MavsBoard

Brad Townsend says this is one of the biggest questions heading into the season:

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/maveri...questions/

What position will Porzingiz play?

Quote:Yet when Powell got hurt and Porzingis moved to starting center, it was as if a switch flipped on. Beginning on Jan. 31, over his final 21 regular-season games, Porzingis averaged 26.7 points, 10.5 rebounds, 2.1 blocks and 46.8% shooting — including 36.8% on 3-point attempts.

In six seeding games in the Orlando bubble, Porzingis averaged 30.5 points and 9.5 rebounds and was named first team All-Seeding, along with Luka Doncic.

Given such production, it seems clear that in Dallas’ offense, Porzingis is most effective at center. So, however, is Powell, whose well-timed and precisely angled screens create open shots and driving lanes for Doncic — and lob opportunities for Powell.

At the time of his injury Powell was averaging 9.4 points, 5.7 rebounds and 63.8%. Don’t compare his stats to those of Porzingis. It’s apples-to-oranges. Powell’s presence makes life easier for Doncic, especially, and everyone else on the court. And Powell doesn’t demand shots. He attempted 5.7 per game last season.

Here’s where we’ll drop in a surprising statistic to ponder: Did you know that Dallas’ most effective starting lineup of more than three games was Doncic, Tim Hardaway, Dorian Finney-Smith, Porzingis at power forward and Powell at center, with a record of 11-5 (.688)?

Could Porzingis or Powell move to power forward this season? Theoretically, yes, but is that optimal for either player, or the Mavericks? Might it be better, for example, for Powell to come off the bench?

Something, or someone, might need to give.

I would add these stats for pondering:

Porzingis @ C + DFS @ PF: 
Offense: 115.4
Defense: 109.3
Net: +6.1

Porzingis @ PF + Powell @ C:
Offense: 117.1
Defense: 105.3 
Net: +11.9

Porzingis @ PF + Boban @ C:
Offense: 107.3
Defense: 96.5
Net: +10.8

Porzingis was individually better on offense without Powell (no question)....but the TEAM was better both offensively and defensively with Porzingis @ PF. I am hopeful that Porzingis is in his offensive groove now and that he can play BOTH PF and C. 

I voted "center only" because I Interpreted "both" to mean significant minutes at both. I think he'll play mostly center and a little with a center. Really, to say that he'd only play in "1 big" lineups is to say he'll never play with DP, Maxi or Bobi, and that's not a reasonable claim.

Here's my assertion with a caveat: KP will play mostly center in 1-big lineups unless the Luka, DP, KP lineup, when tried, sets the world on fire and KP flourishes.

He'll play both, situationally, but over 50%, probably more like 75%, will be at C.

Both, with C minutes being more most likely

Good topic and well framed, Kam. I agree with Brad that joe all these pieces fit together, especially a healthy KP and DP, is a huge and important question.

I think far too much is made of the position, when the argument is really “one big vs. two.“

I think it’s extremely clear that the Mavericks need to have options in place that allow them to go in either one of those directions during stretches of the game. But, in terms of reaching the point where five or six players are paid more than the rest… In other words, reaching the point where you have adequately planned for the closing lineup you will use MOST OFTEN, I am of the opinion that KP’s strengths are best used and his weaknesses best covered in a ONE big lineup. 

Basically, I think the Jeremi Grant, OPJ guy is more expensive and harder to find than the Powell, WCS, Capella type. I also think the deeper you go in the playoffs, the more likely it is that the second type of player will be less useful to you. For those reasons, I prefer the financial and status hierarchy of the team be built with the first type in mind.

Having said all of that, I totally admit that we do not have enough evidence yet to understand which way the Mavericks brass would lean if we got them to answer this question.

When he plays with Maxi or Johnson he's the center for sure. Maxi and James will be like big wings in those lineups. With DP, you could still call KP the center, but maybe it's a little more ambiguous since DP will be the roll man and isn't great at guarding the perimeter. But KP will still be the rim protector. The only time KP is obviously the 4 is when he plays with Boban, but that's rare.

I may be doing too much here to make this semantics. Is it ever a "1 big" lineup when he plays with Maxi or Johnson, since those guys can cover big wings? I definitely think he'll play with those two.

The biggest question, I think, is what happens with DP, his health and his fit with KP. Will we see a return of a heavy dose of DP/Maxi? Will KP/DP work so well that it becomes a staple? Can't wait to find out.

I think KP at the 5 will yield the best results in the long term. 

His best +/- lineup was when he was the 5 with Brunson/THJ/DFS/Kleber/KP. It was +23.6 with 81 minutes played. The 3rd most played lineup. 

I think KP is versatile enough to be played at the 4 or 5, and I won't object that him playing some 4 will be good for the offense for variation (and as long as he's next to the right center!). But overall, KP is most effective at the 5, and with a fully healthy team I believe that will yield the most results.

(11-28-2020, 01:51 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]When he plays with Maxi or Johnson he's the center for sure. Maxi and James will be like big wings in those lineups. With DP, you could still call KP the center, but maybe it's a little more ambiguous since DP will be the roll man and isn't great at guarding the perimeter. But KP will still be the rim protector.  The only time KP is obviously the 4 is when he plays with Boban, but that's rare.

I may be doing too much here to make this semantics. Is it ever a "1 big" lineup when he plays with Maxi or Johnson, since those guys can cover big wings? I definitely think he'll play with those two.

The biggest question, I think, is what happens with DP, his health and his fit with KP. Will we see a return of a heavy dose of DP/Maxi? Will KP/DP work so well that it becomes a staple? Can't wait to find out.

yeah, if you want to get mired down in the semantics of it all, I believe that when KP plays with Powell, KP is the 4 on offense and the 5 on defense. 

but again, I don’t think it really matters. You can send Porzingis out there to play the 2, if you want to, but the other team is still going to target him in the pick and roll game. There is no lineup where he can be hidden from that. As long as he is a maverick, he will always be the slowest player they have on the court (Except Boban, who is clearly not a player who can be played with KP).

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Another reason I like KP on the floor without Powell a little better is that I have a hard time feeling like it’s smart to pay a max contract to a guy who is literally just spacing the floor. In that role Porzingis might be the absolute best in the business, and we did just see Bertans get PAID to do that (gives us an idea of what to expect on Kleber’s next deal, tbh) but idk...I just have higher hopes for KP. I want him more involved in the offense than that, personally. At least, as a default.

So just like the Mavs offseason, I am ALL about....




With that in mind I think the Mavs BEST D is with KP being one of TWO BIGS (so far in his time both in NYK and DAL KP's teams have always been better on D when he has another big with him). 


So I am....

1) 100% in on the TWO BIGS default for this team. I like DP as the second big (and that worked REALLY well for the Mavs last year before injury). I also like WCS + KP as a possibility to be tested at some point (and KP + Boban is a great twist every once in awhile). And as you all know, I am 100% in on Gobert this next offseason if Giannis refuses to come to DAL.

2) However, I am 100% in the camp that the Mavs need "KP as the ONE big" as a change-up for different situations. I think this is elite for KP's offensive prowess.
 

My preferred breakdown (thinking of the ideal of having a Gobert to pair with KP):

TWO BIGS: 62.5% or 30 mins/gm (including closing time, playing your two best bigs together about 20 mins a game of that)

ONE BIG: 37.5% or 18 mins/gm (playing KP by himself about 10 of his 30 mins)

@"Kammrath" I bet that ultimately, the way they go in this debate will be shaped by the gettable players available to them. 

Re Powell, I’m with you about THAT being a better fit than many here believe. Powell CAN switch on picks, and isn’t that far off from a Kleber type in that way. You definitely don’t want him iso’d against Paul George as a go to solution, but for 5 seconds, after a pick? I think you can do much worse than pre-injury Powell.

I don’t care much for the stats. But I know that I feel much better with KP rarely diving to the rim. Can we please cancel out 99% of the plays where he catches lobs in traffics? Putback dunks should be forbidden, too, Imo.

Just keep the guy healthy somehow, that’s all that matters.

(11-28-2020, 05:39 PM)JamesConway Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t care much for the stats. But I know that I feel much better with KP rarely diving to the rim. Can we please cancel out 99% of the plays where he catches lobs in traffics? Putback dunks should be forbidden, too, Imo.

Just keep the guy healthy somehow, that’s all that matters.

I think he’s a great roll man, but if I’m reading you correctly, this is a plea to avoid involving him more in order to help prevent future injuries. 

Not the most optimistic take, especially for a guy you’re paying the max, but probably a point worth considering.

(11-28-2020, 12:56 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]In six seeding games in the Orlando bubble, Porzingis averaged 30.5 points and 9.5 rebounds

I want that KP playing for the regular season!

When KP play his first Mavs game, he came back from almost 2 years of playing a pro game. He slowly work his physicality up to the pace of the game. Its going to be similar when he comes back January. Im not expecting 30 points a game but I am expecting his shot percentages to still be up there. 

As for what position, with his high risk of injury, I'll have him at C in defense where it doesn't work his lateral movement and PF on offense. When his legs are back (whether it be mid-season or playoffs), try to get him committed to PF at both sides, that way we have a Powell at.....uuuuhhh.....Center!?!?......wait I rather have WCS at Center. At least he can block shots and defend the paint against true centers.

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Yeah, forget DP at Center. Love the guy and his chemistry with Luka is amazing (much better than KP chemistry) but I can't see him defending successfully against Anthony Davis, Deandre Ayton or Rudy Gobert.

I think RC and the team learned a lot about how to make KP most effective, but KP also started to get in a rhythm and it would have been very interesting to see how KP and Powell worked together again in that setting I’d say, DP had come back from some extended but non-season ending injury.

Unfortunately we’ll now be in a situation where Powell likely won’t be his old self (at least initially) and KP will have a delayed start then have to get in the groove again so we’ll probably never know what peak performance together could have been.

I think this team will ultimately work best with a 5-out lineup including KP. He can certainly play next to a "big," but that big will need to be a legit perimeter defender and shooter, i.e. Maxi or Johnson. I'm afraid someone like Gobert would just get played off the court if you tried to play him next to KP in the playoffs.

Really the ideal player next to KP would be someone like Draymond from 5 years ago. Barring that, the Mavs will make do with Maxi, DFS, and Johnson. Powell is going to depend a lot on if he can actually come back from his injury, and even then it will depend on if KP can play effectively next to him or not.

(11-28-2020, 09:46 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I'm afraid someone like Gobert would just get played off the court if you tried to play him next to KP in the playoffs.

This is an honest question I would love a simple yes or no answer to from anyone who is against Gobert on this team:

Do you really think Gobert makes the defense of the Mavs worse than if you have Maxi/Johnson in his place?

(11-28-2020, 11:52 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2020, 09:46 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I'm afraid someone like Gobert would just get played off the court if you tried to play him next to KP in the playoffs.

This is an honest question I would love a simple yes or no answer to from anyone who is against Gobert on this team:

Do you really think Gobert makes the defense of the Mavs worse than if you have Maxi/Johnson in his place?

On the perimeter against a team that's gone small? Absolutely. I don't think Gobert could guard Kawhi in a playoff game.

(11-29-2020, 12:19 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]On the perimeter against a team that's gone small? Absolutely.

KP's teams have always been better on D when he is next to a another big. KP's teams have always been worse on D when he is the only big. 

So the evidence and data say this is false. 

It is crazy to me how this old wives tale has gotten so much belief from people as though it is gospel truth. Bizarre.

(11-29-2020, 07:48 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-29-2020, 12:19 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]On the perimeter against a team that's gone small? Absolutely.

KP's teams have always been better on D when he is next to a another big. KP's teams have always been worse on D when he is the only big. 

So the evidence and data say this is false. 

It is crazy to me how this old wives tale has gotten so much belief from people as though it is gospel truth. Bizarre.

Ya, an athletic 7 footer behind you and an athletic 7 footer in front of you takes away a TON of options. There was a good amount of driving and backing out when Boban was in position under the rim all last year. If we have 2 guys that can get in position on the court, the layup line is quashed IMO. OK, we might give up a few more 3's, but I don't think it offsets the layup line difference.