(04-06-2021, 03:16 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve seen it said twice now (not sure if you said it before), but the NO coach is Stan Van Gundy, not Jeff who has said he’s not gonna go back to coaching. It’s not a big deal, just has made me pause to make sure I wasn’t remembering incorrectly.
Haha yeah, I read that and thought “are they commenting on my post in another thread about how I don’t like JVG...?”
(04-06-2021, 02:21 PM)soog Wrote: [ -> ]So let’s get one thing straight - Nico hasn’t come a long way since joining the Mavs. This is like everyone who was surprised by how good Luka is because his accolades in Europe meant nothing to them. Nico is a seasoned vet who played a significant roll on a team that won and regularly competed for the Euroleague championship.
If anything, his time in NO should be the anomaly.
No disrespect to the Euro league or Nico here. I said he's come long way in short time from a guy who many considered a salary matching throw-in in a trade for JJ Redick. That's how far he's come in the minds of Media and Fans.
Right away he got minutes and showed that he intends to be more than a throw-in while the Mavs wait for JJR. That's to his credit because plenty of guys have games that work in the Euro league but not so much in the NBA.
Well, tonight he turned Olynyk into Moses Malone and he still can’t score. I’d say the jury is still out on whether he can be a rotation quality player.
(04-07-2021, 09:29 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: [ -> ]Well, tonight he turned Olynyk into Moses Malone and he still can’t score. I’d say the jury is still out on whether he can be a rotation quality player.
He was the ONLY starter in the positive at +2.....Melli was not even CLOSE to the issue tonight.
(04-07-2021, 09:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]He was the ONLY starter in the positive at +2.....Melli was not even CLOSE to the issue tonight.
Defense is on another level when he is on the floor but he needs to find a way to contribute on offense.
(04-07-2021, 09:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]He was the ONLY starter in the positive at +2.....Melli was not even CLOSE to the issue tonight.
Teams are going to catch on that we are playing 4v5 on the offensive end when Meli is on the floor.
(04-07-2021, 09:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Melli was not even CLOSE to the issue tonight.
Of course he was. He was not the main reason, but his total inability to score is definitely hurting the team. Playing 4 on 5 most of the time. After Houston realized how cold are Mavs from three, the paint was always packed with three players.
I really wish we would stop using team indexes to describe individual performances... Josh Green was +1, so he was obviously third best player behind Powell and Melli...
(04-07-2021, 09:42 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I really wish we would stop using team indexes to describe individual performances... Josh Green was +1, so he was obviously third best player behind Powell and Melli...
Get out here with this straw man junk.
1) Melli as an INDIVIDUAL was +2. That is NOT a team number, that is HIS number and his alone. He played 24 minutes and was the only starter in the positive. That is a significant indication of his impact on the team's performance. Obviously he played with 4 other guys and against 5 other guys, so there are many variables....but this is a fact: The Mavs outscored the Rockets when Melli played tonight. And on a night when they lost by 9 that points to him being far from a cause of the team losing.
2) Green played 3 minutes. THREE.
(04-07-2021, 09:48 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Get out here with this straw man junk.
Really nice behaviour...
(04-07-2021, 09:48 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Melli as an INDIVIDUAL was +2. That is NOT a team number, that is HIS number and his alone. He played 24 minutes and was the only starter in the positive. That is a significant indication of his impact on the team's performance. Obviously he played with 4 other guys and against 5 other guys, so there are many variables
You basically said it yourself. +- is a team stat. All 5 guys contributed to that +2 when Melli was on court. Many variables. Melli scored 0 points and had 3 rebounds. Olynik had 18 rebounds.
The analytics war is real. I think stats are valuable and all but basketball is more than just stats. I'm not trying to pick on Meli here but if your offense is so bad that you can be ignored, that's let's defenses make life harder on the other four guys and if some of those other four guys specialty is offense and not defense, that's going to drag their +/- down when sharing the floor with Meli.
For the record, I don't think Meli was the issue tonight. Luka was bad. JRich was bad. Defense as a whole was bad. We also lost the battle on the boards.
(04-07-2021, 09:59 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]You basically said it yourself. +- is a team stat
Every single stat in basketball is actually a TEAM stat because basketball is 100% a TEAM sport.
FACTS:
1) The TEAM was +2 in 24 minutes when Melli played....and the TEAM was -11 in 24 minutes when Melli was on the bench.
2) Melli and his play was PART of the team's best success tonight.
3) The team played very poorly against one of the worst team's in the NBA when Melli wasn't playing.
4) The team was much better tonight when Melli played than when he sat.
Whether Melli had a good game or not tonight, in general he needs to score more consistently. Else he is just a last min throw in to make a deal work who doesn’t have a future here.
(04-07-2021, 10:21 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: [ -> ]Whether Melli had a good game or not tonight, in general he needs to score more consistently. Else he is just a last min throw in to make a deal work who doesn’t have a future here.
He's been a fun story and all but it also shows how short the Mavs bench is when he can earn so many minutes. I've said it a few times before, but he'll be unplayable in the playoffs because of the point you laid out.
JFC with the single game plus minus. There's way too much noise in that stat for it to be meaningful over a single game. Every damn thread.
(04-07-2021, 10:17 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Every single stat in basketball is actually a TEAM stat because basketball is 100% a TEAM sport.
Not true at all. Points, rebounds, assists, steals, turnovers, blocks are all individual stats, just to name a few. The player is responsible for them.
(04-07-2021, 10:17 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]FACTS:
1) The TEAM was +2 in 24 minutes when Melli played....and the TEAM was -11 in 24 minutes when Melli was on the bench.
Which is no proof that Melli was the main reason team was +2 in those 25 minutes he was on the floor nor that Melli abscence was the main reason team was -11 when he was on the bench. It is totally possible and common that a player as individual plays like crap but the other four play great, or opponent goes cold in that stretch. Melli individual stats and eye test might be a better indication he didn't really play well tonight.
To be specific about tonight - Melli got "his" +2 because he was on the floor when Mavs made that run in the first half of the fourth quarter. Powell earned "his" +8 in this stretch. These were minutes when Houston played mostly bench guys. That bench group was negative as a unit both times they came on the floor. Mavs earned most of the points with consequitive THJ 3 pointer and 2 Houston shooting fouls on Mavs three point shots, resulting in 8 quick points (Brunson missed one). Mavs were 16-9 in this stretch.
No need to shed any blood over Melli. He has already outperformed the expectations. If he can find some kind of role on offense he would be even better but I don´t think he is worse than Iwundu or Johnson (that´s the comparisation). Basically what Johnson was supposed to be. Nothing more nothing less. Defense, rebounding, passing, good screens and hustle. Not a scorer. Not a big problem if the four guys that share the floor with him can score but next to Richardson, DFS, Maxi or Powell it can get ugly.
(04-07-2021, 10:39 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Not true at all. Points, rebounds, assists, steals, turnovers, blocks are all individual stats, just to name a few. The player is responsible for them.
100% FALSE.
Every rebound is grabbed in a TEAM context and no rebound can be grabbed without nine other players having an impact on whether it is grabbed.
Every shot is made in a TEAM context and no shot is made or missed without nine other players having an impact on the context of that shot.
Etc. Etc.
+/- is NO DIFFERENT than any other stat, it is ultimately a look at an individual within a TEAM context. Like every other stat in basketball because it is a team game.
(04-07-2021, 10:36 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]FC with the single game plus minus. There's way too much noise in that stat for it to be meaningful over a single game. Every damn thread.
Then we should stop talking about every other stat in basketball, they are ALL team dependent.
If you don't want to talk stats that is fine, but the dumping on +/- is ridiculous.
RE: Olynyk having 18 rebounds
Referencing THIS stat as some sort of indicator is the EXACT same as referencing Melli's +2. They are both individual single game stats in a TEAM context. If we can talk about the 18 rebounds then we can talk about the +2. There is no difference. The 18 rebounds is indeed "noisy" for Olynyk but it is STILL a reality.
(04-07-2021, 10:58 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]100% FALSE.
Every rebound is grabbed in a TEAM context and no rebound can be grabbed without nine other players having an impact on whether it is grabbed.
Every shot is made in a TEAM context and no shot is made or missed without nine other players having an impact on the context of that shot.
Etc. Etc.
+/- is NO DIFFERENT than any other stat, it is ultimately a look at an individual within a TEAM context. Like every other stat in basketball because it is a team game.
I see there is no point arguing with you. I have a completely different opinion and I find it totally clear some stats are individual and some team based. Melli scored those two points by himself. Melli didn't create +2 by himself but is a result of 4 teammates playing against 5 opponents.