(10-14-2024, 11:18 AM)DL2RimRocker Wrote: If Nico can find a way to make Gafford happy being a 12 min backup and convince him to sign at a discount when Gaff is at his prime age of 28, I will be all in and will worship Nico for the rest of my life.

The only way I see Gafford resigning,  is if Kidd can find a way to play Lively and Gaff together for several minutes. I honestly think Lively has it in him to develop into a decent offensive weapon and his athleticism and length should allow him to be able to defend many PFs in the league.
One of the highlights of Lively's scouting reports before the draft was his unique ability to switch out on smaller players. I think Kidd should experiment a little with that if Lively develops some offensive skills.

(10-14-2024, 10:03 AM)michaeltex Wrote: We do realize this discussion is about depth and skill at a position that almost no other team has. Combined with a back court unique in their ability to positively leverage those skills, I suggest this is an anomaly in today's NBA that most opposing teams are not prepared to deal with.

This feels especially good for DAL since we have spend years wandering the center position wasteland looking for a solution.

I just want to enjoy the advantage for as long as we can.

(10-14-2024, 11:18 AM)DL2RimRocker Wrote: If Nico can find a way to make Gafford happy being a 12 min backup and convince him to sign at a discount when Gaff is at his prime age of 28, I will be all in and will worship Nico for the rest of my life.

(10-13-2024, 09:48 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Nothing would make me happier. Still have to have a rim-running center in the game every second that Luka plays.

(10-14-2024, 12:47 PM)F Gump Wrote: Yeah, I don't think that will have to even be a discussion, because I think those limits are a fantasy. There will be 2 spots that are closer to 1a and 1b, rather than only space for one center plus a few leftover scraps. That's how it works in today's NBA.

There are about 4000 minutes for center in an NBA season, and I think DL is probably a 2000/yr guy or so, like Tyson Chandler was. That leaves a significant chunk for another center. For reference, last season (most of which DL was the ONLY center), he played less than 1300, and only Doncic (2624) played more than the 2000 area.

(10-14-2024, 01:10 PM)mvossman Wrote: This is simply not true. Post KP trade our only playable centers for the rest of season and playoffs were Powell and Maxi.  The team went on a tear with the offense primarily operating in 5 out. 

More recently Lively missed several weeks late this last season. Gafford started but more often than not Maxi finished and the team again was very effective in 5 out. 

The reality is Luka needs space, whether it’s 5 out or 4 out with “vertical” spacing does not matter.

(10-14-2024, 05:47 PM)RGP1981 Wrote: That's true but ONLY if you look at this from a purely offensive point of view... what about defense? Especially when you consider Luka's flaws on defense.

Let's build that statement out further. Does Luka really need space, or does he need someone who can help create space for him by being a viable option that he can dish the ball to when he's being doubled? What if he had someone like Hakeem, who was not a threat from three but could do his own thing from elsewhere without help?

Also, why are you only asking about "post-KP"? KP is the 2nd best 5-out Center in the league after Wemby, isn't he? Has KP's game really changed that much compared to when he was at the Mavs... or does he just look better when he's playing next to 4 quality defenders, which the Mavs can never replicate with Luka and Kyrie as starters? 

More importantly, even if there were better 5-out Centers out there, the Mavs fecked up the first 5 years of Luka's time here by being so very bad strategically with trades and in the draft... therefore, your trade-cupboard is bare... and now, the new CBA is also there to consider... so they won't be able to trade for them and need to look at the next best cheapest option, which is a rim-protecting Center who can also help defend the perimeter... and who can do it for 48 minutes (so that Dwight the Blight doesn't see the court).

In posting this, I just realized something else... I've become a huge Caitlin Clark fan over this off-season. I really, really hope the Fever's Front Office doesn't become the next Cavs or Mavs and waste Caitlin's first 5-7 years in the league by doing as many stupid things. AFAIC, the Cavs and Mavs are the poster-childs for how to waste away the first years of a generational talent. The Mavs are obviously worse than the Cavs because they had more information available to them on the internet compared to when Lebron entered the league, and the Mavs also had the Cavs to use as example of what not to do but still did the same.

(10-14-2024, 05:52 PM)speedkilz88 Wrote: They better get Caitlin a bodyguard/enforcer.

(10-14-2024, 05:52 PM)speedkilz88 Wrote: RGP1981 Wrote:

That's true but ONLY if you look at this from a purely offensive point of view... what about defense? Especially when you consider Luka's flaws on defense.

Let's build that statement out further. Does Luka really need space, or does he need someone who can help create space for him by being a viable option that he can dish the ball to when he's being doubled? What if he had someone like Hakeem, who was not a threat from three but could do his own thing from elsewhere without help?

Also, why are you only asking about "post-KP"? KP is the 2nd best 5-out Center in the league after Wemby, isn't he? Has KP's game really changed that much compared to when he was at the Mavs... or does he just look better when he's playing next to 4 quality defenders, which the Mavs can never replicate with Luka and Kyrie as starters?

(10-14-2024, 12:15 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I hear you, but there are a lot more minutes than 12 for Gafford.  Try to look at it as total minutes available to a position (82 games x 48 minutes = 3,936 minutes).  Lively only played 1,293 minutes last year (55 games, 23.5 minutes), Gafford 1,816 (71 games, 24.5 minutes).  

If both Lively and Gafford play the same number of games at 28mins, the total minutes is 3,612, over 300 minutes left over.

(10-13-2024, 11:40 PM)F Gump Wrote: Yep. And I am not underselling Lively, ie this is not based on any doubts about his potential.

Just recognizing some realities. As in ...

1 There are challenges that exist when you are a slender guy who will often have to play against physical brutes. Play heavy minutes and you greatly increase your risk of injury (which we already saw, as he had MULTIPLE different injuries as a rookie that caused him to miss games). 

2 Tyson Chandler, a good comp, averaged 27 mpg.

3 Because of injuries, there will be games in which he logs 0 minutes of the 42-44, and games in which there will be 42-44 available (and he can't fill) because DG is dinged up.

4 Also, in that 42-44 mpg, I am only considering how to divvy the minutes as a center -- ie, if there's thought that Lively might have potential to do more than rim-run and rebound-defend, a la KG supposedly, then he would end up being used as a PF for some of the game. Maybe that happens, but it doesn't necessarily lengthen his minutes at C.

5 One issue that is completely overlooked re Lively is that he is AWFUL at FTs, and that is going to be an extra limiter on his minutes. You can't trust him to close games when Hack-A-Dereck is a possible way for a team to get an empty possession out of the Mavs. Gafford is not as bad, but also is bad, which makes it a thing that can impact C minutes.

(10-15-2024, 09:31 AM)The Jom Wrote: Those opinions are certainly reasonable. But imho you are predicting little to no growth from the 20-year old. He’s bad at FT’s now. He’s slender now. He commands 28 mins/night now. I do not expect those limits to last the season, let alone the next 2. He’s a 30-minute man very soon. Not advocating for a Gafford trade here. Just saying Lively is very good and improving.

(10-16-2024, 09:10 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: @matissa15
From what I’ve heard, it seems like the Kings are not done making moves after this Doug McDermott signing.

Zach LaVine or Brandon Ingram is still a goal of theirs.