(08-13-2024, 03:48 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I wonder if Klay gets moved to the PJ role to close games, and PJ gets sit for another guy like Marshall or Grimes.

(08-13-2024, 04:30 PM)F Gump Wrote: Is there a solution where Kyrie comes off the bench? If so, you can stagger Luka-Klay-Kyrie in pairs, and then use the 3 as your point of attack defender. That could be Naji, Grimes, or Exum, whichever is most effective against the player in question while also hopefully contributing to the offense as well.

(08-13-2024, 02:48 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm guessing Din/Exum (offense/defense) will be the primary backups to Luka/Kyrie (with the ideal of keeping two creators on the floor).  Both Naji and Grimes can backup Klay trading offense for defense.  

Why do we need to backup PJ with a center?  Last season we used DJJ at backup 4 (especially when Maxi was out).  Naji is more suited to defend the 4 than DJJ is.  Who is these backup 4s we are worried about?

(08-13-2024, 02:48 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm guessing Din/Exum (offense/defense) will be the primary backups to Luka/Kyrie (with the ideal of keeping two creators on the floor).  Both Naji and Grimes can backup Klay trading offense for defense.  

Why do we need to backup PJ with a center?  Last season we used DJJ at backup 4 (especially when Maxi was out).  Naji is more suited to defend the 4 than DJJ is.  Who is these backup 4s we are worried about?

(08-13-2024, 06:43 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: I just want to say how much I appreciate you mentioning Spencer Dinwiddie in this thread.

(08-13-2024, 04:30 PM)F Gump Wrote: Is there a solution where Kyrie comes off the bench? If so, you can stagger Luka-Klay-Kyrie in pairs, and then use the 3 as your point of attack defender. That could be Naji, Grimes, or Exum, whichever is most effective against the player in question while also hopefully contributing to the offense as well.

(08-13-2024, 06:18 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I think the defensive matchups would better dictate the first guard off the bench.  I really like Grimes in that role, even with only one distributor on the floor.

Z.Collins plays way more PF than C.  He's a good defender and a really good 3pt shooter.  He's not a switching defender, but other than that a great stretch big in the rotation.  This wouldn't be replacing DJJ, it'd be replacing Maxi.

(08-14-2024, 09:14 AM)mvossman Wrote: Hard to see that because Kyrie is a much better player than those guys.  I can see the move from Klay to one of those guys because the drop off is not as much (especially when taking into account potential age decline) and the fit makes more sense, but nobody brings a top 30 player off the bench.

(08-14-2024, 09:24 AM)mvossman Wrote: I don't want to get in a drawn out discussion about Zach Collins, but he is a low volume 3 point shooter who just shot 32% and is 33.6% for his career.  That is not a really good three point shooter.

(08-14-2024, 11:28 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: He's averaged the league average of 37% twice.  Yes, 32% last year, but that's without ANY PG play.  He's a catch and shoot shooter, not a creator of his own shot.  Put him on this team and he'll average well over Maxi's 34% last year.

I'm proposing ZCollins as a Maxi replacement.  I'd take his slightly less 3pt volume and efficiency Z.Collins' average of 1,485 minutes the last two years (37% of minutes available for a position), versus Maxi's 907 minutes (23%).  That's over 50% more availability.

(08-14-2024, 11:04 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I can see Naji or Grimes starting over Klay, Klay being the 6th man.  I hope not, but that's the one spot in the starting lineup where I can see more defense is definitely needed.

(08-18-2024, 09:00 PM)Dundalis Wrote: Did Collins learn how to defend?

(08-18-2024, 11:48 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: Klay is absolutely going to start. That's 100% been guaranteed to him. He didn't come here to be a 6th man.

(08-19-2024, 10:30 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: He came off the bench 14 games last year.  I hope I'm wrong, because I want Klay to ball out, but if he hits a rough patch, he'll be coming off the bench.

(08-19-2024, 10:10 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: He came off the bench less because of Klay's ability and more because of the limitations on the Warriors roster as a whole and Kerr was trying things out. 

Their team had 1 guy over 6'9 (and it was Saric who is a perimeter big) and they suffered because of it. They basically had 6 combo guards and 6 tweener wings with Kevon Looney+Jackson-Davis+Saric manning the middle. That ain't going to cut it. Their bench lacked any consistent shooting and whenever Steph went to the bench the Warriors line-ups collapsed. Kerr tried tinkering the entire year to find any sort of consistent combination that had the starting lineup and bench happy while managing the egos. 


So if you were Kerr, who would you replace out of Steph/Klay/Wiggins/Dray/Looney ? Saric doesn't really fix their issues. Wiggins was replaced for Kuminga in December and it didn't really work. Draymond was suspended from December till January (during which Kuminga+Wiggins started and the Warriors went 7-8). 

In February the ONLY combination that Kerr had never tried was messing with the big 3 and Klay was the most expendable given they had a young rookie that could replicate some of what Klay can provide (but not nearly the same, hence why bench lineups collapsed). So Kerr tried it and what happened? Well the Warriors went 5-1 to start (3 of those wins came against CHA, WAS, and LAL). Then went 4-4 in the rest of those games Klay didn't start. Total of 8-6 with Klay off the bench vs. 33-30 in games he started. Not a huge difference at all. 


Point is, Klay has taken a step back, but he hasn't fallen off a cliff. Kerr tried to bring him off the bench to save a tumultuous season and it didn't have any meaningful impact. Their roster was flawed and couldn't survive Draymond Green being suspended a month and a half from his own ineptitude.

(08-20-2024, 10:43 AM)mvossman Wrote: I don't think Klay has fallen off a cliff and I think he is easily a top 5 player on this roster, but I can see the fit argument that it might make sense to bring him off the bench.  But I don't see that playing out in the regular season.  This is a much better, deeper team than GS and can probably withstand a minor fit issue in the starting lineup for 5 or 10 minutes a game.  It will potentially be another conversation come playoff time, but we have a long time before we need to worry about that.

(08-21-2024, 09:40 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I think Din will need to beat out Exum.  He will need to prove he can still be the '21 player.  If he does, I expect he plays more minutes than we expect.  He was not good last year.  The Nets fans thought he quit on the team and was not good anyway.  He also wasn't good with the Lakers and failed to find a productive role.  Buyout players fits can be tricky in a tight window to end the season but there was probably a bigger role for him there but he failed to capitalize on it.    Then this summer it appears there were not many suitors, if any, above the minimum.  Other players got caught in this as well where money dried up, but regardless is it not a good place for a guy who still should be near his prime years. 

The mavs finished the year so hot last year.  Having Kyrie healthy during this stretch was one of the big reasons for this hot stretch.  Mavs really had to grind during this stretch and found ways to keep on winning games.  Looking at Kyrie history, you probably need to factor in 50-55 games from him.    If you get more....great, but he seems to get things that makes him miss games during the season.  I think the Mavs did a good job looking to protect themselves when Kyrie is out.  The West is brutal.  You need to find ways to keep your head above water when one of your better player missing 10 games in a row.

It is now up to Din to prove he can beat out Exum and also show he can still get to the level that he was with at the Mavs.  He time before the Mavs and after Mavs have not been very promising.

(08-21-2024, 01:12 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I agree.  I think with Din now on the roster, Exum will get more minutes at SF.  I have him getting 594 minutes at PG and 396 minutes at SF.