(06-15-2021, 10:34 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Just want to give props to Mark during this troubling moment...
A lot of people bang on MBT and claim they want an overhaul. Donnie doesnt have it anymore, RC not hungry, the FO is too comfortable, etc...
If this story is true...it shows that Mark was trying some things behind closed doors. Whether it worked or not is a different conversation....Mark was tinkering...which is good, imo.
I listend to the full hour and 10 mintues of Mark on Bill Simmons podcast a few months ago...in that podcast Mark mentions that every successful business is run by math guys these days. Thats probably not entirely true...but you get it.
We can sit here and bash Mark for hiring a gambler...but maybe this guy does have a unique way of seeing the game with his spreadsheets? Im just glad Mark is tinkering behind closed doors.
Honestly, this is how I see it
For years we wanted new guys in FO, now we know we have hired an analytics guy and he actually has a real input and not just another puppy for Cuban.
Now we are mad because he 2 bad interaction with 22 years old player that we know he doesn't have the best temper? And we should fire him for Donnie who has been here for decades? And go back the old ways?
Just get this shit sorted and let everyone know his limits.
(06-15-2021, 09:51 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]The easy way to make this Mavs team better is for MC to run for President!
Maybe we can start the rumor that Mark was using this Bob guy to help him bet on bball?
(06-15-2021, 12:37 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]This may or may not happen. It won't solve anything, though. If someone gets fired, whoever it is, they are not the problem. So their firing won't fix the issues.
The issues are not new. It's the same thing that's been in place for years.
CUBAN is really the Mavs' general manager, the POBO, the draft guru, the trade-maker, the negotiator, and more. He thinks he can do it better and is smarter than the pros at the stuff. And that's how Cuban likes it and wants it. When he bought the Mavs, he bought himself the job of proving he's the world's best "basketball guy" and he won't let go of that.
The smartest boss is the one who isn't fearful to intentionally hire people smarter and more skilled than him, and get out of their way. If he already has one or more of those, get out of their way. But MC won't ever opt for that, because he thinks he is smarter. As a result, Cuban's ability to be the NBA's best as GM, to negotiate, draft, make trades, etc is the Mavs' ceiling.
He is Jerry. I'm just now realizing it. I might be done. I had a good long run! Faithful fan for 35 years!
At the end of rhe day whoever wins and is making decisions needs to be someone who puts the right players around Luka...
Sucks that this has to be taken to the media for agenda purposes...
Oh no! Clutch is throwing me out!! Is that IGT with you?
Highlights of MMB podcast, with Tim Cato --
Cato does not view this piece as a story about Bob. He sees it as a story about the front office as a whole and its dysfunction. He has been working on the article for months. When he first started pursuing the question of why the front office has not been able to put a good enough team around Luka, he posited that a lot stemmed from Luka-KP issues. But no one wanted to talk about that at all. They wanted to talk about the front office power dynamics, and specifically about Bob. But Bob is just a specific example of the internal dysfunctionality in the front office, which goes beyond Bob. The piece is intended to shine a light on how things have gone wrong, and push back on the we're-the-smartest-guys-in-the-room theme.
Having said that, Cato feels very comfortable in reporting that Luka does not like Bob. That seemed to be a given from the sources he talked to.
The story did not arise because of the loss in the first round series. It would be pertinent even if the Mavs had won. The dysfunction existed long before this season's playoffs. Cato's sources, including those outside the team, perceive the situation as going beyond normal corporate politics.
The piece should not be interpreted as setting up a Bob v Rick dynamic. Rick has been nothing but adaptable when it comes to Luka. One of the things Rick most hates is live-ball turnovers from his point guards, but he has decided he can live with them from Luka. Step-back threes are another thing he has come to accept from Luka. Rick has also embraced analytics and the idea of incorporating them into his coaching. He and Bob actually agree on a lot of the conclusions Bob comes to, and this is not a case of one of them v the other, in terms of who stays at the team. They can peacefully co-exist. Also, Luka has not indicated that he is unhappy with Rick, to Tim's knowledge.
The Mavs are normally a very tight-lipped organization. He believes people were willing to share details in this particular case because they view the matter as pivotal and urgent. It is unknown whether Cuban, who has dictated front office policy for over twenty years, also views it this way. There is evidence supporting the view that he does, but also that he doesn't.
The story is not about any single person's incompetence. Many different factors have been at play in a team that has underperformed for the past decade, despite having back-to-back superstars.
Looking forward, the situation is not at a team-destroying level yet. There is still time to "fix" it. But the feeling in the organization is that the power dynamics are not up to par, and that something needs to be done, lest they lose Luka, and the clock is ticking.
This needs to end with an overhaul. Cuban needs this to be his come to Jesus moment...though I'm not confident he can let things go. He does have some Jerry in him and we've seen that story for decades.
If Cuban is capable of self reflection he would see that everything since 2011 has failed, save for one glorious draft night when 3 other teams screwed up royally.
Unfortunately some of the mistakes can't be undone:
- Seth for JRich; this one is not a back breaker but still a big fail for the franchise
- 2020 Draft; Bey or Bane would fit like a glove with Luka, and I still contend there was an easy path to have both
- KP; This is the biggest one and the only hope now is that a system adjustment and a healthy offseason right that ship. Sure there is the trade option but who knows if there will actually be a deal to be had.
- Continuous Plan Powder; this one is the most egregious and the ship has sailed. So many opportunities to add talent were punted away for a pipe dream
- The Powell extension; love the player, hate the contract...and hated it from day 1
They can't afford another mistake riddled offseason. I don't see the home run being a possibility this offseason but there's an opportunity for some solid singles and doubles.
This franchise needs a true long term vision and I don't think the right people are in place to execute that. Cuban has to step aside and bring in a true basketball man to build around Luka.
(06-15-2021, 10:44 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, this is how I see it
For years we wanted new guys in FO, now we know we have hired an analytics guy and he actually has a real input and not just another puppy for Cuban.
Now we are mad because he 2 bad interaction with 22 years old player that we know he doesn't have the best temper? And we should fire him for Donnie who has been here for decades? And go back the old ways?
Just get this shit sorted and let everyone know his limits.
Seems like there is a big disconnect between casuals/fans and analytics guys these days.
My opinion...I would keep the Math guys away from players or just not even let the players know there are Math guys calling the shots.
I say this because any time there is money to be made...Math will come along and change the game. There is money to be made in NBA. Players...for the most part...grow up playing a certain way and style and grow to love playing the game. When a Math guy comes in and says you have to do this or this...and it changes how you see or feel about the game(not as fun)...it forms a line in the sand between players and analytics.
In a Billion dollar industry....you have to adapt to the Math.
I have seen Kevin Durant and other professional athletes hating on analytics. I agree that its not all about analytics...but when there is a lot of money on the line....Math will find a way to pop its head up and change things. This isnt rec center ball with nothing on the line.
Im not saying the Bob guy is the right or wrong move...just get everyone on the same page so there is no finger pointing when things go a little wrong.
Like any good organization, DAL can't be afraid of failure, but they need to post-mortem the failure to learn from it and evolve to make better decisions in the future so the next failure will be avoided or minimized.
Hopefully, that is an ongoing process that will create positive returns. It sounds like there are some disconnects between the parts that need addressing.
When Cuban bought the Mavs, he had a vision of turning the team around and he focused on the marketing and game experience for the fans while Don + Donnie focused on the product. Maybe they need to get back to that type of division of responsibilities.
(06-15-2021, 10:44 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, this is how I see it
For years we wanted new guys in FO, now we know we have hired an analytics guy and he actually has a real input and not just another puppy for Cuban.
Now we are mad because he 2 bad interaction with 22 years old player that we know he doesn't have the best temper? And we should fire him for Donnie who has been here for decades? And go back the old ways?
Just get this shit sorted and let everyone know his limits.
Having new blood in there is welcome. The implementation as it sounds seems very poorly done.
Reading whatever little I have been able to it seems to me that this leak came from within by some who feel threatened by Voulgaris. I don’t believe it is Luka’s camp because they hold all the cards so as to speak. It has to be someone who is upset that the comfy status quo has been disturbed but doesn’t have the power to do anything about it.
(06-15-2021, 11:36 AM)hakeemfaan Wrote: [ -> ]Having new blood in there is welcome. The implementation as it sounds seems very poorly done.
Reading whatever little I have been able to it seems to me that this leak came from within by some who feel threatened by Voulgaris. I don’t believe it is Luka’s camp because they hold all the cards so as to speak. It has to be someone who is upset that the comfy status quo has been disturbed but doesn’t have the power to do anything about it.
Plot twist...
Its Dirk.
We dont know it yet....but he's saving the franchise by airing dirty laundry...forcing it to be cleaned up.
(06-15-2021, 05:16 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]Don't forget Shake Milton.
the front office traded him before Carlisle had a chance to "ruin" him
(06-15-2021, 11:08 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Highlights of MMB podcast, with Tim Cato --
I think the whole recap could be shortened to "Donnie must go". The only dysfunctional thing Tim specifically say is "having two GMs". Voulgaris works well with Rick and obviously Cuban. Ok, Luka doesn't like him but you can solve that by keeping him from team locked away in a dark room or something. The rest is mostly rant about unsuccessful team building history. Cuban is trying to change it but hasn't done it well or enough. So, fire Donnie...
This was main message I got, both on a podcast I listened to yesterday (77 minutes) and this one now.
(06-15-2021, 01:06 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think the whole recap could be shortened to "Donnie must go". The only dysfunctional thing Tim specifically say is "having two GMs". Voulgaris works well with Rick and obviously Cuban. Ok, Luka doesn't like him but you can solve that by keeping him from team locked away in a dark room or something. The rest is mostly rant about unsuccessful team building history. Cuban is trying to change it but hasn't done it well or enough. So, fire Donnie...
This was main message I got, both on a podcast I listened to yesterday (77 minutes) and this one now.
If Donnie is fired and the green guy locked into a dark room, then all of sudden we have zero GMs?
(06-15-2021, 01:13 PM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]If Donnie is fired and the green guy locked into a dark room, then all of sudden we have zero GMs?
Yes
I don't think Cato believes making Voulgaris a GM is a solution
(06-14-2021, 06:03 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t have the whole article or context of the souring of relationships. However it does not bother anyone that Luka is dropping f bombs at a front office guy?
I thought this was a point worth following up on. Another symptom of dysfunction, probably.
In most, if not all, NBA teams, members of the analytics group would not have the authority to give instructions to players on the court. Even generic instructions, like calming down after a turnover. Neither would the GM, unless he were also the coach. If in fact, Bob was authorized to give such instructions, that is on Cuban for a departure from standard procedure that tends to undermine the coaching staff. If, however, Bob was acting without authority, then he should stay in his lane.
Assuming that Bob did not have authority to directly instruct the team, Luka's irritation may have been justified. However, all members of the organization should treat each other with respect, and that includes Luka. Luka's remedy was, ideally, just to ignore it, or if it was bothering him enough, to register a complaint with the coaching staff or whoever was in authority over matters of this nature. Shouting F bombs at colleagues is not conducive to organizational harmony, whether or not the shouter feels justified.
If this was a one-off thing, perhaps we could dismiss it as an unfortunate lapse by both parties. If, as seems to be suggested, this is part of a pattern, then it is indicative of a toxic culture which needs to be addressed.
