(05-21-2024, 10:12 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Thanks for this.  I need to somehow pin this location in my mind for future reference (Top of page 554, Top of page 554).

I was a little concerned DJJ might play himself past our ability to easily retain.  Of course, the post season isn’t over yet and short of a championship the season will end with disappointment and that disappointment will likely be directed at someone or a few someones who didn’t quite get it done.  So, TP MLE could still end up being in play.

Also, it takes a certain type of team to invest a full MLE contract in someone like DJJ.  Those types of teams who need that very specific role don’t tend to have money or space or the exception necessary under the current rules.  So, time will tell.  I appreciated the Moneyball article that painted some hope for retaining him from recent past examples (BTW, how smart does the Indy FO look for they way they creatively handled the Turner extension and structured the Bruce Brown deal as something that could be used as matching salary in a bigger deal without giving up anything core).

As to reacting to some of what I’ve read here.  I think it was Knutson who pointed out that trading THJ in the offseason is throwing away an asset that can be better used later.  I agree.  His expiring contract and a pick at the TDL is likely to be much more valuable than it is this summer.

Another thing I’m struggling with in some of the proposals that ship out THJ for air is we are making a trade to stand still (retain Jones).  Teams in our position tend to use outgoing assets to upgrade somewhere, not stand still.  It feels like THJ and something should be used to maximize the roster as opposed to creating space to just keep DJJ.

(05-21-2024, 10:12 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Thanks for this.  I need to somehow pin this location in my mind for future reference (Top of page 554, Top of page 554).

I was a little concerned DJJ might play himself past our ability to easily retain.  Of course, the post season isn’t over yet and short of a championship the season will end with disappointment and that disappointment will likely be directed at someone or a few someones who didn’t quite get it done.  So, TP MLE could still end up being in play.

Also, it takes a certain type of team to invest a full MLE contract in someone like DJJ.  Those types of teams who need that very specific role don’t tend to have money or space or the exception necessary under the current rules.  So, time will tell.  I appreciated the Moneyball article that painted some hope for retaining him from recent past examples (BTW, how smart does the Indy FO look for they way they creatively handled the Turner extension and structured the Bruce Brown deal as something that could be used as matching salary in a bigger deal without giving up anything core).

As to reacting to some of what I’ve read here.  I think it was Knutson who pointed out that trading THJ in the offseason is throwing away an asset that can be better used later.  I agree.  His expiring contract and a pick at the TDL is likely to be much more valuable than it is this summer.

Another thing I’m struggling with in some of the proposals that ship out THJ for air is we are making a trade to stand still (retain Jones).  Teams in our position tend to use outgoing assets to upgrade somewhere, not stand still.  It feels like THJ and something should be used to maximize the roster as opposed to creating space to just keep DJJ.

(05-21-2024, 01:22 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: @TheDunkCentral
The Orlando Magic are interested in D’Angelo Russell, per
@KellyIko

(05-21-2024, 01:50 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Unpopular post incoming:

If you want to save money right away for DJJ without giving up the deadline asset of Hardaway's expiring, I think dealing Gafford could be the answer.

He hasn't played well in the playoffs (yet), but he's still getting mentioned by the talking heads as a reason for the Mavs' strong finish. It's so beyond clear that Lively is the real reason for that, and Lively needs to be a 30 minutes per guy next year. Gafford gets paid too much for the type of role that's left over, because some (maybe a lot) of those other 18 minutes need to go to a Kleber type in order to stretch defenses, guard with more switching, etc - all the things we talk about here all the time.  But, you do need a Gafford TYPE around for the games Lively misses or the odd night he gets in foul trouble. You know, just in case. But again, Gafford, while obviously not in the same class as Lively, is better than THAT role, and certainly gets paid more than a guy in that role should.

So, is there a way the Mavs can A) move Gafford for less money returning (for DJJ purposes) while also B) picking up a good replacement for him at 3rd center at minimum or maybe BAE salary level, and MAYBE even C) recoup some draft capital along the way?

I would be open to that type of thing, personally. It would obviously require identifying the right guy (better than McGee, for example).

(05-21-2024, 02:03 PM)mvossman Wrote: I think this makes a lot of sense from an asset management perspective.  But I don't think you can generate enough money for DJJ in a Gafford trade unless its a full salary dump.  I don't think you consider that unless you can get a first, and I am skeptical you are going to be able to do that.  

What might make sense is to do a Timmy salary dump, trade Gafford for a 6th man, sign DJJ and then pickup Bitadze for the tax MLE.

(05-21-2024, 02:03 PM)mvossman Wrote: What might make sense is to do a Timmy salary dump, trade Gafford for a 6th man, sign DJJ and then pickup Bitadze for the tax MLE.

(05-21-2024, 02:03 PM)mvossman Wrote: I think this makes a lot of sense from an asset management perspective.  But I don't think you can generate enough money for DJJ in a Gafford trade unless its a full salary dump.  I don't think you consider that unless you can get a first, and I am skeptical you are going to be able to do that.  

What might make sense is to do a Timmy salary dump, trade Gafford for a 6th man, sign DJJ and then pickup Bitadze for the tax MLE.

(05-21-2024, 02:07 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Your instincts on value are at least as good as mine, but...didn't the Mavs just pay a first for Gafford? I mean, I know their cost was a pick swap with OKC (actually much more valuable than most firsts that change hands, but that's a different conversation), but they did that so OKC would send WAS a first, no? 

If he was worth a first at the deadline, and he has been more in the spotlight ever since, having praise heaped on him (some of it actually earned, at times), why, now, would you be skeptical that he's worth a first? Are you saying the Mavs made a bad deal?

(05-21-2024, 02:11 PM)omahen Wrote: If Mavs make space for normal MLE, they won't have tax MLE to spend

(05-21-2024, 10:12 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Another thing I’m struggling with in some of the proposals that ship out THJ for air is we are making a trade to stand still (retain Jones).  Teams in our position tend to use outgoing assets to upgrade somewhere, not stand still.  It feels like THJ and something should be used to maximize the roster as opposed to creating space to just keep DJJ.

(05-21-2024, 03:34 PM)Moviemavguy Wrote: Gafford hasn't played well in the playoffs yet?  He averaged 11 pts, 7.5 rbds and 2 blocks on 61% shooting vs OKC. 

Good grief, I knew there was a reason I don't post here.  Just a bunch of nonsense.

(05-21-2024, 02:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Another thing I'll add about Gafford:

While I hope he's an impact player here next season, I'm really worried about him taking time from Lively, and I think that in the correctly sized role (relative to Lively), Gafford is probably the most likely guy on the roster to be "not worth his contract" moving forward. To me, that means that he's potentially much more valuable this summer than he will be for the next 1 1/2 years. Obviously, he'll be an expiring contract at the deadline the year after next, so it's not a death sentence to keep him or anything, but I don't look at this situation in Dallas for him and imagine he'll look like an asset at that remuneration level by the end of his time here, and I suspect he and his agent might WANT to move on soon (if Kidd does the right thing with Lively). I hope that makes sense.

Or, maybe Lively gets hurt in training camp and Gafford being here is a Godsend. Who knows?

(05-21-2024, 03:53 PM)Knutsen Wrote: Two thoughts on this.

First, we could also try to dump Kleber to a team with cap space. I know, we love him and he‘s holding up the well-established German guy from Wurzburg tradition - which is a beautiful city about an hour away from me by the way - but in reality he doesn’t fit Luka‘s timeline and is far too unreliable from an injury perspective for the 11 million he costs us, for example compared to DJJ. That way we keep Hardaway‘s contract until the deadline, where it will reach it‘s highest trade value and could get us a nice asset from a team that changes from trying to win the championship to trying to win the lottery midseason.

Second, I feel exactly the same about Lively needing 30+ minutes to maximize his growth gradient. But what if he‘s coming back from the offseason ready to get 10 of those minutes at power forward next to Gafford in the role of Kleber? Similar to Wemby or Chet, who are sometimes playing the four, but without their ballhandling tasks and more in a stay in the corner and stretch the floor kind of role? Problem solved, you can play physical and athletic for 48 minutes at center with Gafford and Lively each getting 30 minutes per night.