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RE: Luka midrange game? - hakeemfan - 03-08-2020
(03-08-2020, 10:03 PM)dmavs4life03 Wrote: I dont think luka should be singled out here. when/if he adds the terry pull up with consistency, its gonna make him that much harder to defend. However as a team, besides Curry, we dont have consistent midrange bucket makers as our offense seems to be around 3s and dunks/layups or FTAs. This makes us a bit predictable against teams that study us and pack the paint while still being somewhat active on the perimeter. When a Mav drives into the paint, 9 times outta 10 its gonna be to pass out to the corners or wings for a 3PTA. And better teams plan for this and pick off the passes or force a rushed 3.
What if our "great offense" added some pull up plays where a screen is used by say WCS or Boban to get "insert player" a open midrange shot that they practice and knock down. Then also it can be played off for P&R/post ups in the paint and open up the 3 point line some. Some solid screens for Curry/KP/THJ/Brunson/Luka to get up shots w/ actual size on the wings would add to our"historic offense" and make it able to get a bucket when the whisles not blowing, the 3s aren't falling, and if the shot is missed, Boban/KP/Maxi/WCS can maybe get a O rebound or tipout or putback. The offense needs either some better screening for midrange or some post ups. That plus good defense wins tight playoff games.
One other wrinkle we could throw in there is what the Lakers were doing against the Bucks. They were having their bigs screen the other team’s shot blockers. They were not trying to score as much as give their wings a free path to the basket. While the game has changed, bigs can still be used creatively on offense as long as they can defend the perimeter.
RE: Luka midrange game? - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 03-08-2020
(03-08-2020, 07:11 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote:Old man yells at cloud.jpg.(03-08-2020, 06:53 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:(03-08-2020, 06:02 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: People should go back to the scouting reports or watch some of his older games in spain. He was a good midrange shooter but with the transition to the NBA he made adjustments to his game and abandoned it in favor of 3s, layups and floaters. Not a question about him being able to shoot it.
Him taking less midrange shots is part of the reason why he is more efficient this year. He reduced the volume even more compared to last year.
That’s why asked for some highlights. I did not see much.
Taking less mid range and more step back 3s which he shot poorly in Europe and here is not a way to increase efficiency.
For those saying that shot is dead tell that to Kawhi and Bron. If this is a conscious decision on Luka’s part then someone is not sitting down with him and showing him his poor 3 pt percentages.
Luka shooting 31.5% from 3 is more efficient than Kawhi shooting 43.7% from midrange. LBJ is shooting 36% from midrange.
Luka is a mediocre shooter. He needs to get better. Has fuck all to do with developing a midrange game.
Look at FT percent. Harden’s been over 85%. Luka is mid 70s. He’ll get there eventually.
RE: Luka midrange game? - hakeemfan - 03-08-2020
(03-08-2020, 11:07 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote:(03-08-2020, 07:11 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote:Old man yells at cloud.jpg.(03-08-2020, 06:53 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:(03-08-2020, 06:02 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: People should go back to the scouting reports or watch some of his older games in spain. He was a good midrange shooter but with the transition to the NBA he made adjustments to his game and abandoned it in favor of 3s, layups and floaters. Not a question about him being able to shoot it.
Him taking less midrange shots is part of the reason why he is more efficient this year. He reduced the volume even more compared to last year.
That’s why asked for some highlights. I did not see much.
Taking less mid range and more step back 3s which he shot poorly in Europe and here is not a way to increase efficiency.
For those saying that shot is dead tell that to Kawhi and Bron. If this is a conscious decision on Luka’s part then someone is not sitting down with him and showing him his poor 3 pt percentages.
Luka shooting 31.5% from 3 is more efficient than Kawhi shooting 43.7% from midrange. LBJ is shooting 36% from midrange.
Luka is a mediocre shooter. He needs to get better. Has fuck all to do with developing a midrange game.
Look at FT percent. Harden’s been over 85%. Luka is mid 70s. He’ll get there eventually.
Harden still struggles in the playoffs. If you don’t have variety to your game you will be exposed in the playoffs. Also Harden gets the calls in the regular season and it still dries up in the post season. Luka doesn’t even get those in the regular season.
RE: Luka midrange game? - Dundalis - 03-09-2020
(03-08-2020, 01:36 PM)hakeemfan Wrote: Does Luka have a midrange game? In the last game thread, dirkfansince1998 mentioned how Luka had a high percentage of those shots in Euroleague and it seems like a conscious decision not to do it in the NBA.
I looked at a few of his Euroleague highlights, and I see floaters and drives to the baskets, but not consistently seeing a drive, stop on a dime, rise up and hit a midrange shot like JeT and Dirk used to do. Again, my empirical evidence is small, and hence asking others.
If he doesn't have it, he needs to work on it. It's a much better option than the step back 3. His clutch numbers are very poor and IMO that's because a 3 and a call at the rim are both difficult to get in those situations. IMO, he has all the tools for a stop/pull up midrange shot. Look at the last 2 games where he drove back Holiday and Jackson. If he could consistenly hit a jumper off that move, then he becomes even more difficult to guard and can become a much more efficient scorer to add to all the other things he already does incredibly well.
Yeah, nah. His clutch numbers aren't good this year, but they were fantastic last year, so the mid range logic falls down. He needs to become a better shooter full stop. But mid range shooting would be at the bottom of the list in terms of priority. Number one would be 3 point shooting, and I don't mean step backs, I mean pull up and especially catch and shoot. Those numbers are horrid for someone with as good a stroke as he has. It's a big reason his 3pt % is so low, not his tendency to step back. Then FT shooting. Then floaters and finishing (despite how good he is at them already, teams will plan better for it moving forward and it's his bread and butter). Then mid range. Sorry, but Rick said it best. Mid range is the worst shot in basketball. If working on his mid range takes anything away from making his 3pt shooting and FT shooting better, then leave it. He will take them in practice still, but you will not see a spike in it regardless, primarily because he's likely being coached to treat them as poor shots. He will find more and more ways to consistently via craftiness get close enough to the basket to be in floater territory, or he will be a straight up better 3 pt shooter, to where he takes that more valuable shot instead.
If he's a better 3 pt shooter (high 30's minimum, which is where it should be) and better FT shooter (mid 80's is realistic), he will consistently be above 60% TS which would be record breaking for efficiency, like he was earlier in the season. His clutch shooting will be more towards where it was last year. Mid range won't matter.
(03-08-2020, 11:39 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:(03-08-2020, 11:07 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote:(03-08-2020, 07:11 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote:Old man yells at cloud.jpg.(03-08-2020, 06:53 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:(03-08-2020, 06:02 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: People should go back to the scouting reports or watch some of his older games in spain. He was a good midrange shooter but with the transition to the NBA he made adjustments to his game and abandoned it in favor of 3s, layups and floaters. Not a question about him being able to shoot it.
Him taking less midrange shots is part of the reason why he is more efficient this year. He reduced the volume even more compared to last year.
That’s why asked for some highlights. I did not see much.
Taking less mid range and more step back 3s which he shot poorly in Europe and here is not a way to increase efficiency.
For those saying that shot is dead tell that to Kawhi and Bron. If this is a conscious decision on Luka’s part then someone is not sitting down with him and showing him his poor 3 pt percentages.
Luka shooting 31.5% from 3 is more efficient than Kawhi shooting 43.7% from midrange. LBJ is shooting 36% from midrange.
Luka is a mediocre shooter. He needs to get better. Has fuck all to do with developing a midrange game.
Look at FT percent. Harden’s been over 85%. Luka is mid 70s. He’ll get there eventually.
Harden still struggles in the playoffs. If you don’t have variety to your game you will be exposed in the playoffs. Also Harden gets the calls in the regular season and it still dries up in the post season. Luka doesn’t even get those in the regular season.
He doesn't though, unless you compare him to his absurd regular season numbers and efficiency. Compare him to his peers, he doesn't struggle at all. The fact of the matter is, he's lost constantly to the most stacked team maybe in NBA history in GSW. The only other time in his prime with the Rockets he lost to a different playoff team than GSW was the Spurs, in the season where Kawhi genuinely announced himself as an NBA superstar. Also Luka has just as much Lebron to his game as he does Harden. It is NOT ISO ball with Luka like it is with Harden, there's a lot more team basketball, and that primarily because Luka is actually far more facilitating focused than Harden ever has been, despite that outlier 11 APG season Harden had few years back.
You wanna carry on about improvements for the playoffs, what will help the team even more than improving his shooting, is if he can become a league average or better defender. That will help him in the playoffs more than any offensive improvements. His defense detracts significantly from his overall value at this point, much more than one single aspect of offense, one that just isn't anywhere near as valuable as you make it out to be, and most of the league has figured that out already.
(03-08-2020, 10:04 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: The mid-range game is frowned upon in general among the NBA. It's silly but it is what it is. Players would rather take a contested stepback three over a wide open mid-range jumper.
Luka needs to figure something out though. After his stats overseas and two seasons in the NBA, it's looking more and more that he will never be a good 3-pt shooter in this league. Probably more in the mold of a Kobe/Iverson who will take a lot of threes despite being in the low 30%
That's stupid. You don't take the body of work of a 18-21 year old and say, this is what they will be. If he was 25-26, sure. It doesn't matter than he's been playing pro ball for a few years, his age and with that his physical and mental development as a player are still in ascendancy and are more important factors than a few extra years of pro ball compared to his peers.
RE: Luka midrange game? - hakeemfan - 03-09-2020
Dundalis Yes his defense needs improvement but if his focus is on offense right now and his go to shot, even with expending little energy on defense, is yielding a poor percentage, then he has to rethink his go to shot.
GS has been clearly the best team in the West but the West is more stacked now. Kawhi, PG, Bron all will now do the same thing GS did and they have even more respect from the refs. You think his drives are going to yield calls? If your game is 3 or drive, you better be hitting those 3s.
There have been 2-3 players in the history of the game who have dribbled around the perimeter specifically looking for a 3. It is such a limited set because it is an extremely difficult thing to do. Luka has not shown either in Europe or here that he should be a player doing that. I definitely don’t think he is a poor shooter. His catch and shoot numbers are solid from 3. I have never advocated him to become a DeRozan or a TJ Warren. But he does need a counter, be it off a post up or a pull up midrange, to have something else in his arsenal apart from 3s and drives. I do feel though that the dribble,dribble step back 3 has to go away...at least until he shows he can hit it at a high percentage.
RE: Luka midrange game? - bartlettbear - 03-09-2020
Contested 2 vs and wide open 2 from 12-16 feet is huge difference in % made,
a long 2 as always been a bad shot since the three point shot came into existence
What Luka needs to develop at end of games is a post game and RC need to feed him the ball to get easy basket at then end of games it is how basketball is won and it will always be the best way to win games at the end of the games especially have a passer like Luka.
Luka on left block Curry making entry pass from left corner, KP at foul line extended on right side , Hardaway at top of key finding open spot , DFS in opposite corner, double comes most likely from DFS man, Luka can either skip to DFS or DFS can set a back screen on KP and KP can then dive into opposite block for a easy basket. Next rotation would be off of Hardaway who then who be wide open either left or right wing depending.
Pretty much an unguarded set and you can replace Maxi and DFS.
But RC is too stubborn to play through Luka in post at end of games.
RE: Luka midrange game? - bartlettbear - 03-11-2020
Mavs ran a similar set to this except they had no one strong side make entry pass to Luka, thus not enough spacing for KP dive to basket if double team came from DFS , Luka kicked to him in opposite corner and he then made pass to Hardaway who missed,
Mavs got a good look and 3 guys touched the ball , did not happen again, hopefully RC wise up and does it come play off time, it was clearly one of there better possessions in the 4th quarter
RE: Luka midrange game? - Benskix2 - 03-11-2020
Variety is necessary to keep the defense from sitting on your spots.
I guess the question is is Luka shooting 3s poorly in the clutch because the defense knows he's going to shoot 3s and they are defending him well, or is he shooting poorly because he's just not that good of a shooter and it's catching up to him.
Given his overall percentage the second option seems unlikely. Maybe it's just a mental thing at the end of games for hm now, but regardless of the cause in the short term I think he and the team would be better served by him making more of an effort to break down the defense and find a higher percentage shot for himself or a teammate rather than continuing to do something that clearly isn't working at the end of games.