Trade & FA 2023-24: HOU Targeting Mikal Bridges again!| Mitchell is LAL #1 Target

[F Gump]

That article simply mirrors what's already said here.

The starting point is to find out what it will take to sign DJJ. Anything beyond TxMLE will take work.

If the NT MLE is required, trading THJ into a team's cap space is one path, but might not be so cheap and easy. We can only hope. And it can't happen on draft day - it would have to be a July deal.

If DJJ can be signed for less than full MLE, other routes are possible that may be more advantageous to roster building.

[SleepingHero]

I think it's reasonable to assume DJJ might be gunning for that 4/55 deal this summer at the least. He hasn't ever had a contract of that dollar amount with that many years. I think we're going to be surprised at how many teams are going to want to go after DJJ.

There is the scenario if he takes the TxMLE 1+1 deal and then proceeds to sign a 4/61 deal the next year, he makes more money. But I can't see him risking it at all.

I think after the finals the Mavs will be searching for any deal that sends THJ away for little to no money and their 2nds to do it. DET seems like a very reasonable trade partner with their TPE and historical desire for THJ and need for vets for the young guns.

I actually think the Pistons would pay the Mavs (yes you read that right) to get THJ on the team in his final year. They aren't going to pay much but they have 9 2nd round picks in the next 5 years.

THJ+#58 in this years draft to DET.

2027 2nd that is the least favorable of DAL/BRK+ to DAL

After this trade and after DJJ's 13 mil MLE deal, Mavs will be at 173 with 2 roster spots to fill. I assume 1 will be going to Marcus Morris at the vet min. The other can either be a draft pick that they make a move for, or a reclamation project as a merry minimum.

Getting off of THJ's deal and getting a future 2nd, retaining DJJ, and maybe getting another value find is a great summer.

[mvossman]

I think it's reasonable to assume DJJ might be gunning for that 4/55 deal this summer at the least. He hasn't ever had a contract of that dollar amount with that many years. I think we're going to be surprised at how many teams are going to want to go after DJJ.

There is the scenario if he takes the TxMLE 1+1 deal and then proceeds to sign a 4/61 deal the next year, he makes more money. But I can't see him risking it at all.

I think after the finals the Mavs will be searching for any deal that sends THJ away for little to no money and their 2nds to do it. DET seems like a very reasonable trade partner with their TPE and historical desire for THJ and need for vets for the young guns.

I actually think the Pistons would pay the Mavs (yes you read that right) to get THJ on the team in his final year. They aren't going to pay much but they have 9 2nd round picks in the next 5 years.

THJ+#58 in this years draft to DET.

2027 2nd that is the least favorable of DAL/BRK+ to DAL

After this trade and after DJJ's 13 mil MLE deal, Mavs will be at 173 with 2 roster spots to fill. I assume 1 will be going to Marcus Morris at the vet min. The other can either be a draft pick that they make a move for, or a reclamation project as a merry minimum.

Getting off of THJ's deal and getting a future 2nd, retaining DJJ, and maybe getting another value find is a great summer.

Don't really get the need to hold onto Morris.  Personally I think they could use a bench point guard given the health concerns of Exum.  I think Hardy needs to focus on being a shooting guard.

[omahen]

Trading THJ into someones cap space would definitely cost something. How about trading Green (still young and someone might like his potential) into someones cap space for a couple of second rounders? Does he have this kind of value on his new deal?

Than trade THJ and some assets for a useful player with similar salary or a bit less. Either in the summer or at TDL.

Looking very hard for a draft day trade where we would be getting a late FRP or SRP in exchange for Green or THJ+2025, but Greens poison pill and THJ deal are basically preventing anything reasonable.

[SleepingHero]

Don't really get the need to hold onto Morris.  Personally I think they could use a bench point guard given the health concerns of Exum.  I think Hardy needs to focus on being a shooting guard.

Chemistry matters.

Morris is one of the glues that is holding the locker room together. Luka constantly mentions Morris. Kyrie mentions Morris. He's the guy leading the bench mob.

Vet min for locker room vibes is important and cost effective.

[F Gump]

Trading THJ into someones cap space would definitely cost something. How about trading Green (still young and someone might like his potential) into someones cap space for a couple of second rounders? Does he have this kind of value on his new deal?

Than trade THJ and some assets for a useful player with similar salary or a bit less. Either in the summer or at TDL.

Looking very hard for a draft day trade where we would be getting a late FRP or SRP in exchange for Green or THJ+2025, but Greens poison pill and THJ deal are basically preventing anything reasonable.

FYI Green's poison pill is not an issue with trading him into a team's cap room. When we get to July, there is no poison pill, and in June (draft time trades) it looks like no one has appreciable cap room to offer anyhow.

[SleepingHero]

Evan Sidery (@esidery)
Monty Williams pushed for the Suns to trade Deandre Ayton for Myles Turner when the Pacers offered a max contract in restricted free agency, per @Gambo987 (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/th...0656203390).

GM James Jones was adamant about not trading Ayton for Turner.

After the next season, Williams was fired and Ayton was ultimately traded anyways to the Trail Blazers.

[SleepingHero]

I actually think the Pistons would pay the Mavs (yes you read that right) to get THJ on the team in his final year. They aren't going to pay much but they have 9 2nd round picks in the next 5 years.

THJ+#58 in this years draft to DET.

2027 2nd that is the least favorable of DAL/BRK+ to DAL

Just bringing this back up because one of the reasons I believe the Pistons may pay is that the Mavs can point to Buddy Hield being traded for 3 2nd round picks this year.

Buddy is a much better shooter than THJ, hence only 1 2nd (and the Mavs sending theirs), but THJ is under contract for 1 more season. Maybe the Mavs could even get a little more. Who knows?

[mvossman]

Just bringing this back up because one of the reasons I believe the Pistons may pay is that the Mavs can point to Buddy Hield being traded for 3 2nd round picks this year.

Buddy is a much better shooter than THJ, hence only 1 2nd (and the Mavs sending theirs), but THJ is under contract for 1 more season. Maybe the Mavs could even get a little more. Who knows?

I think everyone here would be ecstatic if somebody simply took him for free, which makes me think its very unlikely they can get anything for him.  They tried to trade him at the TDL at the height of his value and could not get anything for him.  He has been terrible since and likely destroyed what little value he had.  Plus, they know we are trying to get off him to make room and there is not a lot of competition to eat his salary.

[Knutsen]

I think everyone here would be ecstatic if somebody simply took him for free, which makes me think its very unlikely they can get anything for him.  They tried to trade him at the TDL at the height of his value and could not get anything for him.  He has been terrible since and likely destroyed what little value he had.  Plus, they know we are trying to get off him to make room and there is not a lot of competition to eat his salary.

Problem is his contract becomes an asset at the trade deadline as an expiring contract - but we have to get rid of him earlier to be able to sign Jones. So by having to just dump him and maybe throw in a second rounder we lose the chance to finally turn him into a valuable, fitting piece unfortunately.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Detroit can get THJ and use him in a similar way as they did Bojan.
THJ will have value as an expiring and additional help for those teams lacking in shooting at the TDL.
They'd buy low and sell high with THJ.

A trade like this could easily happen:
THJ+58 for Detroit's 54.

One other team to look out for is Philly,
Should they mess up their FA plan: THJ for Reed.

[omahen]

FYI Green's poison pill is not an issue with trading him into a team's cap room. When we get to July, there is no poison pill, and in June (draft time trades) it looks like no one has appreciable cap room to offer anyhow.

Exactly what I was saying, that I can't find anything reasonable on draft day

[Jason Terry]

I believe a team out of Detroit, Orlando, Charlotte will take on THJ’s expiring for a 2nd in a bad draft. Those teams have picks in the 40’s-50’s and could use a year of THJ more than those picks. Expirings are far different than multi year deals. Much easier to move that contract now

This move frees us up to re-sign Jones Jr to the full MLE he deserves.

Morris for the 15th spot and run it back. We have a young team. We will be even better next year just by having a full year together. Everyone but Kyrie and Maxi have yet to reach their prime

[surfpuckmd]

THJ had some value earlier this season when he was shooting well and helping the team win games.  

He's been really bad the last several months though and is no longer worth his contract next season.  

I think it's unlikely that a team like Detroit will just take on his salary as a favor to us much less trade us draft capital to do so.  

I think we'd have to give up multiple 2nd-round picks in order to have a team take THJ into capspace.  I say this as a longtime THJ defender.  He's been bad recently and other organizations watch the games just like we do.  

It will be worth it though to free up the space to re-sign DJJ to a reasonable contract.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

THJ had some value earlier this season when he was shooting well and helping the team win games.  

He's been really bad the last several months though and is no longer worth his contract next season.  

I think it's unlikely that a team like Detroit will just take on his salary as a favor to us much less trade us draft capital to do so.  

I think we'd have to give up multiple 2nd-round picks in order to have a team take THJ into capspace.  I say this as a longtime THJ defender.  He's been bad recently and other organizations watch the games just like we do.  

It will be worth it though to free up the space to re-sign DJJ to a reasonable contract.

Although it appears Detroit is willing to take on bad contracts for additional draft capital as they've done recently (Joe Harris for example) I don't think they'll continue that practice, because it hasn't worked for them. They already have 60 million in cap space next season. They need direction from a new GM.

[omahen]

Although it appears Detroit is willing to take on bad contracts for additional draft capital as they've done recently (Joe Harris for example) I don't think they'll continue that practice, because it hasn't worked for them. They already have 60 million in cap space next season. They need direction from a new GM.

Very much agree. I think Detroit wants to end tanking. I see them take the Houston approach. Overpay a couple of culture vets to start winning at least to some extent. Either in FA or through trades providing financial relief and assets to the trade partner.

[mvossman]

Very much agree. I think Detroit wants to end tanking. I see them take the Houston approach. Overpay a couple of culture vets to start winning at least to some extent. Either in FA or through trades providing financial relief and assets to the trade partner.

Isn't Timmy a "culture vet"?  He has on court value, its just very limited on a contending, defense oriented team.  Wouldn't taking on his 16 be the definition of overpaying a culture vet.  And they can get a second round pick for their troubles.

[DallasMaverick]

THJ had some value earlier this season when he was shooting well and helping the team win games.  

He's been really bad the last several months though and is no longer worth his contract next season.  

I think it's unlikely that a team like Detroit will just take on his salary as a favor to us much less trade us draft capital to do so.  

I think we'd have to give up multiple 2nd-round picks in order to have a team take THJ into capspace.  I say this as a longtime THJ defender.  He's been bad recently and other organizations watch the games just like we do.  

It will be worth it though to free up the space to re-sign DJJ to a reasonable contract.

It remains to be seen how the rest of the league values THJ.

We fans turn pretty quickly on our own players who aren’t performing well, but outsiders can hold on to an opinion about a player even when they’re playing poorly.

Just think of all the positivity we’ve seen on this board about players like Gordon Hayward. He hasn’t played well in a while, but we remember back to some great years he’s had, and wonder if there’s anything left in the tank. Maybe his non-performance was due to his situation, or a coach who just didn’t use or appreciate him properly.

I can guarantee that there are fans, and maybe GM’s, who think the same way about Timmy.

[DanSchwartzgan]

HARD CAP MATH - To use the bigger MLE at all, you can't go over $179M Apron 1, no matter what, so a team has to leave a cushion. Let's pencil in a limit of $178M.

Without counting Lawson, the Mavs already have 12 players at $173.537M. That includes Kyrie's incentives, all of which count on Hard Cap Math. They have to have at least 14 players (and likely prefer 15). DJJ fills one of those empty slots. Hard cap math says each minimum salary will cost AT LEAST $2.094M this year (there are minor exceptions to that number, but Mavs are extremely unlikely to be able to do one like that.). So that leaves 2 empty slots (Lawson can fill one of those slots if you wish) and 2 minimum salary players will cost at least $4.188M.

That puts the Mavs right now at $177.724M. At that number, you can either spend the taxpayer MLE of $5.2M (and go past Apron 1 with no barrier), or spend NT MLE but you only have spending room under the Hard Cap of about $0.276M right now.

If you trade THJ (either alone, or in a package), and the other team needs to salary match to do the deal, the biggest spread allowed is $7.5M, which then offers room for an increased NT MLE of $7.776M.

If you SW THJ, there's the cost of the dead salary and the cost of refilling that salary slot, so you gain $8.702M and now have the ability to spend a NT MLE of about $9M.

To get a bigger NT MLE via a trade of THJ (or anyone else), you have to find a team with cap room who won't have to salary match, and who will use some of their cap room to take THJ.

Everything gets easier if DJJ would take the $5.2M TxMLE, because then there's no hard cap until you get up to Apron 2 (about $190M).

Thanks for this.  I need to somehow pin this location in my mind for future reference (Top of page 554, Top of page 554).

I was a little concerned DJJ might play himself past our ability to easily retain.  Of course, the post season isn’t over yet and short of a championship the season will end with disappointment and that disappointment will likely be directed at someone or a few someones who didn’t quite get it done.  So, TP MLE could still end up being in play.

Also, it takes a certain type of team to invest a full MLE contract in someone like DJJ.  Those types of teams who need that very specific role don’t tend to have money or space or the exception necessary under the current rules.  So, time will tell.  I appreciated the Moneyball article that painted some hope for retaining him from recent past examples (BTW, how smart does the Indy FO look for they way they creatively handled the Turner extension and structured the Bruce Brown deal as something that could be used as matching salary in a bigger deal without giving up anything core).

As to reacting to some of what I’ve read here.  I think it was Knutson who pointed out that trading THJ in the offseason is throwing away an asset that can be better used later.  I agree.  His expiring contract and a pick at the TDL is likely to be much more valuable than it is this summer.

Another thing I’m struggling with in some of the proposals that ship out THJ for air is we are making a trade to stand still (retain Jones).  Teams in our position tend to use outgoing assets to upgrade somewhere, not stand still.  It feels like THJ and something should be used to maximize the roster as opposed to creating space to just keep DJJ.

[vfromlmf]

I understand the interest in retaining DJJ but let's not forget THJ played a key role in the Mavs Thunder Game 2 win on the road THIS YEAR.

17 points on 6-10 shooting and +15 (second only to Lively)

Mavs will need to score against MIN and they can play smaller at times with Luka guarding KAT. I happen to think one of THJ/Exum/Hardy is going to play a big role in this series. THJ is the veteran who's done it before in the playoffs.