used as a screener off of the deep bench. Why? Because he could not shoot.

Now, that’s a completely different situation than the one we are talking about now. Drastically different.

What it took me all year to believe is that Jones was going to keep making his wide, wide, open shots from the perimeter. I never believed the sample size until he kept doing it in he playoffs. Basically, he finally found a way to stay on the floor at the three on offense, giving the world a chance to see his defense consistently. Kudos to him.
 
Having all just witnessed that, what is it that we are trying to improve upon with him right now? It’s still his shooting, because the same people who were arguing with me back then have now realized how important that is. In other words, he shot way, way better than I ever imagined he could, but it was STILL a problem for most people here. 

However, what is undeniably true is this: what worked for the Mavs is BOTH forwards having plus foot speed and athletic ability for their position. I knew Jones offered that, but I didn’t get excited about the signing because I didn’t think he would play (because of shooting). I was wrong about that, but so was the rest of the NBA, remember? He signed at the minimum like a week before training camp if I remember correctly. My take back then was that he had almost fallen out of the league because his offensive skillset only allowed him to be played out of position. Leading up to that time, that information was correct. That IS how he had been used in past. 

So, what has changed is that Jones has continued to improve his offensive skillset. 

What I am saying in the context of this current (Harris) conversation is that the forwards, especially with Luka at guard, need to be athletic pluses at their positions. In my opinion, BOTH of them need to be quicker, faster, and more athletic than Tobias Harris, but I think he’d be fine coming off the bench. Washington is quick and athletic, but not relative to Jones. However, he is stronger than Jones. 

They both need to be able to defend up in size. They both need to be able to defend down in size. But, you need a little bit of difference in those two guys so that you can extend the entire spectrum of matchups that are possible on either end. So, one of them needs to be able to defend more up in size than the other, and the other needs to be able to defend more down in size than the first one. to my mind, PJ and DJJ just accomplished this balance BEAUTIFULLY, and exactly the way I have been begging the Mavericks to try for literally over a decade now.

Some people look at Washington and think he is wanting for size, so they say “he must be able to play the three.“ While, that’s technically true, and you can put them out there at any position you wish relative to the other players, I have worked very hard to get past that type of thinking, as I believe it is extremely sophomoric and surface level analysis. I don’t think Washington is undersized at all, and when he goes up against slightly bigger players, I believe that is a huge advantage for him. I don’t believe he is really all that capable of playing small ball five, which is something I had hoped he would be able to do coming into his time here, but I think he is PERFECTLY suited as the 4. He is bigger than some of those matchups, not as big as others, but quicker and faster than almost all of them. That’s where you want your matchups to be.

Jones is special as the smaller, quicker forward spot (again, if he can shoot well enough to play at the same time as a center) because he is so much longer than 99% of the guys he’s going to match up with there. I think people see him shut people down in certain matchups and think it is ONLY his length making that possible, but his foot speed and agility are what puts the length in the right position. This is exceedingly rare in combination. I have tried like heck to think of someone who might be available who has some chance of replicating this, only with better shooting, and the only possible person I can think of is Jeremi Grant, who might need to play PJ’s role at this point, himself. 

While I was wrong about Jones’ shooting making him unplayable, I think the way those forwards played off of each other, defensively, pretty much proves the point I’m trying to make (and have for years). It was the best defense this team has had during the Luka era. 

So, I was wrong… But really, I was right. Different parts of the same conversation.

And for what it’s worth, I personally would not put it past Jones to improve as a shooter before next season. He certainly shot better this season than I ever thought he would. Given the choice between hoping that happens, or hoping some dude like Tobias Harris can keep up… I know which I would choose.

(06-22-2024, 12:21 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Just looked at Grant's stats, better three point percentage than I thought.  But wow, those rebounding numbers are awful for a PF.  Why is he such a poor rebounder? 3.5 rebounds last year in 33 minutes per game?

(06-22-2024, 09:30 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: BTW, for those wanting J. Grant, this could be a path to getting him without sending multiple guards to a guard heavy team.  Green to Washington for #26 as outlined.  THJ/Maxi/#26/2025 for Grant/#34/#40.  DJJ doesn’t quite get the full NT MLE here, but I don’t have my spreadsheet to plug in the numbers.

(06-22-2024, 12:41 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: DJJ obviously has the body/athletic profile of a 3, but he had really never gotten a chance to play that position in his entire NBA career, and instead was relegated as basically a backup BIG (this is true). Seriously, he was being used as a screener off of the deep bench. Why? Because he could not shoot.

(06-22-2024, 12:25 PM)mvossman Wrote: The difference is that Grant actually played high level defense when in that role where Kuz has never demonstrated he can play at that level.  He is definitely not as mobile/quick as Grant making a pairing with PJ more awkward.  Kuz island is a scary place to be.

(06-22-2024, 12:29 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Assuming that Grant is going to cost at least THJ + Green/Kleber + 1st I would rather have Thybulle. THJ for Thybulle is a legal trade. Mavs probably need to throw in all available seconds or a pick swap but I think in hindsight the Blazers wouldn't have matched the Mavs offer last summer. Would be happy to cash in on his remaining value.
Would clear space for DJJs contract and offer the opportunity to use Green/Hardy/1sts to search for another scorer/creator.

(06-22-2024, 01:19 PM)mvossman Wrote: Its interesting because during the regular season he only improved his 3 point shooting by roughly half a percent from the previous year.  He did raise his attempts per 36 by almost 50%, and he did shoot a little better in the playoffs (with less attempts per 36).  I do like that he has shown a small but steady improvement throughout his career.

I'm curious if this changes your views on Thybulle.  You had the opinion that he was also unplayable due to his limited shooting (and he does not have the alternative of playing like a big that DJJ does).  But the last two seasons Thybulle has taken more 3's per 36 at a better percentage than Derrick.  And that might have a bit of an uptick playing with Luka.  Given he is an elite perimeter defender are you more open to taking on that contract?  I kind of like Timmy + 2nd for Thybulle idea brought up, although I don't know if that is going to generate enough room for DJJ.