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Iztok Franko analyzes the defense in a D Magazine article. On the supposition that not everyone subscribes to D, here is a summary. 

Prioritization of defense. Kidd is committed to building a team whose identity is predicated on playing good defense. It is at least arguable that the team would be better off aiming for a great offense and an average defense, considering the roster. However, Iztok is not using this article to argue the logic of prioritizing defense, and for purposes of this discussion, takes that strategy as a given. 

Description of new system. Kidd is trying to implement a much more aggressive defensive system than Carlisle's conservative schemes. To get a bit jargon-y, his system involves showing high on the pick and roll (putting two defenders on the ball handler), implementing aggressive ICE coverage (pushing the ball handler to the side instead of the middle), and shrinking the floor (collapsing on the ball-handler, and then quickly executing hard closeouts when the ball is reversed) in X-out rotations (player closest to the opponent receiving the kick-out pass closes out, and a teammate rotates to the original matchup). This system requires more decision-making, all five players being in sync, fast rotations, and aggressive close-outs. 

Execution of new system. The concept of the new defensive system is sound. So is the execution, against weaker teams. The problem is that this team is unable to execute it for more than a couple of rotations. They are 28th defensively against the league's ten best teams, who can keep them moving and scrambling long enough.

Lack of suitable personnel. The Mavs lack the personnel to execute this system expertly, as it requires long, athletic defenders. Dorian is the only such player in the starting lineup, and he usually draws a tough on-ball assignment, rather than being used much as a help defender. Third and fourth rotations require change-of-direction skills, fast lateral movement, and good defensive instincts. None of Luka, KP, Timmy, or Jalen has all of those things. 

Two-big lineups 

The team's most athletic defenders (Maxi, Bullock, Frank, and Willie) have often come off the bench. Which brings us to the dreaded two-big lineups, which Kidd is using to keep KP healthy for the playoffs. The problem is that the team may never get to the playoffs, if they continue the way they are. 

Lineups with KP at the four don't foul very much and rebound well, but they give up made shots at a worst-in-the-league rate, particularly at the rim and from beyond the arc. Any defensive situation drawing KP out of the paint and leaving rim protection to Powell is bad. This is not to single out KP, who has often been on the floor with no good help defenders. But it's at best a waste of his talents, considering how much better he is defensively at center. The defense is markedly better when KP plays at the 5. When KP is paired with Maxi, the defense becomes elite at protecting the rim. 

New players are required to execute Kidd's system. 

The takeaway is that, if the Mavs want the Luka-KP pairing to work on the defensive end, they have to surround them with three mobile, athletic defenders. With the current roster construction, in-house solutions are limited. The best defensive lineup is probably with Maxi at PF and Bullock in Hardaway's place. Kidd is experimenting with giving Reggie a bigger role. But depending heavily on Maxi is tricky, as he is almost 30 and is fragile. He has already missed nine games this season. Playing him 27 mpg last year was probably an overuse. 

After the 20-game test period announced by Nico to know who this squad is, we at least know what it isn't -- a good defensive team. Even Kidd concedes that the roster was not built to be one. 

If the front office wants this team to succeed with Kidd's vision, they have to acquire more defensive players. An athletic wing, a mobile four. Most of all, a point-of-attack disruptor. Maxi and Dorian are OK, but no one would mistake them for difference-makers, a la Ben Simmons, Mikal Bridges, or even Alex Caruso. KP is not on the level of anchor bigs, like Gobert, Adebayo, or Capela. There is a reason that no Mav was among the 39 players receiving a vote for the All-Defensive team.  

Is the front office committed to this system? The moves that Nico makes or doesn't make at the TDL will provide an indication of how committed the front office is to remaking the team in Kidd's image. 

https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/2021/12...=feat-sect

(12-06-2021, 11:50 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Kidd is trying to implement a much more aggressive defensive system

I think this IS the way forward. I think the best defensive teams in the current NBA are all more aggressive and scramble and rotate often and intensely.

(12-06-2021, 11:50 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]This system requires more decision-making, all five players being in sync, fast rotations, and aggressive close-outs.

Yes. And I get 100% why RC did not try such a system. I think he knew with his personnel that it was destined to fail.

(12-06-2021, 11:50 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]None of Luka, KP, Timmy, or Jalen has all of those things.

YES. This is the issue. 

Luka in particular has been exposed as a huge team D liability in this new system (honestly worse than Dirk ever was). RC did a better job creating a defensive system where Luka was able to be more lazy. The increased responsibility on Luka this year defensively has backfired and it has tanked the team D when Luka plays. I think THJ is next on the list as a liability, he was much better within RC's scheme. To be clear: THJ and Luka can have fine one-on-one defensive moments, but within an aggressive defensive scheme that asks them to process and move a lot, they have frankly sucked ass.

I think KP has been the best so far this year of these four guys with his ability to engage with the more aggressive scheme. JB has been decent enough, though not good.  


Overall, I think the Mavs needed to adjust the D scheme....BUT as Kidd said "this team wasn't built for defense" because two if not all three of its highest paid players are liabilities. So in a sense I think RC was right AND I think Kidd is right....but the roster needs some significant changes if anything is going to change on the defensive end. I honestly fear that Luka (if his weight and conditioning don't improve) will have to be surrounded by FOUR above average defenders for this team to keep its head above water on that end.

(12-06-2021, 11:50 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]After the 20-game test period announced by Nico to know who this squad is, we at least know what it isn't -- a good defensive team. Even Kidd concedes that the roster was not built to be one. 

The question is whether to continue with Kidd's vision (and maybe lose the season) while trying to trade for players that fit better or put the defensive improvement on hold and play the game this roster was built for.


In all seriousness...is Kidd's vision bigger than any single player, including Luka? Maybe it's too early to consider this option, but if he's not a fit for a defense-first team, do you make a blockbuster deal to bring in player(s) who will?

(12-06-2021, 12:47 PM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]The question is whether to continue with Kidd's vision (and maybe lose the season) while trying to trade for players that fit better or put the defensive improvement on hold and play the game this roster was built for.


In all seriousness...is Kidd's vision bigger than any single player, including Luka? Maybe it's too early to consider this option, but if he's not a fit for a defense-first team, do you make a blockbuster deal to bring in player(s) who will?

I think a lot might depend on whether the front office buys into the idea that increased defensive effort is really going to make enough difference this season that the Mavs can still compete against the good teams as a defense-first squad.

Iztok clearly thinks that it won't. He makes the observation that the Mavs in fact ARE trying harder on defense, and even succeeding to a degree. But in athletics, people's bodies impose a natural ceiling, and you reach a point where more effort has diminishing returns, or even negative returns. The proposition was offered elsewhere, for example, that, no matter how hard Luka tries, he just doesn't have the speed to make those hard, fast closeouts to the corner against the league's better teams, and that expecting him to be an aggressive help defender in those circumstances is simply a poor coaching decision.

I have to say I lean to that point of view, even though I understand Kidd's statement that without a competent defense, they don't have much of a Plan B when the threes aren't falling. However, I also lack confidence that the front office could rebuild this team to be a defensive juggernaut at the trade deadline, even if they were good at front-office stuff. I fear that, with a limited number of alternatives mid-season, they might just make more moves resulting in a slightly better defense and a significantly worse offense. 

Maybe they can make some progress in the offseason, when more players are available. I guess they can still try to prioritize defense this season with an ill-suited roster, on the theory that they want to get the players prepared as much as possible for continuing that approach next season. But they might risk a spot in the playoffs. If they go back to using offense as the engine, Luka and KP (if reasonably healthy) probably result in the playoffs being a floor. But if they prioritize an aggressive defensive system with a bunch of players who can't execute it well, no matter how hard they try, that may not be the case.

Quote:When you pair Porzingis with Maxi Kleber in the frontcourt, the Mavericks reach the upper echelon NBA defense: 100.9 points per 100 possessions — 96th percentile — and are elite at protecting the rim.

Your guy behind Kleber that might be able to play alongside KP is already on the roster. And its not WCS or Powell.

It is clear that new schemes are being tried on both offense and defense. This is always growing pain for a team. This means change in movements and long periods of adapting to that, and sign is chaotic moments, which we havent seen during RC. Sometimes a player gets out of position, due to the new scheme as the entire team is not ready for that, but that many times is due to the player before being out of position a bit less, and that on other hand is because of the player before is out of position even less. It acccumulates. Its hard to single out players due to this. Some players in the scheme will be asked more of, and some less, and that is also a factor.

The key to winning in my view, is to design the system that fits your players. Not to design a system  that you know and finding players to suit that. For this the key as a coach to know many different systems and schemes, and find the one best suited for your players, against that your opponent you are playing.

My view of Kidd so far is that he is trying some new schemes he knows well. Some of that tends to work, but a lot of times not. I dont have yet that impression that he knows how to adapt the scheme to play against the particular opponent and adjust. Also he is trying a lot of things, but I dont have impression he is learning from that what is working and not and that he will be able to replicate the good things. But I hope i'm wrong.

Ultimately this team just doesn't have talent level enough to contend, no matter if you bring the best coach in history. Who is that Red Auerbach maybe? Not a chance with this squad. Besides Luka that is worthy of multiple championships, there are just not many players that could start/play significant roles for such a team playing with consistency that Luka does. Maybe KP or Brunson I view as capable. The rest are just not at the desire level.

(12-06-2021, 02:59 PM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]The key to winning in my view, is to design the system that fits your players. Not to design a system  that you know and finding players to suit that. For this the key as a coach to know many different systems and schemes, and find the one best suited for your players, against that your opponent you are playing.

My view of Kidd so far is that he is trying some new schemes he knows well. Some of that tends to work, but a lot of times not. I dont have yet that impression that he knows how to adapt the scheme to play against the particular opponent and adjust. Also he is trying a lot of things, but I dont have impression he is learning from that what is working and not and that he will be able to replicate the good things. But I hope i'm wrong.

I tend to agree with this. 


This wouldn't be the first time that Kidd has tried a super-aggressive defensive scheme that turned out to be a disaster. 

A similar effort with the Bucks did indeed force turnovers and extra passes, but also resulted in a foul machine, a layup line for opposing offenses, and one of the worst corner-three defenses in the league. And that was with a roster containing multiple GOOD defenders. 

There's a reason you don't see this type of scheme used much in today's NBA, despite its theoretical appeal. It relies heavily on a high degree of athleticism, stamina, and collective defensive IQ from all five players on the court, which is not an easy thing to put together. And even when it works on occasion, it's not very sustainable. 

When Kidd was fired, and the Bucks went to a more conventional system emphasizing switching, staying at home, and dropping in the PNR, they immediately became  a much more effective team.

Granting that the defense needed improvement, I'm not sure why they had to jump to this extremely aggressive scheme that the players admittedly aren't suited to execute and which may not be workable even in the best case. Surely, there was some scheme around that the players could actually perform effectively. 

Kidd's failed defense in Milwaukee has been the subject of numerous analyses. If anyone is interested, here is one --

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the...t-is-over/

It's all going exactly as @"dirkfansince1998" predicted, from my point of view. 

Kidd's scheme IS more aggressive on the ball, and that DOES help to prevent penetration. And, when this year's group has played well, their interior defense has benefitted from these tweaks, too. 

But there's almost always a shooter open when the opposing team is patient and moves the ball enough. As we go through the season, the frequency of teams executing this (including making the resulting shot) will increase steadily, until we reach the playoffs (should the Mavs qualify), when there's a 100% chance that even their first round opponent will be able to exploit this weakness. Remember, the GOOD teams, right now, WANT to take more 3's than they let you take. 

I'm no defensive basketball genius, and I understand that Kidd knows way more than me, but in my view the best way forward is to A) get Porzingis playing interior defense well (mission accomplished, to this point), B) figure out a way for him to do as close to ONLY that as possible and C) trust him to police the paint and have others focus on playing tightly on the perimeter. You want the open shots, if there are some, to be from mid-range, where efficiency goes to die. 

Giving up more open 3's than you get on offense is currently the very best way to lose in the NBA.

(12-06-2021, 01:55 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]But in athletics, people's bodies impose a natural ceiling, and you reach a point where more effort has diminishing returns, or even negative returns.

Ithink this is a part of what is happening with our team's shooting, to be combined with the other stuff (new ball, ref calls changes).

(12-06-2021, 12:12 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Luka in particular has been exposed as a huge team D liability in this new system (honestly worse than Dirk ever was). RC did a better job creating a defensive system where Luka was able to be more lazy. The increased responsibility on Luka this year defensively has backfired and it has tanked the team D when Luka plays. I think THJ is next on the list as a liability, he was much better within RC's scheme. To be clear: THJ and Luka can have fine one-on-one defensive moments, but within an aggressive defensive scheme that asks them to process and move a lot, they have frankly sucked ass.

I think KP has been the best so far this year of these four guys with his ability to engage with the more aggressive scheme. JB has been decent enough, though not good.  

I think the above is right on the money. 

I have never agreed with the complaints against THJ's defense until this season. He has been rooouuugh in this system, so far. No doubt about it. Luka is a guy who prefers to improvise on defense rather than adhere to his responsibilities. We can debate the validity of either approach, but it's clear that it's hurting more this season than in previous years. 

Plus, I think we're circling the idea that the aggressive defense might be causing some of the shooting slump, simply because shooting, believe it or not, requires energy. Getting technically sound jump shots off at the rate the Mavs need from guys like Luka, THJ and Brunson requires physicality that I don't know that many fans appreciate. This theory is supported, I think, by the fact that DFS is the first to show signs of righting the ship, percentage wise. Of all the incumbent shooters, he's the most accustomed to giving full effort on the defensive end of the ball in the past, right?

(12-06-2021, 04:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Luka is a guy who prefers to improvise on defense rather than adhere to his responsibilities.

So, so, so, so true. Sometimes it pays off with Luka getting a steal. Often times it results in some other guy having to cover for Luka and the team functionally playing 4 on 5 defensively.

I am going to keep saying this, but Dirk was REALLY good about doing his damn job on defense. He wasn't a good defender on his own, but he did his part and stayed true to his responsbility. SO important for successful team D.

(12-06-2021, 04:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Plus, I think we're circling the idea that the aggressive defense might be causing some of the shooting slump, simply because shooting, believe it or not, requires energy. Getting technically sound jump shots off at the rate the Mavs need from guys like Luka, THJ and Brunson requires physicality that I don't know that many fans appreciate. This theory is supported, I think, by the fact that DFS is the first to show signs of righting the ship, percentage wise. Of all the incumbent shooters, he's the most accustomed to giving full effort on the defensive end of the ball in the past, right?

I think there is a lot to this. Also, the energy that DFS needs to expend on offense is way less than that required of the scorers. 


At this point, I am not really buying into the idea that "laziness" is primarily responsible for the Mavs' defensive failures. That seems like a blame-shifting distraction from the probability that this is more of a coaching/front office issue of choosing a scheme poorly suited to the talents of the players and/or choosing players who can't execute the system. 

Kidd is trying to get his players to divert a lot of energy from something they do well to something they don't do well. Now, they are doing neither thing well. I can see how the demoralizing effect of expectations that they can't meet might, in turn, affect their morale/effort, resulting in a spiraling downturn on the court. Hope that isn't really the case.

(12-06-2021, 04:30 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I am going to keep saying this, but Dirk was REALLY good about doing his damn job on defense. He wasn't a good defender on his own, but he did his part and stayed true to his responsbility. SO important for successful team D.

Agreed. 

But to be fair, he grew to be the player you're describing, right?

(12-06-2021, 04:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]But to be fair, he grew to be the player you're describing, right?

Yes, but Dirk's GIANT leg up on Luka IMO at this stage is this: HUMILITY. 

I think Dirk genuinely is a humble learner in spirit and was always deeply aware of his flaws and the need to stay focused and on top of his game, even in his early 20s when he was getting drunk with Nash. I think when Dirk was given advice he REALLY listened and tried to follow through. 

I do not see that in Luka at this stage, even though he can present a level of humility in front of the camera, I don't see it in his actions.

(12-06-2021, 04:41 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I do not see that in Luka at this stage, even though he can present a level of humility in front of the camera, I don't see it in his actions.

I think this take depends a little on speculation, but I don't think it's ridiculous. There's reason enough to guess at this, maybe. Luka is definitely more...confident, let's say...right now than Dirk ever was. 

But, and I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, a similar argument can be made the opposite way. If I had one criticism of Dirk, it would be that he didn't have enough of an "I'm superior to everyone around me on either team" mentality. I think an increase in this type of thinking would have made him better during his prime, especially during the later rounds of the playoffs. 

I agree with you that Luka's personality presents different problems, but if the team can get past this current stage of building (where they've been stuck for 2-3 years now) then I think they might take the last couple of steps faster than Dirk's Mavs did, and I think that specifically because of Luka's personality.

(12-06-2021, 04:41 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, but Dirk's GIANT leg up on Luka IMO at this stage is this: HUMILITY. 

I think Dirk genuinely is a humble learner in spirit and was always deeply aware of his flaws and the need to stay focused and on top of his game, even in his early 20s when he was getting drunk with Nash. I think when Dirk was given advice he REALLY listened and tried to follow through. 

I do not see that in Luka at this stage, even though he can present a level of humility in front of the camera, I don't see it in his actions.

No doubt.

But Luka came in with much more success and accolades from his time in Europe than Dirk did. So the mindsets are different. Not saying Luka doesn't need to internalize that more and maybe a season of crappy performance will open his eyes.

(12-06-2021, 04:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think this take depends a little on speculation, but I don't think it's ridiculous. There's reason enough to guess at this, maybe. Luka is definitely more...confident, let's say...right now than Dirk ever was. 

But, and I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, a similar argument can be made the opposite way. If I had one criticism of Dirk, it would be that he didn't have enough of an "I'm superior to everyone around me on either team" mentality. I think an increase in this type of thinking would have made him better during his prime, especially during the later rounds of the playoffs. 

I agree with you that Luka's personality presents different problems, but if the team can get past this current stage of building (where they've been stuck for 2-3 years now) then I think they might take the last couple of steps faster than Dirk's Mavs did, and I think that specifically because of Luka's personality.

Luka has GREAT parts to his demeanor and personality that are superior to Dirk's IMO, no question. I think Luka has a MUCH higher ceiling than Dirk had....like top 3 ALL TIME with MJ and Lebron. 

And yes I am speculating, but it is speculation based on 3+ years of observation. Hearing Luka talk about things, take verbal responsibility, recognize a problem....and then keep seeing it with almost no growth or improvement.

(12-06-2021, 04:33 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Kidd is trying to get his players to divert a lot of energy from something they do well to something they don't do well. Now, they are doing neither thing well. I can see how the demoralizing effect of expectations that they can't meet might, in turn, affect their morale/effort, resulting in a spiraling downturn on the court. Hope that isn't really the case.

Well articulated, with astonishing clarity and rare style. 

Hopefully, even if the effect you describe at the end is what we're seeing, it will be temporary and pay off in the end.

(12-06-2021, 04:33 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Kidd is trying to get his players to divert a lot of energy from something they do well to something they don't do well. Now, they are doing neither thing well. I can see how the demoralizing effect of expectations that they can't meet might, in turn, affect their morale/effort, resulting in a spiraling downturn on the court. Hope that isn't really the case.

ML, this is an amazing point, and gets right to the core.

It made me think of this video from Mark Eaton, having the same point, made by Wilt Chamberlain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uakwVc86vg

Many coaches, and many posters here as well, I believe make the mistake in trying to fix all the deficits on the team. Like Luka needs to improve FTs, we need to improve defense so we need a new scheme etc. etc etc. But what is maybe not considered in all of this, is that more time you pay attention to what you are not good at, you can and will get worse at what you are great at. I believe that we are seeing some, albeit initial, effects of this. And I am not sure Kidd is able to see that.

It is important to become better at your deficiencies, but at the same it, it's a lot more important to do what you are really great at, and focus on that.

Relating this to our defense, I see 4 players on this team with good to great one to one man defense ability: KP, Maxi, DFS and to that I add Luka that has developed a lot in that sense and has showed good and even great defensive play in one to one matchups.

So in my view, we need to let them play that, do what they are best at.

Luka doesnt need to shoot 85% FT to win many championships. He needs to attack that rim. The less he is doing that, the lesser out chances is to win it. He needs to do what he is great at. Its to attack that rim. Play man defense. Rebound. Assist.

When Kidd spots something in the plays that works well, he needs to incorporate that and keep doing it. One thing was Luka and KP pick and roll.

Stop doing what you are not good at. For instance posting up KP. Asking Luka and THJ to move around on defense in a complicated scheme that they dont know well. Its too much to ask for.

I totally agree. In the end you can lose what you are outstanding at and not even improve on your deficiencies. You can end up with nothing.

(12-06-2021, 05:10 PM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]He needs to attack that rim.

Yes Luka absolutely needs to attack the rim. ESSENTIAL for his effectiveness.

Luka shot 26.0% of his shots at the rim in 19-20, then 18.0% in 20-21, and now 11.5% in 21-22. I personally believe this is directly connected to his weight/conditioning which from my view has gotten worse progressively each of the last three seasons. 

But regardless of the cause, Luka absolutely needs to get back to getting shots at the rim, it opens up HIS game and everyone around him.