Trade & FA 2023-24: Lavine Market Barely There| NOP Want Trae or Murray

[SleepingHero]

I don't think that trade would be possible (or practical) because of the new trade rules pertaining to the apron at Apron 1. Assuming THJ gets traded, the return salary needs to be less, not more, and ideally it would be several million less.

Fair point. Wasn't thinking about contracts more so of getting more versatile 6'8 guys on the roster.

[Mavs2021]

On the other hand, it sure seems like everyone has hated him on every team he has played for. Don’t you think part of what is working here is chemistry?

His teammates on the undefeated world champs seemed to like him just fine. Don´t think Lakers hated him either. There is no doubt he´s not lacking in self confidence and is opinionated. Same could be said about Kyrie Irving before coming here. I´m just looking at matching salary that create a little extra space and can be dealt for Timmah straight up. Not a lot of options out there. Schroeder is probably one of the better available options. Unless of course they want to aim for a big upgrade with THJ+Powell+1st round pick(s) at the core of the package. That could mean we lose DJJ.

[mvossman]

His teammates on the undefeated world champs seemed to like him just fine. Don´t think Lakers hated him either. There is no doubt he´s not lacking in self confidence and is opinionated. Same could be said about Kyrie Irving before coming here. I´m just looking at matching salary that create a little extra space and can be dealt for Timmah straight up. Not a lot of options out there. Schroeder is probably one of the better available options. Unless of course they want to aim for a big upgrade with THJ+Powell+1st round pick(s) at the core of the package. That could mean we lose DJJ.

Don't really think Kyrie is a good comp for potential chemistry issues.  Grant Williams is probably a better one.  No interest in Schroeder.

[F Gump]

I don't want to change any of the Mavs starters or key reserves. I think the players to do what's needed are already here, with very minor exceptions.
- I think they have a good shot at finding a way to keep DJJ. He wants to be here. I expect they want the same.
- I think Gafford is very important, and that he makes Lively better (and vice versa). Both can play all out, not worry about fouls, challenge shots, be aggressive. If one is having an off game, the other can get more minutes. Just like Brendan Haywood made Tyson Chandler better. And I don't have any issue with Gafford's salary as long as it's in the MLE area.
- I am in the minority on Green - I see his issues and don't look at him through rose colored glasses imagining he's someone else - but I would keep him. The price is modest, and at times he is a plus.
- On both Green and Exum, it's frustrating to see them unable to score in the playoffs, but I think they both got off track from injuries, and not sure either is fully healthy. Neither has a problem salary. I think they can be much better.

I do want to move THJ. I'm glad he is making plays at times in playoffs. I hope it raises his desirability to other teams. They need a more reliable bench scorer at times. Trade possibilities will be greatly impacted and limited by hard cap rules, and it seems fairly concrete that any THJ trade will have to be done with LESS salary coming back in return.

[The Jom]

Assuming no other moves, the most you can pay DJJ after a trade of THJ with "matching" salary in return will be in the neighborhood of 8M. If you simply give THJ away into someone's cap room, that allows full MLE, but that's also harder and more expensive.

Just paying the taxpayer MLE to DJJ, then filling up the roster, has the Mavs about 3M over Apron 1.

It’s invaluable having you run this math here. Do you think the stretch waive is under consideration?

[BigDirk41]

I definitely don't want to add a new starter to this team unless that's just Lively replacing Gafford. Any additions need to be good defenders because that seems to be the identity of the team now. A top notch 6th man that can hold his own defensively would go a long ways. We need to retain DJJ and he needs to be the starting 4. Adding a star that can't defend will make this team worse imo. I'm highly confident PJ will be a great 3rd option next year.

[F Gump]

It’s invaluable having you run this math here. Do you think the stretch waive is under consideration?

Of whom?

I don't see anyone they'd want to pay to go away, rather than try to get value somehow from the salary. SW is way overrated imo as a planning option.

[JamesConway912]

A third guard who can carry some of the burden behind Kyrie/Luka and helps in the halfcourt offense once things get stagnant is the biggest need for now Imo. Doesn’t have to be a worldbeater, someone like DJ Augustin in his Orlando days would be plenty enough. Preferably someone cheap, maybe Schröder although we have a long track record of not chasing him.

They have been linked to Sexton in the past, he’s probably not gettable though. I doubt they’d add someone expensive but he’d be a big help off the bench. Rozier would be, too.

They’ll have to replace Kleber sooner than later, I am also hopeful that Lively might be able to add some range to his game but that’s mostly wishful thinking as of now. 

Omax is a big question mark, he gets a lot of hype on this board but realistically he’s another season like this away from being out of the Nba. He was an upperclassman afterall and has not been remotely close to being an option for the rotation so far. He needs to show progress quickly. 

Kidd has not been gunshy when it comes to finding minutes for development projects yet Omax has actually played less than Green did in his rookie season under Carlisle who had zero interest in developing him.

[Smitty]

A third guard who can carry some of the burden behind Kyrie/Luka and helps in the halfcourt offense once things get stagnant is the biggest need for now Imo.

PJ Washington is averaging 19.4 PPG this series.

[The Jom]

Of whom?

I don't see anyone they'd want to pay to go away, rather than try to get value somehow from the salary. SW is way overrated imo as a planning option.

Was replying to your post that said, “ If you simply give THJ away into someone's cap room, that allows full MLE . . . .”

So THJ is the answer to your question. You already answered mine. I suspect you are right that they will pay someone an asset to take Timmy before absorbing that stretch hit for the next 3 years. But I assume the fact that they could choose to stretch creates a ceiling on how much they should/would give up for a salary dump.

[JamesConway912]

PJ Washington is averaging 19.4 PPG this series.

That’s great production for a forward. Awesome.

[Scott41theMavs]

PJ Washington is averaging 19.4 PPG this series.

What's he got to do with guards?

[Scott41theMavs]

A third guard who can carry some of the burden behind Kyrie/Luka and helps in the halfcourt offense once things get stagnant is the biggest need for now Imo. Doesn’t have to be a worldbeater, someone like DJ Augustin in his Orlando days would be plenty enough. Preferably someone cheap, maybe Schröder although we have a long track record of not chasing him.

They have been linked to Sexton in the past, he’s probably not gettable though. I doubt they’d add someone expensive but he’d be a big help off the bench. Rozier would be, too.

They’ll have to replace Kleber sooner than later, I am also hopeful that Lively might be able to add some range to his game but that’s mostly wishful thinking as of now. 

Omax is a big question mark, he gets a lot of hype on this board but realistically he’s another season like this away from being out of the Nba. He was an upperclassman afterall and has not been remotely close to being an option for the rotation so far. He needs to show progress quickly. 

Kidd has not been gunshy when it comes to finding minutes for development projects yet Omax has actually played less than Green did in his rookie season under Carlisle who had zero interest in developing him.

I don't understand why fans who seem otherwise to know something about basketball dismiss OMax so ruthlessly. He obviously had a lot to learn about NBA-level defensive rotations. Moreover, we were stacked at the four-three. (that's to understand why he didn't play this year) He has the physical tools in a niche which is quite highly valued in this league. He became very reliable at outside shooting in the GL and applied that to the league when finally given the chance. 

He'll get his shot next year. "Another year like this year" - not sure why that possibility would be raised when the only conceivable possibility of it happening requires that he fall down a tall flight of steps this month.

[RGP1981]

Here's a question to consider moving forward - how important is the Landlord? I think Lively is clearly the superior player right now, has growth headroom that absolutely dwarfs Gafford, and has the additional advantage of being on a rookie contract. There was certainly a considerable value to taking the pressure off Lively minutes and foul-wise this year. I think that diminishes as time goes on. I think it would be wonderful still to have Gafford here next year, but far less crucial than this year. I would imagine that Gafford next year is a 20 mpg player in the regular season, and about 15 mpg in the playoffs. Is that enough for him to deserve his salary next year? I'm sure they'd love to have that role filled at a lower salary next year and far moreso the year after. How much lower can the Mavs afford to go talent-wise for the sake of that savings?

Or is there someone who would be just as effective in the role at a fraction of the price?

Jericho Sims. He needs coaching up but the physical tools are there. He is an athletic freak with abnormal lateral quickness for a 6'10-6'11" guy. Anyway, he's a better perimeter defender and rebounder than Gafford or Lively, and is someone who can give the Mavs 15-20 MPG.

That being said, I think Gafford is important and would prefer to keep him. I also think it would be real nice to have 3 Centers of this type... since they can get in foul trouble real quick if the referees decide to call all the ticky-tacky stuff... and nobody knows if Kleber can stay healthy. Gafford, Lively and Sims would be a strong rotation to have, and cheap too.

Possessions from different games

[F Gump]

Was replying to your post that said, “ If you simply give THJ away into someone's cap room, that allows full MLE . . . .”

So THJ is the answer to your question. You already answered mine. I suspect you are right that they will pay someone an asset to take Timmy before absorbing that stretch hit for the next 3 years. But I assume the fact that they could choose to stretch creates a ceiling on how much they should/would give up for a salary dump.

Got it. While I mentioned a deal of sending THJ into someone's cap room, that was only an answer on how to create full MLE cap room.

FYI the SW path on THJ, like many other options, does not offer them the ability to spend the full big MLE (it probably gets them to around $10M starting salary, more or less).

I do think "what is DJJ thinking" is the primary question, which will define or limit their ideas, and one we have no answer to. Will DJJ will take the TxP MLE and work to make Dallas his home team? He's a great fit. Or will the demand for him make his salary price literally impossible, no matter what the Mavs do? While not as likely, that is still a possibility. Gotta know that, before deciding what makes sense on THJ.

ETA - I do think DJJ is such a good fit that it would make no sense to look for an alternative if you don't have to. How long have we longed for a superior wing defender? His agility, smarts, and length/leaping ability makes him pretty much everything we could want in that area, and he also has ways to be a factor on the offensive end. From time to time I see ideas of looking for better offense at his position, but I would much prefer to find that added offense from DJJ getting a bit better, rather than from a replacement whose defense will be worse (and likely MUCH MUCH worse). And if we pursue a player who is strong defensively AND on offense, we end up paying $40M rather than $10M, plus the cost to get him here is super expensive (and probably impossible).

[SleepingHero]

I definitely don't want to add a new starter to this team unless that's just Lively replacing Gafford. Any additions need to be good defenders because that seems to be the identity of the team now. A top notch 6th man that can hold his own defensively would go a long ways. We need to retain DJJ and he needs to be the starting 4. Adding a star that can't defend will make this team worse imo. I'm highly confident PJ will be a great 3rd option next year.

I'm largely with the "Don't mess with the starting 5" crowd this summer. It works with Luka/Kyrie/DJJ/PJ/Gafford(Lively) lineup. But there is a world where DJJ regresses and looks like the guy he has always been at every other stop. If an obvious upgrade comes along the Mavs should take it.  

Who qualifies as an obvious upgrade is up for debate. I played with the Lebron+Bronny idea in the draft thread. Lebron as a player just makes a lot of sense and lets you dial back Luka during the regular season. Also allows Lebron to dial it back too. My only concerns are with his defense (and how bad he is now) plus the media circus that follows him. 

The one guy I've been pining over for forever is Lauri. Dude would do wonders here. Has the size of a 4/5, but the mobility of a 2/3. Can't create shots for himself off the dribble reliably but is arguably the most lethal spot up shooter in the league. 

Him with PJ and Lively is a formidable front court. Mavs lineup is:

Luka (6'8)
Kyrie (6'3)
PJ (6'7)
Lauri (7'0)
Lively (7'1) 

Just such a big lineup and filled with shooting. Luka being able to serve up Lauri open 3 after open 3 gets me going. Can never double anyone in this lineup cause you have 3 (maybe even 4 if we count PJ) 3-level scorers. Give up a bit on D but add a whole new dimension to the offense. 

No way the Mavs has what it takes though for a Lauri deal. I'd give up Green+OMax+Hardy+THJ+Maxi. Basically anyone not named Luka/Kyrie/PJ/Lively for Lauri. As well as 2025+2031 unprotected. I'm really that big of a fan of Lauri.

[BigDirk41]

I'm not interested in giving up an inch defensively. Defense is 100% why we are winning in the playoffs. I don't want someone who is a upgrade offensively (even if significant) at the cost of defense. Defense is the new Mavs identity. I love Lauri as a player, but he doesn't fit on this current Mavs team. We don't need another guy that needs the ball a lot. We have the perfect mix of big time scores with role players that can do more, but won't complain if they aren't getting touches. Everyone on the team can play defense now and that includes Luka (when he wants to). I also think Gafford is here to stay. I suspect Lively will be the starter next year, but Gafford isn't someone we can just replace with some cheap option. He's a very high energy and high character guy. He's a great teammate and he protects the rim.

[The Jom]

Mavs seem to circle back on guys they missed sometimes. Is Matisse Thybulle still on anybody’s wish list? That would kind of be doubling down on the DJJ investment.

[RGP1981]

I'm not interested in giving up an inch defensively. Defense is 100% why we are winning in the playoffs. I don't want someone who is a upgrade offensively (even if significant) at the cost of defense. Defense is the new Mavs identity. I love Lauri as a player, but he doesn't fit on this current Mavs team. We don't need another guy that needs the ball a lot. We have the perfect mix of big time scores with role players that can do more, but won't complain if they aren't getting touches. Everyone on the team can play defense now and that includes Luka (when he wants to). I also think Gafford is here to stay. I suspect Lively will be the starter next year, but Gafford isn't someone we can just replace with some cheap option. He's a very high energy and high character guy. He's a great teammate and he protects the rim.

Herb Jones, Jaden McDaniels... those are the guys who would be defensive upgrades on DJJ, but not by much.

I would go for them if they were available though, because of their younger age. Herb seems more get-able than Jaden.

And I would like Aaron Wiggins as the backup SG. He plays good enough defense at 6'6", and seems to have a better offensive impact on the game than THJ or Green. Most importantly, he doesn't seem a bed-wetter, like THJ or Green. If I were to compare him individually to those two:

Shooting: THJ > Wiggins > Green.
Driving to the Rim: Wiggins > Green > THJ.
Cutting: Wiggins > Green > THJ.
Defense: Green >= Wiggins > THJ.
Athleticism: Green > Wiggins > THJ.
BBIQ: Wiggins > THJ > Green.
Ability to step up: Wiggins > THJ > Green.
Salary: Wiggins > Green > THJ.

[The Jom]

You keep saying Wiggins. But isn’t this series showing he isn’t playable? His minutes have diminished every game, while his coach searches for a guy to fill in for Giddey but isn’t choosing him. He’s hit 1 of his last 9 from the 3-point line. And he’s listed at 6-5, not 6-6. Don’t see what there is to love there. Josh and Tim both outplaying him from my vantage point.